Boggle- USA bound!

[Errin Paddywack]

I saw this years ago in a friend's horse. He was just standing at the side of the ring with her on him and resting a front foot. I was immediately suspicious and it was later proved when he was diagnosed with just about everything you could imagine, navicular, ringbone, sidebone etc. Heavy cob with short upright pasterns. She couldn't keep him pain free so much as she adored him had to let him go.

 

[Michen]

Haha well now I’m depressed! However, this is going to get better or get worse, and neither me or the rescue is going to start up diagnostics at this point.

Time will tell which way things go. If he’s not going to stand up to being a useful citizen for me or someone else then so be it. It was always a question mark with his conformation and history, so other than giving him the best chance I can of success I’m just not going to worry about it.

His feet may simply be thrushy, with the crazy wet/dry/wet weather although they look dry the frogs are kind of cracked and could well have infection under them. I haven’t been aggressive with the red horse products since the Bog drama restarted, which is about when I noticed Dusty’s stance.

 

[tda]

That's fine tho, keep him moving, quick spray with sole cleanse or whatever it's called every couple of days and crack on. He'll soon tell you if he can't cope

 

[ycbm]

Yup, get him moving, it's probably his best chance anyway.
.

 

[GrassChop]

What great pictures of the three of them! They look so chilled!
Don't you dare stop spamming us with them!

I love the pictures too!

 

[BMA2]

I would have a chat with the farrier and go from there...you aren't looking for another rehab horse so maybe he'll have a suggestion. Don't stress x

 

[Northern Hare]

Wow Michen, never a dull moment! The set-up you have sorted out looks fantastic, especially with all the work it took to get it ready to move the horses across to.

That's also some achievement to have met your sales targets 5 months early - in amongst everything else going on, that's some achievement!!

 

[Michen]

Wow Michen, never a dull moment! The set-up you have sorted out looks fantastic, especially with all the work it took to get it ready to move the horses across to.

That's also some achievement to have met your sales targets 5 months early - in amongst everything else going on, that's some achievement!!

Thank you!! The chaos that is my life would have been far simpler to go back to boarding but I truly think this is best for Bog and I at the moment.

Next weekend I am 100% out of here for a couple of days to see some UK friends who are in New York on holiday- I need a break from horses and this.

Pleased about the sales target at least I don’t need to worry about being sent back to the UK lol- one thing off my plate.

 

[Michen]

Pleased with Dusty, he hacked with a friend yesterday and solo today and was totally chilled, on the buckle. Nice not to have his ears in my face.

It’s hard to tell soundness as he feels like such a big gangly wobbly baby, trotting especially. I think I’ll have a true idea once he strengthens up (or doesn’t).

Set up my cameras so now I can spy on Bog all the time! He’s really happy and relaxed. I only see “unusual” behaviour from him now when I rug him (but not groom). A grumpiness with a different kind of eye than usual, still that anger/expression that’s just not normal for him, he’s always a little grumpy about stuff like that but it’s different. He is getting the run of the whole place and seems to love it, particularly having more freedom than the other two He finds trotting in and out of field to barn to run to stall very entertaining.

My friends mum has lent me her condo until June when I move in with another friends daughter. So generous of her, it’s beautiful and sits right on a golf course. I feel very lucky, she’s only met me a couple of times and it’s her second home for six months of the year and extremely kind of her to let me stay there for a bit. Relieved to have somewhere to actually unpack a little! Or at least, remove the bin bags full of clothes from my car

Hope everyone’s having a good weekend.

 

[Caol Ila]

Pure deid jealous of your trails!

 

[Michen]

The best Dusty and I could do with a cute photo we are as gormless as eachother!

He’s got a rather endearing expression though.

Last pic is Bog putting his foot through rail in annoyance because Dusty is getting attention

 

[Michen]

Omg this is the best lol. I have a camera here, one in Bogs stable and one looking out into the pasture. Just discovered I can speak through it called and clicked to Bog and he immediately heard and went out looking, now they are all wondering where my voice is coming from. Didn’t think it would be that loud they would really hear!!

Highly entertaining. Won’t need to watch greys anatomy again.

