Balance Through Movement Method - Celeste Lazaris

[TPO]

I don't know if something new has been released or stirred up with BTTM, but I'm seeing a flood of UK people reposting and sharing her nonsense, specifically her magical nerve release exercises. I wonder if vets have cottoned on to how easy nerve damage is to fix yet

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I will give you my experience I used a physio that has done the nerve release course with Celeste, my horse is a mild head shaker my vet said he probably has nerve damage from repeated guttural pouch infections, she was with my horse for nearly 2 hours she also showed me some techniques to do at least once a week which I have been doing.

I think its helped a bit it wasn't cheap but it's not a treatment that is meant to be regular thing.

So could this have exploited yes definitely but it wasn't I rate this person as a physio and they have a good eye for things, I like the way they work and they have always been happy to help me with anything I've spoken about.

So I think it depends on who does the course and what they do with it I suppose.

 

[TPO]

I will give you my experience I used a physio that has done the nerve release course with Celeste, my horse is a mild head shaker my vet said he probably has nerve damage from repeated guttural pouch infections, she was with my horse for nearly 2 hours she also showed me some techniques to do at least once a week which I have been doing.

I think its helped a bit it wasn't cheap but it's not a treatment that is meant to be regular thing.

So could this have exploited yes definitely but it wasn't I rate this person as a physio and they have a good eye for things, I like the way they work and they have always been happy to help me with anything I've spoken about.

So I think it depends on who does the course and what they do with it I suppose.

One very important difference between whoever you used and Celeste is that your person is a qualified physio. At the very least, they have an understanding of anatomy which gives them one up on Celeste!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

One very important difference between whoever you used and Celeste is that your person is a qualified physio. At the very least, they have an understanding of anatomy which gives them one up on Celeste!

Exactly and I used her and rated her before she did the course and I think she has used it wisely and hopefully it will help alot of horses. Alongside what she already does very well.

 

[Reacher]

I don't know if something new has been released or stirred up with BTTM, but I'm seeing a flood of UK people reposting and sharing her nonsense, specifically her magical nerve release exercises. I wonder if vets have cottoned on to how easy nerve damage is to fix yet

Shame people parroting her theories/methods on FB aren’t aware of the posts on the COTH thread about her falsely claimed qualifications , about secrecy about the nerve release technique, and reports of horses being injured from the techniques.

I wonder why CLL doesn’t involve someone respected / with an academic track record like Hilary Clayton and publish some results…..

(Oops just realised I wrote Hilary Clinton!)

 

[Fieldlife]

Exactly and I used her and rated her before she did the course and I think she has used it wisely and hopefully it will help alot of horses. Alongside what she already does very well.

AFAIK there’s only one U.K. equine physio who’s also done Celeste’s training. And her name starts with a Y and she’s very good IMO.

 

[Fieldlife]

I don't know if something new has been released or stirred up with BTTM, but I'm seeing a flood of UK people reposting and sharing her nonsense, specifically her magical nerve release exercises. I wonder if vets have cottoned on to how easy nerve damage is to fix yet

I don’t think you have the right details above.

AFAIK, Celeste has recently shared video guidance for how to do the pillar 1 part of her rehabilitation exercises. Something that was previously behind a paywall. This is a basic but not simple or easy to do well, in hand exercise.

Nothing to do with NERVE release. AFAIK that’s a separate aspect that some bodyworkers (only one U.K. one) have done via an in person training course with Celeste.

There is also an in progress online nerve release course run by Celeste, but I think it’s a lengthy course and people be 3-6 months at least from finishing it.

 

[TPO]

I don’t think you have the right details above.

AFAIK, Celeste has recently shared video guidance for how to do the pillar 1 part of her rehabilitation exercises. Something that was previously behind a paywall. This is a basic but not simple or easy to do well, in hand exercise.

Nothing to do with NERVE release. AFAIK that’s a separate aspect that some bodyworkers (only one U.K. one) have done via an in person training course with Celeste.

There is also an in progress online nerve release course run by Celeste, but I think it’s a lengthy course and people be 3-6 months at least from finishing it.

You better tell that to her followers who are posting all over Facebook that they are performing "nerve releases" and that the pain to them is worth it to release their chronic (undiagnosed) pain...

It's flipping dangerous. There should be some way of licensing self professed gurus, just a shame you also can't regulate stupidity

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

AFAIK there’s only one U.K. equine physio who’s also done Celeste’s training. And her name starts with a Y and she’s very good IMO.

Yes that's the one lovely Lady

 

[Fieldlife]

You better tell that to her followers who are posting all over Facebook that they are performing "nerve releases" and that the pain to them is worth it to release their chronic (undiagnosed) pain...

