Boggle- USA bound!

[w1bbler]

If the backing up was not something you did previously then he needs to learn. When rehabbing my ks horse it took a week for her to even do one stride correctly. Without a base line then I would be pleased that he can manage a couple of strudes

 

[ycbm]

On another note wondering if you guys can help. When I back Boggle up (an important part of neuro rehab) He does clear diagonal pairs for the first few strides then goes un cordinated, his front legs kinda lag behind his back legs. In all honesty I'm not sure if he ever did this before or not, I assumed it was an ataxia thing. But then I tried it with my friends arab, and he was totally un coordinated from the start, I couldn't get any clear diagonal pairs from him at all! So now I'm not sure?

He does sometimes back up more than a few strides completely diagonally, but usually when he's putting more effort or a little fired up into it such as if the pig is in his eyesight lol. So I'm also not sure if it's a slight laziness.

So, Q, do your horses back up for more than 3/4 strides with complete diagonal pairs? Or not?

I've had one or two that will run backwards perfectly for 40m but most of them do a few strides then start to twist, go uneven or just stop and refuse to go any further.
.

 

[Cowpony]

I'm currently teaching my new one to do it and she's got no idea! We'll get maybe 4 decent strides in a whole long side of the arena. The rest is a mixture of 4-beat, going sideways, stopping, trying to go forwards........So it's definitely a skill which needs to be learned. I've found a treat after a few good strides does wonders.

 

[Clodagh]

I understand, from dogs, it takes a lot of core strength to back up evenly. They move similarly to horses so may be it’s that?

 

[ycbm]

I understand, from dogs, it takes a lot of core strength to back up evenly. They move similarly to horses so may be it’s that?

When you have a really big light boned horse like mine with extra long dorsal processes behind the saddle you can see clearly just how much effort it is for them to reverse. I used it extensively as one of his rehab exercises in the first few months. He couldn't do one step at first, now 10m is easy.
.

 

[Clodagh]

When you have a really big light boned horse like mine with extra long dorsal processes behind the saddle you can see clearly just how much effort it is for them to reverse. I used it extensively as one of his rehab exercises in the first few months. He couldn't do one step at first, now 10m is easy.
.

In the wild, if spooked they’d spin away rather than reverse, I think? So it isn’t natural really.

 

[DabDab]

Mine will back up quite far evenly but only if relaxed, as soon as they tense up or if they are fatigued then they go uncoordinated. And tbh mine only back up so well because I've practiced it with them quite a bit (much easier to develop/rehab the longitudinal flexibility using reverse than forwards work)

 

[ycbm]

In the wild, if spooked they’d spin away rather than reverse, I think? So it isn’t natural really.

GMTA, about to write the same, it's a very unnatural movement.
.

 

[Trouper]

I suspect most therapists would tell you that what you are going through is all part of the process of dealing with everything that has happened. I don't think recovery is ever a straightforward linear process upwards so don't be too hard on yourself - but you may feel better if you get a better diet on board!!! Mental and emotional healing also needs all the good vitamins and minerals that physical healing does because everything is connected in our bodies.

After her KS op, my girl also found it difficult to back up evenly and in a straight line. As others have said, it is not a natural process - a bit like patting your head and rubbing your tum at the same time - OK for a couple of turns then it all falls apart!!!

I strongly suspect Pepper is picking up on your emotions - they are so sensitive to everything and she sees you at home when your guard is down. You have come back "different" and she is trying to work it all out so just give her plenty of one on one time and some good walks in your wonderful countryside.

I always think the come down from high drama is almost as draining as the events themselves so just keep plodding on and enjoy the time with your friends. I am sure they will help enormously.

 

[Pinkvboots]

When my physio gave me ground work to do backing up was one of the things but she said just literally start with one step back then walk them forwards, she said just build up very slowly and said don't aim for multiple steps back she said 3 or 4 is plenty and always walk the horse forward a few steps before doing them again.

Walking over poles can help as it helps to make the core stronger so backing up is easier, I had a combination of pole exercises turn on the forehand and backing up for Arabi for his rehab.

It's always my go to when his had time off and is a bit week and it really works if you stick to it, you can literally see him change shape in a matter of weeks.

Like with most ground work and lateral work a few good quality moves are better than multiple crap ones.

 

[Snowfilly]

A proper diagonal rein back is something that comes with time and practice, it’s not an easy movement for them and there’s a reason it comes in so high up the scales of training in drsssage so I wouldn’t worry about Bog’s falling apart after a few steps.

I teach a very basic backwards scramble to a voice cue before I hack out in case of fallen trees and the like but a proper engaged back needs a really solid build up and normally start with two steps, then three and takes a few months to get there.

 

[Michen]

Thanks everyone. I did used to do some backing up, in hand work once a week or so. But I honestly can't remember if I ever backed up more than a few strides to notice if he then went jumbled, so I don't know if it's a new thing or not!

 

[teapot]

Most horses I know are uncoordinated after a few initial steps. As @Snowfilly says there’s a reason why it’s not in an intro test, so try not to worry!

 

[SEL]

Thank you! Well it does just sound very pathetic and whiny.