 

[Caski]

At the risk of hijacking Michen's thread, this horse was performing brilliantly and is about to storm around a 12 mile fun ride full of hunt jumps. About 2 months later he was lame on a circle on hard ground, diagnosed with "navicular" which at the time was believed to be a bone disease. These days we know from MRI that it's almost always soft tissue issues. This stance is typical of a horse with pain in the back half of the foot, known as caudal hoof pain. A great place to go to spot this is anywhere that uses carriage horses for tourist rides. There will always be one or two in the ranks.

View attachment 138640


And two on the same page just from a quick Google of Schonbrunn Palace. I was there 3 weeks ago and there was one absolute shocker and a couple of others around 10 horses.

View attachment 138641

No wishing to hijack but so lovely to be reminded of Woof boots and minimal tack!

 

[jhoward]

Omg this is the best lol. I have a camera here, one in Bogs stable and one looking out into the pasture. Just discovered I can speak through it called and clicked to Bog and he immediately heard and went out looking, now they are all wondering where my voice is coming from. Didn’t think it would be that loud they would really hear!!

Highly entertaining. Won’t need to watch greys anatomy again.

View attachment 138721

I have cameras outside my Grans.. she locked herself out one day
I spoke through the camera to tell her to stay under the porch and I'd get her some help.

Proper freaked her out she was looking for me behind bins hedges the lot

I may confess to having a but of a giggle after the event....

 

[Michen]

Bless my little Bogster, he's having some lightweight alluminium shoes put on right now. Lots of licking and chewing and yawning. First set of shoes since September 2022! I was worried he'd struggle pulling his forelegs for it but he seems totally fine so far.

He's doing really well in general, loving having free rein of his barn set up. He definitely prefers Helo over Dusty!

It's also just started snowing. In May, FFS!

 

[palo1]

Bless my little Bogster, he's having some lightweight alluminium shoes put on right now. Lots of licking and chewing and yawning. First set of shoes since September 2022! I was worried he'd struggle pulling his forelegs for it but he seems totally fine so far.

He's doing really well in general, loving having free rein of his barn set up. He definitely prefers Helo over Dusty!

It's also just started snowing. In May, FFS!

Aw, that is a brilliant update!

 

[meleeka]

Ok you can keep your snow! Hopefully bog’s new shoes make him comfortable.

 

[Michen]

Ok you can keep your snow! Hopefully bog’s new shoes make him comfortable.

Judging by the way him and Dusty set of galloping and bucking when I turned them out after being shod, I think they are both pretty thrilled lol.

About 230 pounds (not even dollars) for two sets of "normal" front shoes. Crazy money to shoe here.

 

[Michen]

Aw, that is a brilliant update!

Thank you, I am really pleased that I've got him happy at least for now, even if it is all progressive. I still have days or moments where I get very distressed/bitter/sad/angry/overwhelmed/guilty about the whole thing, but for the most part I am just enjoying the here and now with him and getting lots of pleasure out of seeing him muck around in the field, come in and out of barn, run, stall as he pleases and being somewhere so quiet where there's absolutely nothing to cause him any stress. I think he's very chuffed he now has his own private barn to run.

Hope you are doing good xx

 

[Emilieu]

Judging by the way him and Dusty set of galloping and bucking when I turned them out after being shod, I think they are both pretty thrilled lol.

About 230 pounds (not even dollars) for two sets of "normal" front shoes. Crazy money to shoe here.

Liking for the galloping and bucking, not for the astronomical price of shoes!

 

[Equi]

I would assume that’s why so many horses are barefoot in the states!

 

[Michen]

Just watched him double barrel one of the horses for absolutely no reason, other than I appeared and the horse had trotted towards me and Boggle took huge offense at that. I don't know what to do, he is much better over the run fences and in general and I thought he was happy and fine,more than fine, he seemed to like Helo but clearly not. It's so hard because Boggle has always been a dominant arsehole and has only ever really been turned out with Bear who he accepted and his arab friend who he wasn't particularly pleasant too but not utterly terrible, so I just don't know if it's Boggle being Boggle or he's channelling his pain and anger to other horses and it's the only way he can express himself.

Other than that he seems so perky, cheeky, Boggle like. Happy to canter aroud and buck and get into mischief. I don't know whether to give it a couple more weeks with ulcer meds (I think it's been two weeks maybe? Maybe 3, so not really long enough to totally clear them up). Or to call it a day.

