Badminton XC!

I think you're right. Perhaps we should stop wanting lovely interviews with smiling sportsman (any sport) and actually see what the real feelings are. After all, whether you like OT or not, he's at the top of the sport with a lot of different horses. His dressage test was beautiful, no sign of the horse being frightened or tense - unlike some others.
A lot of people are so media savvy these days that they are anodyne. I can't help feeling how tough OT may be - and I don't know him personally so this is a supposition - that the negative comments he gets must hurt. And it doesn't seem to matter if he has smacked his horse or not, the internet warriors are on his case.
I've no idea how I would behave if I had £255K dangling in front of me. I would like to think I would behave with perfect equanimity as it slipped away but I'm pretty sure I would be stamping my feet and bawling my eyes out.
Incidentally, I think there are one or two horses there that should not have been competing, finished dreadfully tired, had appalling show jumping rounds - as opposed to OT's horses - but no one seems to comment on them.
I'm delighted for Jonelle Price, her round was magic, but if she'd tipped up would she have received this kind of vitriol? As for calling her horse a freak of nature, I think that's a compliment, if a rather gauche one.
 
popsdosh said:
There is no rule regards number ! It is for the GJ to decide what is acceptable and they will have seen more of it than you see on the TV . I think a few are getting mixed up with racing.
Fence judges are encouraged to report any potential abuse and then the officials will watch the round carefully.
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Yes there is, as already posted, no more than 3 times for one incident. I don't think people are getting confused with racing at all.... the rules for racing are quite different.

Page 46 526.3 f).
https://inside.fei.org/sites/defaul...ules December 2017 - changes integrated_0.pdf

After this incident I do actually think there is room for a total number per round rule to be introduced which was what Ian was suggesting yesterday too.
 
mule said:
Perhaps that's the problem? It's hard on the ground jury to make those kind of judgements, particularly at big competitions with big name riders.

I remember during the rollkur furore a lot of people were blaming the stewards in the warm up rings. If they don't have clear directions and support from those in charge it's not an easy decision.
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The ground jury is made up of three very experienced horse people( they will have competed at that level) that probably have a better handle on it than the general public. At least one will be mobile on CC course during the CC most would not think twice about black flagging a rider that was not acting in the best interest of the horse during a round.
 
CoachinaCar said:
The fact that other riders have done wrong does not excuse the way Oli rode. There is no excuse from what I saw. The bay had to make a real effort at the Vicarage V and for his troubles he got three very hard whacks.
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Great post Goldenstar, I think that sums it up for me broadly.

Just on this^. Having walked the course, the point where the bay took the whip some distance after the Vee was directly before the hollow, which was a testing combination with angles more awkward than the TV showed. If I felt my horse not quite on point at the Vee then I might want to check it was attentive on the approach to a complex combination.

I'm not accusing or defending OT, it's not my job. But sometimes there are additional considerations that aren't immediately apparent.
 
ester said:
Yes there is, as already posted, no more than 3 times for one incident. I don't think people are getting confused with racing at all.... the rules for racing are quite different.

Page 46 526.3 f).
https://inside.fei.org/sites/defaul...ules December 2017 - changes integrated_0.pdf

After this incident I do actually think there is room for a total number per round rule to be introduced which was what Ian was suggesting yesterday too.
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As it says it is a principle that has to be taken into account by the ground jury in their decisions it is not a mandatory limit as it is in racing. Then of course the number of times it made contact has to be taken into account
 
Mooseontheloose said:
I'm delighted for Jonelle Price, her round was magic, but if she'd tipped up would she have received this kind of vitriol? As for calling her horse a freak of nature, I think that's a compliment, if a rather gauche one.
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I know which one of the two I would rather rode my horses. JP is not without having a certain reputation within the sport enough said.
 
ester said:
Right, and the ground jury warned him so they obviously considered it an issue.
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A warning is the least of their sanctions available on the day. That is most likely what Oli expected. However the internet warrior experts got out of control and to be blunt its not up to them.
 
