Boggle- USA bound!

[Titchy Pony]

Oh Michen, no wonder you were so distraught, that sounds terrifying. I'm glad Bog's back to his usual self and bossing the pig around.
I'm completely sure you will not keep Boggle going on longer than is good for him and it sounds like you have an amazing team of vets around you to guide you if needed. For now, he sounds and looks in your video like a happy horse bar that episode. Crossing fingers, paws and hooves here that it was a one off.
Boggle is very lucky to have you. Please give him a HHO hug from us all and tell him to stop scaring you like that.

 

[BallyRoanBaubles]

Oh Michen what a rollercoaster, I’ve just read your latest update and so glad bog is still with you x

 

[splashgirl45]

When I started reading I thought oh no, not now after him doing so well, and then was so relieved to see he is back to normal. We all know you won’t hesitate to do the right thing when necessary and no one would criticise your decision but hopefully that won’t be needed for a long time . Walking around in the barn he looks completely normal to me , lots of good vibes to keep him like that xx

 

[Sandstone1]

What a horrible shock for you. So glad he is still with you and back to his normal self. I hope vets can help a bit more. You have both been through such a lot. Boggle is lucky to have such a good owner.

 

[Trouper]

Arthritic issues are sometimes the weirdest things. You can go from being in agony one day to wondering what all the fuss was about the next. It is a total rollercoaster so all you can do is hang on as you are doing.

You and Bog have all our support and it is good to read that your vets are doing the same. I hope they can come up with some ideas to even out the extremes of symptoms.

 

[ycbm]

I hope having a definitive answer to where the ataxia is coming from has helped, M. I always find it better to know than to wonder, and to know the worst rather than continually hoping for the best and being disappointed. And at least you know what to treat now and can throw everything at it. I'm sorry that even the strength of vibes HHO managed to send weren't enough to get you hacking out together this spring, but he does look fabulously well and happy in that new stables.
.

 

[j1ffy]

Poor Bog, and poor you - that must have been horrible to see your lovely boy so distressed.

We've never found anything but suspect that Indio has something in C6 / C7. He fell twice in summer but in 'explainable' circumstances when spooking, but I had a neuro exam done anyway and all seemed perfect. I then had the saddler out and as I swung my leg over to get on, Indio just crumpled beneath me. It was dangerous for me (on the floor between him and the arena fence, and 4.5 months on the bruising is still coming out on my leg) but worst of all was the look on his face - he had no idea what had happened. I fully retired him there and then and there's no evidence of any neurological problems now he's pottering around the field. I suspect something to do with the weight of a rider created an impingement but who knows.

Not sure why I'm sharing that other than to say that neck issues are weird and unpredictable. It sounds like Bog got himself in a position that tweaked something and then out of it again, thankfully. Fingers crossed you have many more happy years with him, even if it's from the ground. Big hugs.

 

[ROMANY 1959]

Oh my. First few lines of the post and I was tearing up, then I carried on and silent relief passed over me. And I don’t even know you or your gang
on another note, trapped nerves. Well I know about them. Got one in my knee, after a dislocating of it years ago,( horsey injury to me )
now and then it traps itself if I turn on the left leg, then I get pain to my toes, can’t bear weight on the foot, tingling in toes, few min of flexing foot and knee and it pings back. All good. Nowt can be done. Just live with it.
Hope Bog is ok today.

 

[humblepie]

Oh gosh poor you and poor Bog and the naughty piggy as well. Hope all is well today.

 

[southerncomfort]

Nothing useful to add, just wanted you to know that I think Bog is very lucky to have you.

Xx

 

[Jeni the dragon]

Huge hugs to you and Bog! What a roller coaster you're both going through.

 

[Fraggle2]

Sending hugs and the order to have a drink.

We all know you will always put Bog above yourself when the need arises.

 

[alexomahony]

Gosh that sounds scary - I hope you're doing ok. Just here to support if needed. x

 

[Caol Ila]

Poor Bog. That sounds harrowing for you guys. I guess you have a wee bit more infomation about what it might be, but that doesn't make it easy.

 

[teapot]

Oh bloody hell Bog. If it wasn’t so terrifying I’d say he was a fascinating horse!

Have you had all of him xrayed, or just his neck? If you have the money (or space on the credit card), I’d be looking at every single vertebrae just for peace of mind. Just thinking of angles doing the stretches etc and where possible pressure is being applied.


It sounds similar to what my mum has with her back - she’ll move in one specific way and it sets everything off, no feeling in her feet to walk etc, and is wobbly most days now. I regularly tell her if she was a horse she’d be diagnosed with Wobblers!

