Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
I'm suggesting it for the benefit of the judges, not the rider. They want to reward a piaffe done in that way, so change the judging guidance, and then no-one can complain.
Anyone want a thread for the Olympic dressage live?
- Thread starter milliepops
- Start date
I'm suggesting it for the benefit of the judges, not the rider. They want to reward a piaffe done in that way, so change the judging guidance, and then no-one can complain.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
but if that is going to be considered correct how will they mark the ones who do lower ..the ones who lower cant take such high passagey steps so will they be penalised
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
I don't have an answer to that- but they already don't get 10s, and I wouldn't have thought it's on the basis of just having no lowering of the quarters?
I am not an expert on piaffe in any way, but it seems like the less expressive but more technically correct piaffes are not getting 10s? So perhaps something could be included in the guidelines about expression/elevation?
I am not saying this is correct, btw, but just that if the judges view Isabelle Werths' piaffe as worthy of a 10, the guidance could somehow be updated to reflect this?
I think it would be interesting if someone who is not a "name" could produce the same kind of piaffe, and whether they would be marked in the same way?
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
i doubt it, parcival used to piaffe in the same way and used to get quite good marks but i dont know if he got 10 s.....BR s piaffe had a lot to like, rhythm, even paces, height, acceptance of the bit, almost on the spot ,so i would say it deserved 9.5..
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
There was an American rider a couple years ago on a big Gelderland who had a similar passage/piaffe to Bella Rose. I’m blanking on the names of horse and rider. But she did very well. Wasn’t a big name either until she started winning things. Horse was either home bred or brought on by herself as a youngster. Kind of a one horse stable situation. I think she got a bronze in Rio. The horse had an effortless, elevated passage and he effortlessly moved into piaffe which looked like a passage-in-place. Don’t know if she got 10s for it, but given her high scoring tests, she did alright.
palo1
Well-Known Member
yeah, it was drivel at timesi thought John Kyle had some very useful snippets to impart, I had a little lightbulb moment when he pointed out that the left canter piri comes off a turn and the right off a straight line, for instance... so obvious when you look at it like that.
in fairness she probably knows herself that she's not a dressage specialist but the itchy bed type stuff was pointless filler IMO.
It is exactly those sort of snippets (John's) that are enormously interesting and helpful for anyone trying to train a horse. For some reason I think a lot of us just think so much more about the execution of the movement rather than the approach (at least in that sort of detail) and it definately makes a difference. I have got beggar all experience but it really makes sense to me!
TheMule
Well-Known Member
Verdades? KWPN with a bit of hackney blood in the back breeding.
Agree that he piaffed is a similar way
Caol Ila
Well-Known Member
Yeah, that’s him. I was suffering from a serious brain fart. We were having the same discussions about correct piaffe when he was competing, especially on COTH forum. He looked lovely and made it look easy, but no lowering of quarters. I agree that the FEI should clarify their standards. It seems like riders with correct (pre-levade anyway) but less expressive piaffes are scoring lower than a bouncy, expressive piaffer like Bells Rose or Verdades, but their hind end doesn’t lower.
Gloi
Too little time, too much to read.
What are you seeing for those amongst us who can't watch.
palo1
Well-Known Member
Well, there are some horses that have got seriously squished heels (by barefoot standards) and a variety of interesting very wide, flat shoes as well as some that look like a form of heartbar; it's quite hard to see details because of the surface. Just about every horse I looked at/noticed had a decent depth of hoof capsule with some really lovely feet (even with the squished heels!) - very few flat feet, and some horses had some additional bits of metal on one side of a shoe or other (as Lucinda said, to help provide a proper foot balance...). Really interesting in fact and I wouldn't quibble or want to start a debate about olympic horse's footcare/shoeing tbh but it is interesting to look at lots of top performing horse's feet. The shots were pretty quick and limited however so please don't draw any particular conclusions from my observations lol!!