Yes, I'm well aware that it is the least of their sanctions, it is still a sanction.

I haven't seen a thread anywhere where people have been calling for a greater sanction TBH, just disappointed in his continued approach to his horses and competition- which he merely confirmed in interview. I do think he stands out because I don't think in my years of watching I have ever seen any of the other great male riders ride the end of an XC to get the time like I have seen him ride it a few times. It certainly hasn't made for great headlines.
 
if whips spurs and harsh bitting were banned then things might be different, and better for all the horses.
 
popsdosh said:
A warning is the least of their sanctions available on the day. That is most likely what Oli expected. However the internet warrior experts got out of control and to be blunt its not up to them.
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Its not up to them no, but public perception is important and he'd be mad to just dismiss what people have said. He's had his warning now, I think the ground jury got it right, he needs to repair the damage to his reputation, and move on. If I were him I would be looking for some PR coaching this morning.
 
I don't like the direction this thread has taken. I wasn't riding that horse, I don't ride it everyday so I can't comment on whether OT rode well or like a bully as some have suggested.

I've seen OT jump brideless and the horses he rides look happy and well cared for. The course jury felt a warning was justified and nothing else. I don't believe caring owners would trust their talented horses to just anyone and I don't think it's possible to consistently compete at this level, and for the horses to keep competing at this level, if your tactics are fear and punishment.

For those who have easily accused these riders, brave enough to commit to this dangerous heart breaking sport, I hope you are never subject to the same criticism.
 
ester said:
Yes, I'm well aware that it is the least of their sanctions, it is still a sanction.

I haven't seen a thread anywhere where people have been calling for a greater sanction TBH, just disappointed in his continued approach to his horses and competition- which he merely confirmed in interview. I do think he stands out because I don't think in my years of watching I have ever seen any of the other great male riders ride the end of an XC to get the time like I have seen him ride it a few times. It certainly hasn't made for great headlines.
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I have had horses with a few riders and out of all of them OT stands above the others IMO both in his care of the horses and his determination to do do best by them . He is blunt and doesnt bullshit some people dont see that as a positive but I do!
Some of the 'in crowd riders' having been there I frankly wouldnt send them a rocking horse.
Take a look at some of the riders given yellow cards a few would surprise you . However they didnt get a hammering on the internet over it.
 
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Some of us aren't blanket slating him. On the thread on Equestrian News I said I thought people were unfairly critical of him and that he'd ridden well and sympathetically lately, and indeed from what I saw when he rode past us at Badminton I thought people were over reacting. But when I saw the video I agreed that he'd ridden too hard and thoughtlessly on this day. He was clearly after the money at all costs, and was not nice to watch. I'm not an Oli basher usually. He's local to me, I've met him and he was a personable guy. I usually root for him, but on this occasion I was very disappointed. An "armchair rider" can have a reasonable opinion, you know.
 
WandaMare said:
Its not up to them no, but public perception is important and he'd be mad to just dismiss what people have said. He's had his warning now, I think the ground jury got it right, he needs to repair the damage to his reputation, and move on. If I were him I would be looking for some PR coaching this morning.
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PR coaching or tell the truth.... It would be interesting to get the unadulterated version of events from all the riders. I've watched rider media training- how to tell the nearly truth!
 
Honey08 said:
Some of us aren't blanket slating him. On the thread on Equestrian News I said I thought people were unfairly critical of him and that he'd ridden well and sympathetically lately, and indeed from what I saw when he rode past us at Badminton I thought people were over reacting. But when I saw the video I agreed that he'd ridden too hard and thoughtlessly on this day. He was clearly after the money at all costs, and was not nice to watch. I'm not an Oli basher usually. He's local to me, I've met him and he was a personable guy. I usually root for him, but on this occasion I was very disappointed. An "armchair rider" can have a reasonable opinion, you know.
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I'm the same, I have supported him many times previously when people have been negative, but he did ride too 'ugly' this time and his warning was fair imo. I'm not knocking him because who's to say how the rest of us would have reacted given the same circumstances. I just hope that having had time to reflect he will accept the warning more gracefully and have the humility to reconsider his approach for next time.
 
