Bought unseen problems returning

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Jasmine2023 said:
I have been having lessons on one of their horses.
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Then perhaps you can keep doing that until your horse is ready to ride?

Give him some time to settle, do a lot of groundwork, take the pressure off yourself.

In my experience, the kind of horse you're looking for - RDA / bombproof, mother - daughter share types - are made through hard work not something you can buy off-the-shelf no matter how good the horse is in its previous home. Every horse that I have had in that category has been so through a combination of training, management, environment, and the relationship they build with you.

Take my Mimosa, for example. She's teaching my beginner sister-in-law to ride, she will let children climb all over her, and we hack out on the buckle to the pub, I can jump off and have a drink and she will stand like a lamb. But when I briefly put her over at a nearby livery yard, she was so ghastly I had to bring her home in disgrace and buy the yard owner flowers as an apology.
 
anddd....breatheee!!! please don't instantly panic. None of us can be certain of anything except the horse needs turnout and time to settle, especially if he's been through a few hands recently before finding you. I like him. He doesn't need to be the best put together horse and once he's gotten through his panic of moving on from everything he knows as safe and into the hands of lots of strangers I'm sure he will settle down and become a nicer horse who will hopefully in time prove to be safe sane and sensible with a little input from your riding school. The important thing is you give him and yourself time and a chance to see if you're a good match. In a few weeks ask the vet to come back and retry the checks they originally came to do. You will be just fine. You have a good network around you if the riding school is reputable. Together you can work through this and be honest with them how you feel. Hopefully they will be more than happy to help you. If not then that's the point where you need to bring your own help in. No riding school will object to behaviourists coming to help you. It's not the same thing as them giving you riding lessons.
 
Insure your horse now. He does not have anything pre-existing to the best of your and your vet's knowledge. A simple cut in the field can result in expensive vet bills so insure him now for peace of mind.

Self-proclaimed experts, who rotate the same handful of issues, cannot diagnose in person, let alone from a few badly taken photographs on Facebook. It is also illegal for anyone besides a veterinary surgeon to diagnose an animal with anything. Do not listen to them and work with your vet.

Simply start, that is the hardest part. Perhaps visit to observe the staff bring him in and pick out his feet. Seeing him behave to be handled might help your confidence. Then build up to grooming and hand walking him.

Perhaps look into some online training. Warwick Schiller has an online video club with step by step videos on relationship building with your horse alongside training videos. He has free videos available on YouTube. Perhaps other posters can suggest resources to help you.

If you are a reader there are a lot of books that might help. Kelly Marks has a book named Perfect Manners, it is under four pounds from amazon second hand. She has another book named Creating a bond with your horse, it is three pounds from amazon. Another series that is very easy to read is 100 ways to improve by Susan McBane. The Equine Partnership, Behaviour and Health books would be most useful to you at this stage. They appear to be under five pounds on amazon and eBay.

I appreciate being nervous meeting a stranger from the Internet, never mind having them come to your yard. If the poster was willing perhaps you could meet at a coffee shop first. It is always helpful to have a circle of horse contacts and it can be helpful to talk (offload) to someone not close to the situation.

edited: once you have met with poster(s), then it would simply be friends coming to visit and help with your horse. This should not be a reason to upset or offend your yard owner.
 
I'm sorry that you're going through this Jasmine, those kinds of comments are so incredibly unhelpful and realistically no-one can possibly know from looking at a couple of static photos whether or not a horse has health problems. It could be that he is just a young cob lacking muscle who is in need of some TLC.

Equally, you can buy a clean-limbed horse who passes a 5 stage vetting and find a whole host of problems down the line. Sadly that's the gamble with horses, you always have to be prepared for something to come up. Unfortunately many of us have ended up with walking vet bills, despite ticking all of the boxes in the purchasing process. Buying unseen is much more of a risk, but you're best off working with the horse you have in front of you now.