I just cannot fathom the idea of asking a vet to lethally inject him and end his life, when I can't ask him if that's what he wants. I can't ask him if he's in pain or not. I don't know if the steroids are making him more aggressive, which I believe they can, and I should see the course of them out before deciding or whether I'm prolonging any suffering. It is so, so hard. I desperately want to do the right thing for him whatever that is, but it's just not a clear cut answer.

 

[DizzyDoughnut]

So sorry Bog isn't making life easy for you. Just wanted to say one of mine is like this, absolutely best buddies with his field mate, they play together, sleep practically on top of each other and generally hang about together. But when I'm around he gets jealous if I'm with another horse and will take it out on his mate or if his friend tries to come up to me in the field he goes for him and really means it. He's had to learn that when I say stop, he can't go and be a complete thug to his friend so now he backs off but glares furiously at everyone because obviously everyone should know he is indeed the most important pony to ever live. I then have to distract him and do something nice with him before I leave so he forgets he was angry and jealous otherwise he just takes it out on his mate when I leave.

 

[Michen]

Thank you DD. I guess I just compare to how he was with Bear, which was no doubt dominant but I never, ever saw this kind of behaviour even though they did everything together turnout and all.

The steroids won't be helping any ulcers, so it's catch 22. I am looking at him now happily grazing in the field (with the others giving him a wide bearth), but I just don't want to cause him any suffering, if he is suffering. It feels impossible, of course this is only going to go one way re PTS whether it's now, a few months, before winter, after winter. So a part of me is like well if there's any doubt whether he is ok or not then just do it now, better a day too early, he won't know.

But how, how can I think of ending his life potentially prematurely if he is otherwise his usual self? How am I ever going to be able to make this decision for him? I wish it was more obvious. It sounds sick, but I almost wish for a colic or something where the answer and action would be swift and the decision made for me. How screwed up is that.

 

[Northern Hare]

Even if Boggle had not had the illnesses that he's had in the last year, he would still be a year older, and from my experience horses temperaments do subtly change as they get older. So it's impossible to know without a crystal ball (if only!) if his behaviour is "just him" getting older, or as a result of some discomfort. As you say, he's been tricky with other horses he's been turned out with in the past. I'd personally suggest letting them fully settle into their new regime - they're in a lovely new yard, and have a "new joiner" to the herd which will inevitably upset the balance slightly for a while.

When I lost my lovely horse, I had to make "the decision" and it was so hard, even though on paper it was fairly clear cut. My vet who was super, agreed that in many ways it's more bearable when it's a catastrophic injury, or other situation where there's no debate. Decision is made as there's really no choice. I'm not saying that it's any less horrible to lose a horse like this, I know from experience that is not the case, just that when the decision is taken out of your hands, you're not left in the pts/not pts quandary.

 

[meleeka]

Just watched him double barrel one of the horses for absolutely no reason, other than I appeared and the horse had trotted towards me and Boggle took huge offense at that. I don't know what to do, he is much better over the run fences and in general and I thought he was happy and fine,more than fine, he seemed to like Helo but clearly not. It's so hard because Boggle has always been a dominant arsehole and has only ever really been turned out with Bear who he accepted and his arab friend who he wasn't particularly pleasant too but not utterly terrible, so I just don't know if it's Boggle being Boggle or he's channelling his pain and anger to other horses and it's the only way he can express himself.

Other than that he seems so perky, cheeky, Boggle like. Happy to canter aroud and buck and get into mischief. I don't know whether to give it a couple more weeks with ulcer meds (I think it's been two weeks maybe? Maybe 3, so not really long enough to totally clear them up). Or to call it a day.

I just cannot fathom the idea of asking a vet to lethally inject him and end his life, when I can't ask him if that's what he wants. I can't ask him if he's in pain or not. I don't know if the steroids are making him more aggressive, which I believe they can, and I should see the course of them out before deciding or whether I'm prolonging any suffering. It is so, so hard. I desperately want to do the right thing for him whatever that is, but it's just not a clear cut answer.

Is he suffering though? It really doesn’t sound like he is. By your own admission he’s always been an arsehole with others, so if he were lovely that would be out of character. If it’s not clear what you should do then I vote do nothing! Give the ulcer meds longer (1 month?) and then see what you are left with. You say he’s perky and happy to canter round and get into mischief, so I don’t think you are prolonging any suffering.