Kat
Well-Known Member
Has anyone worked out the effect the different qualifying system has had and whether different riders would have got through if it was just too scores?
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
The lowest score to go through was 72%- the lowest person on an automatic score going through went through on 73% so I think not, but I will check properly!
ETA: as far as I can work out, no-one missed out who would have otherwise gone through?
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SpotsandBays
Well-Known Member
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
Yeah for sure. I've always found it interesting to watch but now finally having a horse at the stage of attempting most of this stuff, the ring craft and preparation is utterly critical and endlessly fascinating to me. it's what makes the difference between *meh* and *wow* in the performance that is independent of the level of horsepower the rider has.It is exactly those sort of snippets (John's) that are enormously interesting and helpful for anyone trying to train a horse. For some reason I think a lot of us just think so much more about the execution of the movement rather than the approach (at least in that sort of detail) and it definately makes a difference. I have got beggar all experience but it really makes sense to me!
palo1
Well-Known Member
Yes and it can explain to people like me who are not and probably never will be riding those movements, why some less than spectacular or flashy horses get really good marks where the 'Wow' ones might not. Of course there are so many variables but it is absolutely fascinating from even a 'general' riding perspective. In everyday riding it completely helps to explain why some people end up in a right pickle, for example trying to open a gate from in the saddle and why others do it so neatly!
Like all 'super-skills' so much of the success of execution is in the depth of planning. If I ever ride any of my horses again, this will have been a great take-home message from watching these riders 
fetlock
Well-Known Member
Anyone who watched this weekend have any predictions for the final individual medal placings from what they've seen so far?
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Just watched Charlottes test , lovely wonderful harmony and such trust from a young horse ,horses don’t go like that unless you treat them right the whole time .
Mule
Well-Known Member
Where did you watch it? I can only find short clips online. Did you have to get discovery?
Kat
Well-Known Member
https://www.facebook.com/groups/eventingukfb/permalink/4096726453713869/?sfnsn=scwspmo
That takes you to the full test
Mule
Well-Known Member
Excellent, thank you
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
ooh a swap around for the Spanish team ahead of the GPS
https://eurodressage.com/2021/07/26...yal-replaces-sorento-olympic-team-competition
https://eurodressage.com/2021/07/26...yal-replaces-sorento-olympic-team-competition
Parrotperson
Well-Known Member
ha! "Officially Sorento is not sound". Meaning what exactly? They like the other horse's chance a lot better?
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Or the horse is just not sound ?
Parrotperson
Well-Known Member
well indeed. Thats the problem with the team vet doing the certification isn't it. It should be looked at by an independent vet. Keeps things fairer.Or the horse is just not sound ?
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
haha that's definitely the tone in the article isn't it
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
while we're here the start list for tomorrow is up, looks like they are likely to get a dump of rain
first 2 groups have times and then there's a gap while they allocate times to the final group. the start time is 9am, but BEF seems to be saying BBC coverage is not starting until 9.30... i am skeptical about whether they really will cover the whole thing and think it will be scrambled in with the other sports so i'm going to get back on discovery i think...
https://eurodressage.com/2021/07/26/starting-order-2021-olympic-grand-prix-special
first 2 groups have times and then there's a gap while they allocate times to the final group. the start time is 9am, but BEF seems to be saying BBC coverage is not starting until 9.30... i am skeptical about whether they really will cover the whole thing and think it will be scrambled in with the other sports so i'm going to get back on discovery i think...
https://eurodressage.com/2021/07/26/starting-order-2021-olympic-grand-prix-special
CanteringCarrot
Well-Known Member
Yes, I think that would be better.
Kat
Well-Known Member
Ooooh that article hints at a suspicion that it is tactical
Parrotperson
Well-Known Member
haha that's definitely the tone in the article isn't it
that was always going to be the problem with this wasn't it? Its a silly change imho. Why not just let 4 compete, three best scores to count?
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
I'm with you there, i really feel for the travelling reserves, why not have them ride having schlepped all the way over there.