If he were mine, I'd start bonding with him in the stable or out in the field on his terms. Let him come to you, give him a scratch and some treats, get to know him. When you feel that he's less scared and defensive, try ascertaining if there's anything standing out to you health-wise. Pick out his feet, watch him move to see if he seems comfortable or if there is any lameness present, run your hands over him for any lumps and bumps. You may well find that he just needs some better management/lifestyle changes. It's important to make sure that he's up to date on the basics though - teeth, feet, vaccinations. Once he's less defensive, another vet visit to make sure his teeth are okay is essential if it hasn't been done already.

As someone who has been clinically depressed in the past, I really empathise with what you're going through, but in my experience, inaction will only heighten your stress and anxious feelings. It may be that Ozzy needs you as much as you need him, so go give your pony a hug and tell him you're going to look after each other.

The offer above from dottielottie is lovely, I would take her up on that :)
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I am going to meet with the yard owner tomorrow morning to find out how he has been with them as they are not really letting me know anything. Then I can have more of an idea. All I have in my memory at the moment is that awful day on Friday when the vet came out and it all went so wrong.
 
spike123 said:
anddd....breatheee!!! please don't instantly panic. None of us can be certain of anything except the horse needs turnout and time to settle, especially if he's been through a few hands recently before finding you. I like him. He doesn't need to be the best put together horse and once he's gotten through his panic of moving on from everything he knows as safe and into the hands of lots of strangers I'm sure he will settle down and become a nicer horse who will hopefully in time prove to be safe sane and sensible with a little input from your riding school. The important thing is you give him and yourself time and a chance to see if you're a good match. In a few weeks ask the vet to come back and retry the checks they originally came to do. You will be just fine. You have a good network around you if the riding school is reputable. Together you can work through this and be honest with them how you feel. Hopefully they will be more than happy to help you. If not then that's the point where you need to bring your own help in. No riding school will object to behaviourists coming to help you. It's not the same thing as them giving you riding lessons.
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ohh and btw we've all been there when it comes to what the hell have i gone and done. You've got this and we're all here to try and offer support and advice if needed
 
Jasmine2023 said:
I am going to meet with the yard owner tomorrow morning to find out how he has been with them as they are not really letting me know anything. Then I can have more of an idea. All I have in my memory at the moment is that awful day on Friday when the vet came out and it all went so wrong.
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It's the past you can't change it, but you can change how the future pans out so focus on that.

As for his microchip if his passport is genuine and from when he was a foal then there should be 8 years ISH of history...previous owner any of those in there?
Which company is the microchip registered to they should be able to tell you when it was put in.

Does he match his markings details ( I expect you've not been close enough to answer that.) but worles etc should all be marked down.

I suspect that passport is a recent one with little information in tbh.
 
Amymay Again said:
I think this is very sad. Obviously it's hugely disappointing to have been scammed like this. But he is your responsibility at the end of the day, and seeing the horse and handling him etc doesn't mean you'll automatically get attached. There's a time when we have to step up, and this is your time.

Having horses is hard, hard work. Even the perfect ones make it stressful.

Washing your hands of him is not the answer. I'd see this as a fabulous opportunity to learn, grow in confidence and except a challenge you weren't expecting.
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Please dont blame yourself. I have had horses all my life and my family before me. When I was 58 years old I bought a horse from a dealer in Scotland. Tryed him out as I told her that I have to hack out on the road and the horse must be good in traffic. He was fine to ride up there. had him 5 stage vetted. When we collected him the dealer handed me 6 bags of chaff and nuts (6 shopping bags) sayimng it was for the change over. After a few days of having this horse home I noticed he began to stand in an odd manner, one front leg slightly forward and dropping the opposite hind leg. When the saddler came to fit him with a saddle, he noticed how the horse moved away when approached with a saddle. When I got on him the horse sunk down and jumped forwards. The saddler said "there you are" I said "that's odd he didnt do that when I tried him out" Anyway got Diane Daynes the back girl in and she found him very tight and sore. Well to cut a long story short the dealer had drugged him up, I had the blood run that was taken at vetting which showed positive for NSAIDs. I remembered the food she had given me, two bags of which were still on the lorry so had them tested, full of bute!! Ive come to the conclusion and so have a lot of my experienced friends, that if you buy enough horses in your lifetime you will get done. We sent this poor horse back (my husband is a lawyer) he demanded the money back and took her for just under 3k in costs. The poor horse was sent straight over to Ireland to the Goresbridge sales and bought in by another dealer and sold to a lady who he seriosuly injured. He did however have a reasonable ended as she had him retired on a friends farm in Yorkshire and he was pts a few years later as he became very lame.

