Badminton XC!

[WandaMare]

I'm quite sure if OT turns into Mother Theresa and starts handing out food to the homeless there'll still be people gunning for him.

Yes maybe, but not the ones that matter.

 

[NinjaPony]

Personally I think they should hit riders where it hurts-in the pocket. I would imagine that if fines were given out for warnings like that, it would make riders think twice about flouting the rules under pressure.

 

[Nicnac]

Haven't commented before but think it's useful to look at the FEI warning log. OT has had 2 VERBAL warnings - no yellow cards (in FEI events). Other riders on there have done far far worse, but not placed nor are high profile nor world number 1 so pass under the radar.

Last week he won Kentucky and was placed on his second horse; everybody was so so pleased for him and basked in the glory of a British win.

Yesterday he placed 2nd and 5th at the biggest event in the world under enormous pressure. His horses kept jumping well Saturday in really tough conditions, they looked and jumped really well yesterday.

He's apologised for overuse of the whip but guess some think he should be wearing sack cloth and ashes?

I went XC training early this morning - I am but a really ****e amateur - it was seriously hard work in the heat. Those Badminton horses were all uber fit.

 

[be positive]

Glad they’re fine. His neck on impact looked nasty and he looked shocked afterwards. I was walking the course backwards. Shame then, I wonder what happened to make them fall so spectacularly over a relatively simple fence? He seemed to catch a leg but not sure.

Just before he fell.

That is almost like a racing fall, the horse didn't get his landing gear in the right place, his back end has gone too high, momentum takes over and the back end almost goes past the front so landing too steeply to recover, he was lucky to get up and walk away without an obvious injury although he did look shocked, on tv it looked as if he slightly misjudged the fence and slightly dived at it, he certainly never looked tired.

 

[Mooseontheloose]

Sorry but thats not really fair. How he rode on Saturday was clearly wrong. He pushed those horses when they were already giving their all.
As hes said his competitive nature got the better of him.
He is arrogant As How he behaved after the show jumping and the interview afterwards showed.
Would you prefer nothing was said about it and riders like him are allowed to thrash horses round in the hope of winning?

Your reply is silly. I wouldn't prefer it if nothing was said that was not the point of my post. If he's arrogant that's irrelevant, there are lots of top sportspeople who probably aren't the nicest.
I would not judge him on his personality unless I knew him. However there seem to be lots of posters who feel free to comment on his personality and also make false comments on this board. That's an arrogance in itself.

 

[popsdosh]

Sorry but thats not really fair. How he rode on Saturday was clearly wrong. He pushed those horses when they were already giving their all.
As hes said his competitive nature got the better of him.
He is arrogant As How he behaved after the show jumping and the interview afterwards showed.
Would you prefer nothing was said about it and riders like him are allowed to thrash horses round in the hope of winning?

How arrogant is that reply . How do you know those horses were giving their all,you werent riding them to state the obvious!
They both came out fresh on sunday which is more than could be said for some! He got the lowest sanction he could for what had transpired as I see on another post you think he should be banned for 3 warnings well you obviously arent aware of the FEI disciplinary system that is in place and of course they could have stopped him on course which is another sanction that is used when needed. Obviously some of the riding club riders know better than the experienced top end riders who make up the ground jury.

 

[Sandstone1]

Your reply is silly. I wouldn't prefer it if nothing was said that was not the point of my post. If he's arrogant that's irrelevant, there are lots of top sportspeople who probably aren't the nicest.
I would not judge him on his personality unless I knew him. However there seem to be lots of posters who feel free to comment on his personality and also make false comments on this board. That's an arrogance in itself.

Sorry but a forum is for discussion. I dislike seeing horses thrashed for money. Im not a fan of racing but at least there is clear punishment for whip happy jockeys.
Oliver Townend is arrogant or at least gives a very good impression of it.
Yes hes apologised for it.
Only time will tell if hes learnt from it.

 

[milliepops]

Personally I think they should hit riders where it hurts-in the pocket. I would imagine that if fines were given out for warnings like that, it would make riders think twice about flouting the rules under pressure.

He was fined at Kelsall. Rule 4.7 as mentioned above which relates to substitutions.

here's the BE Disciplinary list. The FEI also have a yellow card list which is easy to find via google.
https://www.britisheventing.com/asp...itemTitle=Sporting+Regulations+and+Discipline

 

[Goldenstar]

Actually I think this thread is pretty balanced and fair to OT.
He infringed FEI rules on excessive use of the whip. He was sanctioned. So there WAS a problem with how he rode. People are disappointed about that because he is at the very top level of the sport and is therefore a role model to many.

Maybe the terrible riding at grassroots has something to do with the examples set at the top!

My local SJ venue (unaff) is really strict and has warned, disqualified and even banned a number of kids over the years for excessive use of the whip or for losing their temper. I have seen parents flip out over it and rant at the show secretary but actually I think strict enforcement of all horse welfare rules is totally rhe right thing to do at all level of the sport.