Take a step back and do what you said originally, give it time and see how he is.

 

[Michen]

Even if Boggle had not had the illnesses that he's had in the last year, he would still be a year older, and from my experience horses temperaments do subtly change as they get older. So it's impossible to know without a crystal ball (if only!) if his behaviour is "just him" getting older, or as a result of some discomfort. As you say, he's been tricky with other horses he's been turned out with in the past. I'd personally suggest letting them fully settle into their new regime - they're in a lovely new yard, and have a "new joiner" to the herd which will inevitably upset the balance slightly for a while.

When I lost my lovely horse, I had to make "the decision" and it was so hard, even though on paper it was fairly clear cut. My vet who was super, agreed that in many ways it's more bearable when it's a catastrophic injury, or other situation where there's no debate. Decision is made as there's really no choice. I'm not saying that it's any less horrible to lose a horse like this, I know from experience that is not the case, just that when the decision is taken out of your hands, you're not left in the pts/not pts quandary.

Thank you. I totally agree. Having horses is so, so hard

Is he suffering though? It really doesn’t sound like he is. By your own admission he’s always been an arsehole with others, so if he were lovely that would be out of character. If it’s not clear what you should do then I vote do nothing! Give the ulcer meds longer (1 month?) and then see what you are left with. You say he’s perky and happy to canter round and get into mischief, so I don’t think you are prolonging any suffering.

Take a step back and do what you said originally, give it time and see how he is.

I just don't know, he's such a tough, stoic little horse. Even when he barely knew where his legs were in hospital he was bright, cheeky, full of beans. Even when he had pneumonia and was literally at deaths door he just fought and fought and remained cheerful through it all.

I don't want to be one of those people where everyone knows the horse should be PTS and the owner is prolonging it for their own benefit. Gah.

 

[meleeka]

I just don't know, he's such a tough, stoic little horse. Even when he barely knew where his legs were in hospital he was bright, cheeky, full of beans. Even when he had pneumonia and was literally at deaths door he just fought and fought and remained cheerful through it all.

I don't want to be one of those people where everyone knows the horse should be PTS and the owner is prolonging it for their own benefit. Gah.

I don’t think you need to worry. Those on this forum will definitely not allow that!

 

[Snowfilly]

Just watched him double barrel one of the horses for absolutely no reason, other than I appeared and the horse had trotted towards me and Boggle took huge offense at that. I don't know what to do, he is much better over the run fences and in general and I thought he was happy and fine,more than fine, he seemed to like Helo but clearly not. It's so hard because Boggle has always been a dominant arsehole and has only ever really been turned out with Bear who he accepted and his arab friend who he wasn't particularly pleasant too but not utterly terrible, so I just don't know if it's Boggle being Boggle or he's channelling his pain and anger to other horses and it's the only way he can express himself.

Other than that he seems so perky, cheeky, Boggle like. Happy to canter aroud and buck and get into mischief. I don't know whether to give it a couple more weeks with ulcer meds (I think it's been two weeks maybe? Maybe 3, so not really long enough to totally clear them up). Or to call it a day.

I just cannot fathom the idea of asking a vet to lethally inject him and end his life, when I can't ask him if that's what he wants. I can't ask him if he's in pain or not. I don't know if the steroids are making him more aggressive, which I believe they can, and I should see the course of them out before deciding or whether I'm prolonging any suffering. It is so, so hard. I desperately want to do the right thing for him whatever that is, but it's just not a clear cut answer.

I had a gelding who would do that to others if I was around. They were allowed to exist if I did everything to his lordship first but if I fed someone else first or something all hell broke loose - and he got worse when he was moved to a small yard where it was only him and a couple of others because he saw no reason at all to share me.

We know it was jealousy because if someone else went to do them, he never did anything - it was only when I was there. Could you get someone else you trust to sneak in there and have a look and see what happens when you’re not there?

 

[GrassChop]

You've had Helo since last Friday was it? So not even a week. They're going to be establishing boundaries and who's in charge etc and from what you said, Bog hasn't ever been the most welcoming around other horses, so this doesn't sound like it's out of the ordinary.

From what you say, he sounds happy, comfortable and content. I would just be leaving him to enjoy being Bog, carry on what you are doing and stop stressing yourself so much! You'll know if he's not happy.