I'm finding the whatsapp group with the divers stressful, think I need to leave it. Or mute it and not be tempted to read. It's amazing how people can go from praising the crew, the boat, agreeing there was no blame to throwing it around so quickly when the dust settles and it seems to be to try and get refunds. It's quite depressing.

My OH was on an Antarctic photography cruise when a lady had a fall and banged her head - unconscious. No one saw the fall so they didn't know if something had happened to cause it or it was just a slip. Anyway there's no medical cover out in that part of the world so they had to return to civilisation and wait for an airlift. Sadly she'd had a stroke and later died. Getting the medical evac took 3 days and OH just shrugged and put it down to one of those awful things that happens on adventure tourism, but a load of guests on the ship (who were all pre warned that itineraries weren't fixed in stone) went back at the tour company for refunds. Someone had died FFS. So yes, exit that group. Horrendous, traumatising and throwing blame around really isn't going to help.

In terms of backwards steps its one of the things I was taught to ask for in an initial assessment before giving bodywork. Anything with back problems (KS, SI) will really struggle and most horses will brace with their heads up and hollow their backs - which you really don't want to encourage.

BabyCob just couldn't when I first asked him (he used the stamp at me with his foreleg the little horror) but with a carrot by his chest and a cob's love of food he can now do about 10 very good paces - but I started with just a couple.

T-touch maze is great for getting them to work out where their feet are too.

 

[Surbie]

Backwards is really hard work to do properly. Mine does a 4-5 and then it gets a bit jumbled or he scoots around sideways. We are working on it, but very slowly so he doesn't start chucking his head up and hollowing. Like @PinkvSantaBoots we're doing this in combination with poles.

I also find that if I eat unhealthly it has a direct impact on my mood - so while I also love pizza and ice cream (and pasta, and cheese, and puddings!), I know it won't help me feel energised and motivated. So maybe there might be a bit of a link between mood and food for you too that is adding in to what you already have going on?

 

[Britestar]

Seemed appropriate.

 

[cauda equina]

Backwards is really hard work to do properly. Mine does a 4-5 and then it gets a bit jumbled or he scoots around sideways. We are working on it, but very slowly so he doesn't start chucking his head up and hollowing. Like @PinkvSantaBoots we're doing this in combination with poles.

I also find that if I eat unhealthly it has a direct impact on my mood - so while I also love pizza and ice cream (and pasta, and cheese, and puddings!), I know it won't help me feel energised and motivated. So maybe there might be a bit of a link between mood and food for you too that is adding in to what you already have going on?

I agree, studies on the gut-brain axis have shown that diet affects the gut biome, which in turn can affect the brain

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Mine backs up a bit noodle-y, but he's 2 and his body often looks like it's pieced together from 3 different horses so...

It is something we work on though, and there is improvement.

My last horse (10 years old, AM+ dressage, hacked, active/reasonably fit) was very consistent in his backing up, but he was strong, and it was something we focused on since the early days. Just doing little sets here and there at first. So it does take strength, IME.

 

[ROMANY 1959]

I used to carriage drive with a big Irish draught cross Gypsy Vaner gelding. We had so much fun. But he never really got the back up thing. And in a carriage too.
we tried for weeks to teach him but one step then legs all over place. Side wards. Stamping rushing forward. So just prayed and hope we never had to back up in the carriage out and about. Boggle may never be 100% back to normal. But from what I’ve seen in his paddock, am sure you will ride him again. Fingers crossed for you

 

[Michen]

Thanks everyone for the advice and info!

Gosh there’s been another shark fatality in the Bahamas. A paddle boarder. This is insane, seems like half of the entire years fatalities from sharks have been there, despite it still being so rare.

 

[Caol Ila]

Thanks everyone for the advice and info!

Gosh there’s been another shark fatality in the Bahamas. A paddle boarder. This is insane, seems like half of the entire years fatalities from sharks have been there, despite it still being so rare.

I'm gonna go out on a wee limb here.... I think you and/or the other people on your boat should at some point seriously consider going to someone known for sensitive, skilled and well-written investigative journalism and tell them your story. Doesn't have to be tomorrow or next week or next month, but if and when you feel like you can. Reading the news, it seems like these attacks are getting more frequent -- whether it's habituation to people, climate change, fishing, etc. affecting their food sources, who knows -- and the media coverage kind of downplays it all. Given the disconnect between what you've said and what I've read in the news, I wonder how many other attacks are more aggressive than the media spin suggests, and how much the Bahamian powers-that-be want to sweep it under the rug because tourism is their main industry, and they don't want to put people off.

Putting my journalism hat on, it's in the public interest to know. If they are saying it's fairly safe to swim with these animals but it actually isn't all that safe, I think people should know and be in a position to make informed decisions about risk. People free solo and BASE jump, so I'm sure many will continue diving with the sharks, but free soloists and BASE jumpers are acutely aware of the risks. Not saying the sharks are as dangerous as that (hopefully not), but perhaps a frank conversation in the shark tourism industry is needed.

I would nominate Outside Magazine. They specialize in outdoorsy stuff, have some excellent writers, and some of their investigative work (they published the whole 'Blackfish' investigation first, before it became a movie) has been top notch.