I do hope things work out with your horse. Dont be afraid to get some professional help in.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
I didn't say anyone in particular had but there have been several comments about the horse possibly having problems with it's legs psd etc. things I had not heard about until I looked it up. This has added to my anxiety more than the rest of the issues
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It's not something to worry about at the moment.

Give both of you a chance. Give him say 3 months, love on him, get to know each other and see how things turn out.

If he was a mine, I'd get his vet checked again, just to rule anything out but it's not something you have to do.

I do think it's unusual for you YO not to let a trainer on the yard - it's quite common on most yards to allow access during reasonable hours, I think.

I do think you need to know what you're dealing with either through a vet or experienced person working with him.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
I didn't say anyone in particular had but there have been several comments about the horse possibly having problems with it's legs psd etc. things I had not heard about until I looked it up. This has added to my anxiety more than the rest of the issues
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Well your next step is to insure him. No one can really make a judgement call from the photos posted. Your vet has had a cursory look and thinks he seems generally ok. So there's nothing stopping you from insuring him.

Do take the offer up thread of one of the posters offering to visit with you 'as a friend'. They'll be able to help you make a dispassionate decision on him. And it would be helpful to you to have another set of eyes on him.

As @Red-1 says, even the most innocent of issue can end up costing a small fortune, as you'll be aware from owning horses before. So insurance is, in my opinion, vital to have (even with a good amount in the bank).

But, if this is all too much for you (as it really does seem) sell him and settle for pony time at a riding school. No financial commitments, no bonding, no hassle.
 
I think as they do livery at the riding school you are in a very good position. Plenty of people around who would probably love to help out with your cob. You may find he is a lovely boy once he has settled. He already sounds better than he did during his first few weeks.
 
www.equineregister.co.uk

National Equine Microchip & UELN Lookup | Equine Register Ltd

Equine Register and the Digital Stable allows owners to claim their equine passports digitally and request changes to personal information held on the Central Equine Database about themselves and their equines
www.equineregister.co.uk www.equineregister.co.uk

Requires details from passport maybe just maybe your be able to trave his history
 
Jasmine2023 said:
I am going to meet with the yard owner tomorrow morning to find out how he has been with them as they are not really letting me know anything. Then I can have more of an idea. All I have in my memory at the moment is that awful day on Friday when the vet came out and it all went so wrong.
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Wouldn't it be wonderful if we were all blessed with hindsight, but we're not. Good luck tomorrow. If the yo is not really keeping you up to date, you may be pleasantly surprised now he has been turned out for a few days. If the last experience was an horrendous one, it will always stick in your mind so fingers crossed you can see an improvement. It may also be worth telling her (not asking, telling her) you will be bringing a friend with you for a bit of moral support and also for safetys sake. I understand YOs dont want millions of randoms wandering around, but if she's been pre-warned, I think it would be unreasonable of her not to allow it.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
I am going to meet with the yard owner tomorrow morning to find out how he has been with them as they are not really letting me know anything. Then I can have more of an idea. All I have in my memory at the moment is that awful day on Friday when the vet came out and it all went so wrong.
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The last horse I bought tap danced on my head the first day I got him. Being a bit piggy for the vet is nothing 😎
 
@Jasmine2023 I’m local to Bradford. I’d be happy to come and meet you both and see what you’re working with.