It's flipping dangerous. There should be some way of licensing self professed gurus, just a shame you also can't regulate stupidity

Strange I’m pretty connected on FB to BTMM and I’ve not seen people claiming to be doing nerve releases and saying the pain caused is worth it for the longer benefit.

I’ve not seen anyone not trained by Celeste doing nerve releases anywhere. And AFAIK nerve release is not the main part of the BTMM program. The rehabilitation exercises - the pillars are non invasive. They might lead to releases but they aren’t invasive.

I’ve also had my horse treated by the only physio in U.K. that’s done Celeste’s nerve release course. My horse didn’t have any nerve impingement nor any nerve release. He didn’t have anything painful done in and is benefiting from the treatment and the rehabilitation exercises given.

Clearly benefiting to the point my monthly trainer(s) can see a visible improvement unprompted.

 

[TPO]

Strange I’m pretty connected on FB to BTMM and I’ve not seen people claiming to be doing nerve releases and saying the pain caused is worth it for the longer benefit.

I’ve not seen anyone not trained by Celeste doing nerve releases anywhere. And AFAIK nerve release is not the main part of the BTMM program. The rehabilitation exercises - the pillars are non invasive. They might lead to releases but they aren’t invasive.

I’ve also had my horse treated by the only physio in U.K. that’s done Celeste’s nerve release course. My horse didn’t have any nerve impingement nor any nerve release. He didn’t have anything painful done in and is benefiting from the treatment and the rehabilitation exercises given.

Clearly benefiting to the point my monthly trainer(s) can see a visible improvemenunprompted.

That's my point; neither Celeste nor random on the Internet are trained.

This mornings FB post was in a general Scottish horse group page. This person isn't trained directly by celeste but has bought the programme. She's publicly sharing the BS and encouraging others to "take control" and do the same because so called qualified vets, chiros and physios don't know "the truth".

She went on to say that she watched the 4* at Blair and didn't see any "abduction" in the dressage. I'm pretty stumped as to how they were putting one leg in front of the other and moving at all.

Couple with some before and after pictures taken in different poses and from different angles/levels. She claims these are before and after doing her first nerve releases...learnt online. I quote "is it better to live with chronic pain or push through it 1 more time". Undiagnosed "chronic pain" at that because they know better than the whole veterinary industry [thanks to bttm]

Celeste has openly written about the pain the nerve releases can cause. Why anyone is letting some self trained quack do that to their horse is beyond me

Same.person also claims to be trained in other LIFECHANGING methods like P-DTR which will male the veterinary industry extinct. She claims to be one of the very few people with enough depth of knowledge to transfer it to horses [& put the veterinary industry out of business]

Edited again to add another quote "physios and chiros are so last decade."

That's just one very recent example of the absolute lunacy Internet self made gurus put out into the world

 

[Ample Prosecco]

You can’t always blame individuals for the idiotic views of those that follow them… but she absolutely invites that kind of follower. So regardless of how skilled she might be as an individual, I would not go near her with a barge pole. Also I accept some professionals may in the recent past not have been aware of how unprofessional she is, but no one can be in any doubt now. Anyone prepared to overlook her conduct is also barge-pole worthy. Perhaps it’s reasonable to keep using strategies you’ve learned but I’d certainly recommend any credible professional should distance themselves from her. And I’d struggle to respect anyone who didn’t

 

[TPO]

but she absolutely invites that kind of follower

Exactly!

What's going to bring idiots, like that fb one, out of ghr woodwork than an unqualified guru telling folks they can "fix" horses themselves and that with all their non existent knowledge and training they know more than vets, physios and chiros.

Heck, a follower wrote on here numerous times telling people it would be better to pay $150 and learn how to "fix" their own horse than get a qualified physio. They recommended this course over hands-on treatment by a trained and qualified individual

You can see how easy it would be to start a cult and have certain types drink the kool-aid!!

 

[Red-1]

Oh no, I thought this was the person @sbloom recommended? So I have hold of the link to the pillar 1 video and have time pencilled in to watch it (it is an hour). I don't know what a 'nerve release' is as I haven't yet watched, so can't comment.

I will be disappointed if I spend an hour on something that turns out to be smoke and mirrors. I *thought* it was going to be a way to help a horse relax and then be able to move more efficiently?

 

[FlyingCircus]

Oh no, I thought this was the person @sbloom recommended? So I have hold of the link to the pillar 1 video and have time pencilled in to watch it (it is an hour). I don't know what a 'nerve release' is as I haven't yet watched, so can't comment.

I will be disappointed if I spend an hour on something that turns out to be smoke and mirrors. I *thought* it was going to be a way to help a horse relax and then be able to move more efficiently?

I wouldn't bother. I watched and it was a total waste of time.