Mooseontheloose said:
Well said.
There's more dreadful riding at the average local show, where no disciplinary action is taken, than I saw at Badminton.
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Exactly you horses living horrible lives all over the place in unsuitable conditions belonging to people who don’t realise their horse is lame and keep going you see lame horses will terrible unhealthy muscle development all the time at lower level shows enduring terrible riding .
 
Actually I think this thread is pretty balanced and fair to OT.
He infringed FEI rules on excessive use of the whip. He was sanctioned. So there WAS a problem with how he rode. People are disappointed about that because he is at the very top level of the sport and is therefore a role model to many.

Maybe the terrible riding at grassroots has something to do with the examples set at the top!

My local SJ venue (unaff) is really strict and has warned, disqualified and even banned a number of kids over the years for excessive use of the whip or for losing their temper. I have seen parents flip out over it and rant at the show secretary but actually I think strict enforcement of all horse welfare rules is totally rhe right thing to do at all level of the sport.
 
WandaMare said:
Its not up to them no, but public perception is impoQrtant and he'd be mad to just dismiss what people have said. He's had his warning now, I think the ground jury got it right, he needs to repair the damage to his reputation, and move on. If I were him I would be looking for some PR coaching this morning.
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Actually no he does not .
Unlike many riders Oliver part owns or owns many of his horses he is able to be much more his own man than many many riders .
All Oliver needs to do is keep on the correct side of the rules .
Most of us have a need to be liked I think perhaps he does not certainly not by people who don’t know him .
 
Goldenstar said:
Actually no he does not .
Unlike many riders Oliver part owns or owns many of his horses he is able to be much more his own man than many many riders .
All Oliver needs to do is keep on the correct side of the rules .
Most of us have a need to be liked I think perhaps he does not certainly not by people who don’t know him .
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He also has quite a few sponsors and sells merchandise and equestrian products.

Just seen his apology, perhaps public perception is pretty important to him after all.

He's done the right thing. Time to move on.
 
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Honestly didn’t think that he would write an apology, especially after his interview but I’m glad he did. Could be a PR thing but better than just ignoring the situation. He will have to work hard to repair the damage he has caused to his reputation still but this is a start.
 
Apology

Edit- oops sorry, just seen it's already been posted.

https://www.olivertownend.com/news/apology/

"Having watched my Badminton cross-country rounds for the first time when I got home last night, I’m so disappointed and upset about the way I rode. It didn’t look good and I don’t want to look like that.

I fully accept the warning I received from the ground jury. My competitive instincts got the better of me and I will work hard to improve in this area.

I try really hard to give my horses the best ride possible – I try to be as fit as possible, to be as light as I can be, to sit as still as I can, to get them on the best strides and take-off points to minimise the energy they have to waste. I care enormously about their wellbeing and their welfare.

I feel I have let my amazing team down. I am aware of my position in the sport and of my responsibility to be a suitable role model to younger people, and I apologise to them.

I love my horses – I live for them. I am extremely proud of all four horses – Ballaghmor Class and Cooley SRS, and the two who went so brilliantly at Kentucky, Cooley Master Class and MHS King Joules – and of every horse on my yard."
 
wkiwi said:
I'm cynical. Is he genuine or is it a PR statement because of the backlash?
Time will tell
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I try to take people at face value. I think he comes across well (in general) when not in the heat of the moment, clearly works really hard and seems to be someone who appreciates his position in the sport so I would read this as genuine.
 
wkiwi said:
I'm cynical. Is he genuine or is it a PR statement because of the backlash?
Time will tell
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It may be a PR statement but a straightforward apology that accepts the criticism, takes responsibility and makes no excuses is always welcome and is actually quite rare. There will be people who chuck it back in his face (a quick browse of the comments shows you that) but I think he deserves a lot of credit for this.
 
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