You don’t see people at the top riding with terrible positions and in a completely unbalanced way you just don’t .

 

[Sandstone1]

How arrogant is that reply . How do you know those horses were giving their all,you werent riding them to state the obvious!
They both came out fresh on sunday which is more than could be said for some! He got the lowest sanction he could for what had transpired as I see on another post you think he should be banned for 3 warnings well you obviously arent aware of the FEI disciplinary system that is in place and of course they could have stopped him on course which is another sanction that is used when needed. Obviously some of the riding club riders know better than the experienced top end riders who make up the ground jury.

I would disagree that both horses came out fresh. Yes the first jumped clear but the second didnt and looked tired. yes im aware there are rules in place to stop riders on the course. Sadly the very experienced ground jury in their wisdom did not stop him although I think they should have done.
He should have been disqualified and in my opinion if he does it again should be banned for life.
I really dont care if you agree or not. I dont care if its a four star rider or a riding club rider animal abuse is not on.

 

[popsdosh]

I would disagree that both horses came out fresh. Yes the first jumped clear but the second didnt and looked tired. yes im aware there are rules in place to stop riders on the course. Sadly the very experienced ground jury in their wisdom did not stop him although I think they should have done.
He should have been disqualified and in my opinion if he does it again should be banned for life.
I really dont care if you agree or not. I dont care if its a four star rider or a riding club rider animal abuse is not on.

I guess you dont ride then?

 

[Sandstone1]

I guess you dont ride then?

Yes, I do and have done for forty years. Whats that got to do with it?

 

[popsdosh]

Yes, I do and have done for forty years. Whats that got to do with it?

Everything! work it out.

 

[lannerch]

He was fined at Kelsall. Rule 4.7 as mentioned above which relates to substitutions.

here's the BE Disciplinary list. The FEI also have a yellow card list which is easy to find via google.
https://www.britisheventing.com/asp...itemTitle=Sporting+Regulations+and+Discipline

Very interesting thanks for the link. Pippa Funnell has a yellow card ( a worse offence) where is the furore for that ?
And it just shows how Chinese whispers start, how the substitution rule break has been changed to a whip offence.

 

[milliepops]

Yup lannerch :/

They used to publish the disciplinaries in the BE magazine. I don't know if that's still the case, been out of the sport too long.

 

[lannerch]

It’s not in the be life magazine all members get or certainly not in the issue I have looked at. Was it not in eventing mag though that you have to subscribe to, and I no longer do.

 

[Sandstone1]

Everything!

So you think riding is animal abuse?
Or were you trying to say that if i didnt ride I didn't know what I'm talking about?
No t really sure what you mean to be honest.
Just so you know, yes I ride and have owned a fair few horses and ponies over the years.
Certainly I dont ride at Oliver T level and have never had any desire to. That doesnt mean I cant comment on what i feel was a awful display of cruelty.
Im certainly not alone in being disgusted by it and that he got away with it.

 

[popsdosh]

So you think riding is animal abuse?
Or were you trying to say that if i didnt ride I didn't know what I'm talking about?
No t really sure what you mean to be honest.
Just so you know, yes I ride and have owned a fair few horses and ponies over the years.
Certainly I dont ride at Oliver T level and have never had any desire to. That doesnt mean I cant comment on what i feel was a awful display of cruelty.
Im certainly not alone in being disgusted by it and that he got away with it.

Some would describe riding as horse abuse ,I guess you dont?
Clearly the ground jury didnt agree with you ,so are you saying they are wrong ? He would have been pulled up on course if he was doing what you say he was. He hasnt got away with anything !
I hope you see what I am getting at, it is perception. It is why we have ground juries that take care of disciplinary issues rather than leaving it to the masses who dont always know the full story.

 

[only_me]

and that he got away with it.

But he didn’t get away with it - he was given a verbal warning. And he has apologised. And it was definitely NOT an “awful display of cruelty”. What a weird statement to make.

You are sounding like a petulant child who didn’t get their own way - grow up. Maybe accept that the ground jury know better than you. They felt that the warning was sufficient to the crime. He doesn’t need to be hung drawn and quartered by people online.

Stop spouting hatred, I doubt you will be happy unless he hands over all his horses to the rspca.

 

[Sandstone1]

Clearly the ground jury didnt agree with you ,so are you saying they are wrong ? He would have been pulled up on course if he was doing what you say he was.

Obviously, I feel the ground jury was wrong. yes he should have been pulled up.
I have no idea why he wasnt.
Its not just me saying what he did was wrong.
Read the thread, Listen to what Ian Stark said in his interview with Claire Balding.
Even read Oliver Townends own statement.
Remember, public opinion counts.
No idea what you are trying to say in thinking I dont ride, maybe trying to say I dont know what im talking about?
To be honest I really dont care what you think. What I do care about is animal abuse in the name of sport.