 

[SEL]

Oh no, I thought this was the person @sbloom recommended? So I have hold of the link to the pillar 1 video and have time pencilled in to watch it (it is an hour). I don't know what a 'nerve release' is as I haven't yet watched, so can't comment.

I will be disappointed if I spend an hour on something that turns out to be smoke and mirrors. I *thought* it was going to be a way to help a horse relax and then be able to move more efficiently?

You know the "forwards, down" straightness training starter? Pillar 1 is effectively that. I haven't watched the new video but on some of Celeste's other stuff I thought she explained the "why" of that better than the ST stuff.

I'm not sure all the vitriol on this thread is justified. There's stuff in BTMM I like, stuff I don't, stuff I'm on the fence about - pretty much the same as a lot of the methods that come out with the intent of helping horses.

 

[Caol Ila]

I'm not sure all the vitriol on this thread is justified. There's stuff in BTMM I like, stuff I don't, stuff I'm on the fence about - pretty much the same as a lot of the methods that come out with the intent of helping horses.

The issue is that she hasn't reinvented the wheel here (despite the marketing claims) and her extremely unprofessional behaviour, which has been detailed in both this and the COTH thread. There are trainers who focus on biomechanics and correct posture who have actual qualifications and who are far more professional. Plenty of them.

 

[Fieldlife]

Oh no, I thought this was the person @sbloom recommended? So I have hold of the link to the pillar 1 video and have time pencilled in to watch it (it is an hour). I don't know what a 'nerve release' is as I haven't yet watched, so can't comment.

I will be disappointed if I spend an hour on something that turns out to be smoke and mirrors. I *thought* it was going to be a way to help a horse relax and then be able to move more efficiently?

It is what SBloom recommended. I’d say watch it with an open mind. (I’ve not seen this video, but I’ve seen lots of other BTMM videos).

I’m not really interested in internet hype or vitriol.

I’ve found the pillars taught through BTMM useful.

- Even though I’m familiar with most types of groundwork, and classical in hand work.

- Even though my horse has physio, chiro and sports massage every three months.

- Even though I’ve been around the block a few times, have been a working pupil in a few places, have a BD record with 4 horses, have 40 points at medium etc.

I think it’s an extra piece. Or it has been for us. It’s not the beginning, middle and end of anything though.

Though it’s a bit like an onion / yoga / mediation. There are layers to it, and it’s as much about how you do it and with what mindset and attitude as what movements/ exercises you do.

E.g. Pillar 1 is a lot more than asking horse to lower head etc.

I’d watch the video, enough of it to see if catches your interest.

 

[ester]

the ST version is more than just lowering the head too though

 

[Red-1]

It is what SBloom recommended. I’d say watch it with an open mind. (I’ve not seen this video, but I’ve seen lots of other BTMM videos).

I’m not really interested in internet hype or vitriol.

I’ve found the pillars taught through BTMM useful.

- Even though I’m familiar with most types of groundwork, and classical in hand work.

- Even though my horse has physio, chiro and sports massage every three months.

- Even though I’ve been around the block a few times, have been a working pupil in a few places, have a BD record with 4 horses, have 40 points at medium etc.

I think it’s an extra piece. Or it has been for us. It’s not the beginning, middle and end of anything though.

Though it’s a bit like an onion / yoga / mediation. There are layers to it, and it’s as much about how you do it and with what mindset and attitude as what movements/ exercises you do.

E.g. Pillar 1 is a lot more than asking horse to lower head etc.

I’d watch the video, enough of it to see if catches your interest.

I have watched the video. Will give it a go tomorrow. One thing for sure, the pillar 1, as described, certainly can't hurt.

 

[Fieldlife]

the ST version is more than just lowering the head too though

Yes it is. A lot more. That comment was about earlier posts saying pillar 1 just lowering the head. No comment on straightness training.

 

[SEL]

the ST version is more than just lowering the head too though

It is - so is the BTMM pillar 1

I was trying to point out they were virtually the same exercise but personally I think Celeste explains the "why" better and irrespective of her qualifications she also explains the science as regards the specific muscles.

 

[Red-1]

It is - so is the BTMM pillar 1

I was trying to point out they were virtually the same exercise but personally I think Celeste explains the "why" better and irrespective of her qualifications she also explains the science as regards the specific muscles.

I think both have their merits.

I think Celest explains the why really well. Too well for me TBH, I have no need for quite so much detail into the muscles and their attachments. But I did think it was really clear why horses have difficulties, I never thought of the muscles staying in the 'attack' protective guise and being unable to switch off. I'm not sure why, as the Rider's Pilates with Jess talks a lot about helping muscles that are frequently fired switch off. The neck one, in particular, has helped my neck a lot.

I also like that she is so intent on the just hanging out. When I did some straightness training, I was too keen to move on once I had sort of got the posture in halt, and I lost the point.