 

[equinerebel]

Bog the wonder horse

 

[Michen]

I’m just so fried, I slept about two hours of proper sleep and the tears won’t stop.

That fricking fall out hacking… it’s like some torturous loop of if/when/what/why.

And thank you everyone I really appreciate the lovely comments. Boggle is totally fine this morning.

 

[Michen]

Oh bloody hell Bog. If it wasn’t so terrifying I’d say he was a fascinating horse!

Have you had all of him xrayed, or just his neck? If you have the money (or space on the credit card), I’d be looking at every single vertebrae just for peace of mind. Just thinking of angles doing the stretches etc and where possible pressure is being applied.


It sounds similar to what my mum has with her back - she’ll move in one specific way and it sets everything off, no feeling in her feet to walk etc, and is wobbly most days now. I regularly tell her if she was a horse she’d be diagnosed with Wobblers!

Only the neck to be honest..but he didn’t just have a few x rays he had 18 different images taken of different areas of it- twice. I don’t really think there’s much point with x raying anything else? When the vet came out last night she did various tests and his range of movement was really good, he was soft and subtle through his back. He’s muscled over his top line- he looks honestly really damn good.

 

[splashgirl45]

He does look great so try and stop beating yourself up, you have done the best you can and he seems to be enjoying life without the UK mud

 

[teapot]

Only the neck to be honest..but he didn’t just have a few x rays he had 18 different images taken of different areas of it- twice. I don’t really think there’s much point with x raying anything else? When the vet came out last night she did various tests and his range of movement was really good, he was soft and subtle through his back. He’s muscled over his top line- he looks honestly really damn good.

That’s fair He’s always looked good tbh!

Was just a thought as something clearly isn’t right somewhere, albeit it’s irregular. Sometimes a complete picture is better than just different areas (knowing how much imaging a friend’s horse had with KS - the problem wasn’t where they first thought…)

He’s not got stuck or cast overnight has he? That could flare something up.

 

[Michen]

That’s fair He’s always looked good tbh!

Was just a thought as something clearly isn’t right somewhere, albeit it’s irregular. Sometimes a complete picture is better than just different areas (knowing how much imaging a friend’s horse had with KS - the problem wasn’t where they first thought…)

He’s not got stuck or cast overnight has he? That could flare something up.

I’ll defo raise it with the vet. Thank you. No he was totally normal, doing poles, looking good. It was when he did the carrot stretch - an immediate reaction. The irony was I was thinking how damn flexible and good he was seeming with them!

 

[teapot]

BTW I don’t necessarily mean xray the entire spine - just thinking of when he had that first fall… shoulder area and deep muscle could have taken quite a hammering.

He really needs to stop raising your blood pressure though!

 

[nutjob]

My wobbler horse who initially appeared normal suddenly went berserk, I was bucked off and he continued to run round in a blind panic hitting the fencing twice. He fails surprisingly badly on the neurological tests, compared to how normal he looks day to day. Xray’s show only a minor abnormality akin to arthritic changes which the vet says is indicative of vertebral instability rather than static narrowing of the spinal canal. The spinal cord must have been pinched from the position of the neck and/or weight of a rider. I won’t get back on him, it’s too dangerous and seeing him so terrified was awful.

He has been happily retired for about 9 months but I have decided to have him euthanised if he has another of these incidents or if he becomes unstable and dangerous to handle. Yours is not as straight forward but it’s worth thinking on how many, or frequency of these incidents is acceptable based on the impact to the horse and risk for other people involved.

FWIW, my vet has advised not to have steroids injected into the neck until it’s a last resort, she says it could make him worse.

I’m so sorry you are going through this, there’s no easy answer, you’ve done far more than I would have done already it’s just very unfair.

 

[Michen]

BTW I don’t necessarily mean xray the entire spine - just thinking of when he had that first fall… shoulder area and deep muscle could have taken quite a hammering.

He really needs to stop raising your blood pressure though!

I’ll definitely ask them. Other issue is for that they will want him in to the practice and we are under so much snow at the moment with more forecast so think it would be a while before it would be safe to tow (I’d do it in an emergency but not otherwise, last night I didn’t even consider hitching the trailer).

He does… he’s going to end me with stress. Maybe in some ways this is easier because it’s made the idea of him ever being rideable totally go away? I guess that’s why I’m truly so upset.

I am slightly considering a myleogram but again- what’s the point. There’s no other treatment options that could change based on what is found, it would just tell me how likely he was to need to be PTS sooner rather than later I guess. But time will tell me that anyway and in the mean time he’s out today enjoying the sun on his back and living his best life, making friends with pigs!!!