 

[Sandstone1]

But he didn’t get away with it - he was given a verbal warning. And he has apologised. And it was definitely NOT an “awful display of cruelty”. What a weird statement to make.

You are sounding like a petulant child who didn’t get their own way - grow up. Maybe accept that the ground jury know better than you. They felt that the warning was sufficient to the crime. He doesn’t need to be hung drawn and quartered by people online.

Stop spouting hatred, I doubt you will be happy unless he hands over all his horses to the rspca.

Dont think its me that needs to grow up.
Yes it was cruelty. What else would you call being repeatedly hit with a stick?
Peop!e can have different opinions to you you know.
Just because you appear to be the OT fan club doesnt mean everyone is.

 

[only_me]

Dont think its me that needs to grow up.

Not even worth the effort now. You go on being angry and cross at the horrific display of animal cruelty that he did and decide that the ground jury and FEI officials are wrong. And you are right. After all, the ground jury were there and you saw it on tv, so you must be right.

 

[WandaMare]

So you think riding is animal abuse?
Or were you trying to say that if i didnt ride I didn't know what I'm talking about?
No t really sure what you mean to be honest.
Just so you know, yes I ride and have owned a fair few horses and ponies over the years.
Certainly I dont ride at Oliver T level and have never had any desire to. That doesnt mean I cant comment on what i feel was a awful display of cruelty.
Im certainly not alone in being disgusted by it and that he got away with it.

'a awful display of cruelty', no, that is OTT in this case. You can't say you know better than the ground jury at Badminton, you have to give them some credit and respect for what they do. I certainly think that talking about a life ban is an extreme view considering what actually happened. Oli has received a warning and apologised. He didn't get away with it at all, he has received a very high profile official warning which will have some impact his career, and now must prove to people that he has learnt his lesson.

 

[Sandstone1]

But he didn’t get away with it - he was given a verbal warning. And he has apologised. And it was definitely NOT an “awful display of cruelty”. What a weird statement to make.

You are sounding like a petulant child who didn’t get their own way - grow up. Maybe accept that the ground jury know better than you. They felt that the warning was sufficient to the crime. He doesn’t need to be hung drawn and quartered by people online.

Stop spouting hatred, I doubt you will be happy unless he hands over all his horses to the rspca.

So why did he apologise if he didnt do wrong????

 

[popsdosh]

Obviously, I feel the ground jury was wrong. yes he should have been pulled up.
I have no idea why he wasnt.
Its not just me saying what he did was wrong.
Read the thread, Listen to what Ian Stark said in his interview with Claire Balding.
Even read Oliver Townends own statement.
Remember, public opinion counts.
No idea what you are trying to say in thinking I dont ride, maybe trying to say I dont know what im talking about?
To be honest I really dont care what you think. What I do care about is animal abuse in the name of sport.

Dont get on a horse then as that is abuse as well just at a different level!
He wasnt pulled up because what happened did not warrant it as shown by the ground juries action he was not even given a YC ,please show me evidence of an experienced event rider who thinks he should have been.

 

[Sandstone1]

'a awful display of cruelty', no, that is OTT in this case. You can't say you know better than the ground jury at Badminton, you have to give them some credit and respect for what they do. I certainly think that talking about a life ban is an extreme view considering what actually happened. Oli has received a warning and apologised. He didn't get away with it at all, he has received a very high profile official warning which will have some impact his career, and now must prove to people that he has learnt his lesson.

Yes, if it had been the first time. It wasnt. just hope its the last time.

 

[popsdosh]

So why did he apologise if he didnt do wrong????

Have you never heard 'when your in a hole stop digging' ;-)

 

[Sandstone1]

Have you never heard 'when your in a hole stop digging' ;-)

Why am I in a hole???
Im certainly not the only person to have this opinion.
Where have I said riding a horse is abuse?
The display on Saturday was a disgrace. I dont care if you agree with me or not.

 

[AdorableAlice]

The discussion has plummeted somewhat from the last time I read it.

However, Mr Townend has acknowledged all the points raised and made an appropriate comment. That was very much needed and hopefully at Chatsworth next weekend he will be seen to ride within the rules and according to whatever conditions prevail.

 

[windand rain]

he has admitted it didnt look pretty and was overtaken by competiteness he apologised and was quite humble about it. I know it was wrong of him to try too hard to win without thinking about the horses but give the guy a break I doubt very much he will do it again. Not only that but he certainly isnt the worst offender he is getting flack. Just watch some local level showjumping mostly kids but a large number of adults screaming at them saying kick it, smack it whack it. that is an eyeopener I know 2 wrongs dont make a right but he has learned his lesson. If he hasnt then perhaps a short ban might be appropriate