I would have preferred to see some video of someone doing it, but then, this was a free sample and I expect of I paid my £££ I would see as much of that as I would wish.

 

[Caol Ila]

I watched it, out of curiosity. There has been too much discussion not to.

An actual video of her working with a horse would have been nice, but if you Google 'Celeste Pillar 1' or anything along those lines, you will find videos of people doing it.

For me, it still isn't anything new. I was taught to teach a horse to lower its head in order to activate the parasympathetic nervous system when I started using Linda Tellington-Jones' work in the 1990s. In other ways, trainers like Mark Rashid have written reams of text about softening and losing the brace. I had a dressage trainer in the early 2000s who was into her biomechanics and focused on getting the horse to soften that top muscle in front of the withers (I forget what it's called). This is not new knowledge. But maybe it isn't as common as I thought.

I'm not 100% sold on her explanations re: anatomy and muscle physiology. I've asked people on COTH to elucidate their take on it in more detail, because there are vets, bodyworkers, etc. populating that forum. Earlier in the mega-thread, I hazily remember someone writing that if a horse completely deactivated its brachiocephalicus, it would not be able to move its front legs. But I've looked for a bit more clarification on that.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Bumping up an old-ish thread here, but what are people's opinions on the Nerve Release Self Study Course which Celeste is releasing? I was always under the impression from previous posts she made that this was her holy grail of bodywork techniques, and that the one qualified person to perform it in the UK had to travel to the US to learn it in person, and was already a certified equine massage therapist...is it truly possible for the average horse owner to safely learn this technique online, through video content? Especially if they have no prior training of any kind of bodywork techniques?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

One of my horses has had the nerve release treatment I would say it's quite in depth Yasmin was working on my horse for nearly 2 hours, although it wasn't continuous she gave him lots of breaks and was not rushed at all it looked alot like what a physio would do.

I would say you would need an understanding of where parts are and an understanding of touch I would think so someone like a trained physio has that knowledge.

Is the course aimed at horse owners to just treat there own horses?

Yasmin sent me some videos of techniques I can do on my horse its mainly palpation of the fascia they are not difficult but it's only a fraction of what is involved.

 

[Miss_Millie]

One of my horses has had the nerve release treatment I would say it's quite in depth Yasmin was working on my horse for nearly 2 hours, although it wasn't continuous she gave him lots of breaks and was not rushed at all it looked alot like what a physio would do.

I would say you would need an understanding of where parts are and an understanding of touch I would think so someone like a trained physio has that knowledge.

Is the course aimed at horse owners to just treat there own horses?

Yasmin sent me some videos of techniques I can do on my horse its mainly palpation of the fascia they are not difficult but it's only a fraction of what is involved.

I believe the course is open to anyone, although it does cost $1500, so might not be affordable for a lot of people.

 

[SEL]

Bumping up an old-ish thread here, but what are people's opinions on the Nerve Release Self Study Course which Celeste is releasing? I was always under the impression from previous posts she made that this was her holy grail of bodywork techniques, and that the one qualified person to perform it in the UK had to travel to the US to learn it in person, and was already a certified equine massage therapist...is it truly possible for the average horse owner to safely learn this technique online, through video content? Especially if they have no prior training of any kind of bodywork techniques?

I've wondered that too. A friend has used Yasmin (the physio who travelled to the US) for years and has always highly regarded her so I can see how BTMM fitted into her toolbox. For "normal" horse owners then I'm not sure.

But then Masterson is aimed at the non techy horse owner and has a big following

So sitting firmly on the fence right now

 

[Miss_Millie]

I've wondered that too. A friend has used Yasmin (the physio who travelled to the US) for years and has always highly regarded her so I can see how BTMM fitted into her toolbox. For "normal" horse owners then I'm not sure.

But then Masterson is aimed at the non techy horse owner and has a big following

So sitting firmly on the fence right now

Same here.

 

[TPO]

Bumping up an old-ish thread here, but what are people's opinions on the Nerve Release Self Study Course which Celeste is releasing? I was always under the impression from previous posts she made that this was her holy grail of bodywork techniques, and that the one qualified person to perform it in the UK had to travel to the US to learn it in person, and was already a certified equine massage therapist...is it truly possible for the average horse owner to safely learn this technique online, through video content? Especially if they have no prior training of any kind of bodywork techniques?

Very dangerous

A lot of what she has posted publicly is factually incorrect and, in some cases, impossible. But if you didn't know any better and didn't know how to apply critical thinking, I'm sure it all sounds very plausible.

The person that I posted about further up this thread who was spamming FB has now set herself up as a nerve release practitioner having "trained" online with Celesete I hope vets are savvy enough not to sign off on those "treatments", if the clients even get etc permission