My second choice would be the Atlantic because they are good at all long form journalism.

Just a few thoughts.

Hang in there. Bog looks happy!

 

[Michen]

Yeah, I’m not sure to be honest. Unfortunately you only have to look at the comments on the articles to see the usual “kill them all” comments from people. And that’s something that’s spouted regardless of if we’ve caused the problem or not.

I don’t know enough about it to know if shark fatalities are consistently on the rise, I suspect not.

Divers being attacked by underwater by sharks is just so rare, when you think of the thousands of people and shark encounters that occur.

As a diver I’ve always felt “safe”. Aware but not uncomfortable. Actually the oceanic white tips occasionally make me feel a little on edge because they are fast and frisky in nature. I’ve felt far more concerned when on the surface as a swimmer.

Ultimately sharks are sharks and they test things with their mouths. We aren’t what they actively hunt or there’d be daily deaths, but even if a shark takes a bite out of a case of mistaken identity, it’s not to say it will then stop as I’ve seen first hand.

 

[Michen]

The media coverage is so different to our incident too. I guess everyone at the beach would have seen and lots of information available.

 

[YourValentine]

Horses and donkeys still kill significantly more people annually than sharks.
But they aren't as headline grabbing or generally quite as gruesome to observe.



This is a really solid resource on shark incidents - https://www.sharks.org/global-shark-attack-file

We kill over 100 million sharks annually, many just for their fins.

I couldn't find a graph from a reliable source on shark attack fatalities / year over time.

 

[Mimsyborogrove]

Horses and donkeys still kill significantly more people annually than sharks.
But they aren't as headline grabbing or generally quite as gruesome to observe.

View attachment 129452

This is a really solid resource on shark incidents - https://www.sharks.org/global-shark-attack-file

We kill over 100 million sharks annually, many just for their fins.

I couldn't find a graph from a reliable source on shark attack fatalities / year over time.

I am no statistician but a very small number of people are exposed to shark attacks compared to flu cancer etc. To me this table reflects the old adage you can make statistics mean what you want.
That said, we are all free to take risks and do whenever we engage in riding a horse, climbing a mountain and so on, it is part of the challenge of life. I woukd not choose to prevent people diving with sharks at all

 

[SEL]

Yeah, I’m not sure to be honest. Unfortunately you only have to look at the comments on the articles to see the usual “kill them all” comments from people. And that’s something that’s spouted regardless of if we’ve caused the problem or not.

I don’t know enough about it to know if shark fatalities are consistently on the rise, I suspect not.

Divers being attacked by underwater by sharks is just so rare, when you think of the thousands of people and shark encounters that occur.

As a diver I’ve always felt “safe”. Aware but not uncomfortable. Actually the oceanic white tips occasionally make me feel a little on edge because they are fast and frisky in nature. I’ve felt far more concerned when on the surface as a swimmer.

Ultimately sharks are sharks and they test things with their mouths. We aren’t what they actively hunt or there’d be daily deaths, but even if a shark takes a bite out of a case of mistaken identity, it’s not to say it will then stop as I’ve seen first hand.

We were warned in Australia to be careful if we were snorkelling or diving near the seal and sealion colonies because they are shark fodder and in a wetsuit human vs seal isn't that obvious to a predator.

Two deaths close together could just be a statistical anomaly - not that knowing your friend / relative is an anomaly makes it any better.

I think its much like us horse riders though. We know we participate in a dangerous sport but until it affects us or someone close to us then we choose to ignore the injury statistics.

 

[AmyMay]

Horses and donkeys still kill significantly more people annually than sharks.
But they aren't as headline grabbing or generally quite as gruesome to observe.

View attachment 129452

This is a really solid resource on shark incidents - https://www.sharks.org/global-shark-attack-file

We kill over 100 million sharks annually, many just for their fins.

I couldn't find a graph from a reliable source on shark attack fatalities / year over time.

The two aren’t remotely comparable.

 

[Michen]

I am no statistician but a very small number of people are exposed to shark attacks compared to flu cancer etc. To me this table reflects the old adage you can make statistics mean what you want.
That said, we are all free to take risks and do whenever we engage in riding a horse, climbing a mountain and so on, it is part of the challenge of life. I woukd not choose to prevent people diving with sharks at all

Even if you took the % of people exposed that results in a bite/fatal attack it would still be an extremely small number.

Those on top of the water are far more “at risk” than those under it. It’s far less easy for a shark to mistake your identity under water, than splashing around above. As divers we are always taught to remain in a vertical position with eye contact on the shark and to redirect pushing down and out on top of the sharks head if needed. Never back away, never kick etc.

 

[tristars]

a yard i was on years ago, of iberian horses, regularly rein backed for 20 - 30 strides, diagonally

personally i would not, usually i do max 5, more often 3 if going good, perhaps 4

 

[TheOldTrout]

A study quoted in The Body Keeps the Score found that survivors of the attack on the World Trade Centre found acupuncture, massage, yoga and emdr were the most helpful ways to cope with their trauma. Can you book yourself in for some acupuncture or a massage?