 

[Michen]

My wobbler horse who initially appeared normal suddenly went berserk, I was bucked off and he continued to run round in a blind panic hitting the fencing twice. He fails surprisingly badly on the neurological tests, compared to how normal he looks day to day. Xray’s show only a minor abnormality akin to arthritic changes which the vet says is indicative of vertebral instability rather than static narrowing of the spinal canal. The spinal cord must have been pinched from the position of the neck and/or weight of a rider. I won’t get back on him, it’s too dangerous and seeing him so terrified was awful.

He has been happily retired for about 9 months but I have decided to have him euthanised if he has another of these incidents or if he becomes unstable and dangerous to handle. Yours is not as straight forward but it’s worth thinking on how many, or frequency of these incidents is acceptable based on the impact to the horse and risk for other people involved.

FWIW, my vet has advised not to have steroids injected into the neck until it’s a last resort, she says it could make him worse.

I’m so sorry you are going through this, there’s no easy answer, you’ve done far more than I would have done already it’s just very unfair.

Gosh that’s interesting. I was told steroids is pretty much gold standard for the neck? Why would it make them worse? Thanks for that info I’ll ask. Given he’d had his neck injected then two weeks later had the sudden onset…

Yes for sure if these episodes are frequent or whatnot it’s going to become very clear. i could kick myself as if I hadn’t gone to the barn, and I so nearly didn’t as I was under with work, and sick, I’d have never done that carrot stretch and it wouldn’t have happened!

 

[nutjob]

Gosh that’s interesting. I was told steroids is pretty much gold standard for the neck? Why would it make them worse?

So she said if she saw the xrays of my horse (diagnosed at aged 4) on a much older horse she would interpret that as arthritis and inject steroids being confident of a good outcome. In the case of my horse to see what looks like arthritis at age 4 (coupled with the shocking neuro tests) when he had only been backed and very lightly ridden for 6 months it suggests a vertebral instability and in this specific situation it could go either way. He's comfortable atm and very steady on his feet so she is advising it only if I want to try as a last resort before euthanasia.

I was also thinking about a myelogram but as you say it doesn't change the treatment or the outcome. For my horse it could give a false result as the situation is dynamic. I've never seen him have a problem in the field so I assume he is less likely to put his own head / neck in an uncomfortable position.

 

[Michen]

So she said if she saw the xrays of my horse (diagnosed at aged 4) on a much older horse she would interpret that as arthritis and inject steroids being confident of a good outcome. In the case of my horse to see what looks like arthritis at age 4 (coupled with the shocking neuro tests) when he had only been backed and very lightly ridden for 6 months it suggests that a vertebral instability and in this specific situation it could go either way. He's comfortable atm and very steady on his feet so she is advising it only if I want to try as a last resort before euthanasia.

I was also thinking about a myelogram but as you say it doesn't change the treatment or the outcome. For my horse it could give a false result as the situation is dynamic. I've never seen him have a problem in the field so I assume he is less likely to put his own head / neck in an uncomfortable position.

Thanks that’s helpful! I guess with Bog being 12 it’s a little different with your youngster.

It’s hard for us as owners and the vets not to have all the info, but I agree, when treatment is limited it seems pointless to put them through a diagnostic like that. Different if you want to know if the horse will ever be rideable and make a decision based off that, of course, but I’m not in the boat and it doesn’t sound like you are either (lucky horses).

 

[BBP]

I only have my super limited study of 1, but my osteopath did contraindicate lateral carrot stretches for him (and for BBP too actually)even without seeing the scans and X-rays. He is super duper flexible (can scratch the middle of his own back) but that means less stabilisation of the spinal column potentially. Some of the carrot stretches do take them to pretty extreme ranges of movement.

 

[Michen]

I only have my super limited study of 1, but my osteopath did contraindicate lateral carrot stretches for him (and for BBP too actually)even without seeing the scans and X-rays. He is super duper flexible (can scratch the middle of his own back) but that means less stabilisation of the spinal column potentially. Some of the carrot stretches do take them to pretty extreme ranges of movement.

Is it terrible that I had to google what contraindicate meant- haha!

Thank you, yes I definitely won't be doing that long lateral stretch again, ever. Which ones do you do?

 

[SEL]

Your post on the wobblers FB page suddenly showed up in my timeline and I thought oh fk - you must be all over the place right now.

It does sound like he'll be ok non ridden but that in itself is hard to accept. You have an amazing bunch of vets on board and I hope they can help.

Is there a Tellington Touch therapist around? EPM / neuro is Linda Tellington's specialist subject.