I don’t work with horses anymore but spent the best part of 10 years working both on professional yards and riding freelance. I’ve worked with plenty of tricky souls and a bargey cob won’t phase me.

More than happy to come, have a chat and a cuddle with Ozzy and see how things are.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
So how can I see if a Passport is genuine or not? I have looked up his number and all details seems to say he's 8 years old and he's micro chipped too.
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When was the passport issued?

He should have had one all his life and I'd expect to see vaccinations and previous owners on the appropriate pages. If it's recently issued then he was either just out in a field and no one bothered so it's his first passport; his passport genuinely got lost so they got another or it accidentally on purpose got lost so details like age could be changed.

When you get the vet out, ask them to check his microchip matches the passport and that there's only one. A horse transporter I use who regularly brings horses from Ireland, said they often have more than one chip.
 
Ahrena said:
@Jasmine2023 I’m local to Bradford. I’d be happy to come and meet you both and see what you’re working with.

I don’t work with horses anymore but spent the best part of 10 years working both on professional yards and riding freelance. I’ve worked with plenty of tricky souls and a bargey cob won’t phase me.

More than happy to come, have a chat and a cuddle with Ozzy and see how things are.
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@Jasmine2023 I would definitely take Ahrena up on her offer if I were you. She helped me out a few years ago when I was in a bit of a spot with one of my horses.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
That's him yes. Can I say thank you for being about the only one to say anything positive about him. There have been so many negative reactions to him physcially which has made me not want to try anything with him apart from sell him with full disclosure which I know will be at a loss. People have made it sound like he is going to be expensive to treat which I cannot afford. Obviously when I buy a pet I make sure I can afford vet bills but they are general vet bills not 1,000's pounds on operations etc. I usually have all my animals insured but no company will insure him with pre existing conditions. So what is the point in me getting to know him if I cannot afford to pay for expensive treatments and keep him. He has seen a vet, in case anyone missed that, but we stopped half way through due to his behaviour. His heart and lungs sounded fine and his eyes looked okay. But if there are issues with his legs as people are saying then I just cannot deal with that. I am having to deal with all this on my own. For those who are understanding of my mental health issues I thank you. Both my parents are dead, I have no children, so no one to help me here. I am married but my husband does not understand mental health issues even though I had depression when we met. It not only affects me mentally but physically as I have an irregular heart beat I get heart palpitations when stressed. I could not sleep much last because of this. I am trying my best for him too he hasn't been forgotten in all this. I just wish some people could be a little less harsh and judgemental. I made a mistake and by god am I paying for it now.
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several have been positive about him. He is a nice horse. There is nothing wrong with him, it is not the end of the world. It can all be sorted. You don't need to be paying for it now, you can turn it around.

I have no idea why people came on with superior knowledge criticising his legs and anything else nor his price. Why on earth would they do that to someone who should be excited having just bought a horse. Why on earth would they criticise a new horse they had never met in the flesh. The only one ATM who can criticise one way or another is your vet. They have actually seen Ozzy.

I presume the vet didn't see any obvious issues or they would have warned you even if they had to stop the vetting. I'm not sure why you can't insure him. What pre existing conditions does he actually have? not what conditions do people on the internet think he may have.

So it seems you have a nice horse whose is very upset at moving home and very nervous about how he is going to deal with it. On the other side there is you who is now struggling with your MH and equally upset and nervous about Ozzy.
Look at him in the pictures being ridden in traffic, does this look to be a nasty horse, is he rearing, bucking running off? he is coping even with a not that good rider.

You haven't bought a bad, poor or nasty horse. He has teething problems settling in and that is it. A large number do have, he is far from unique.
If you are avoiding him because you may get attached and he will have to go that is going nowhere. You will never know if you had got to know him you would have loved him and you could both have sorted things out easily.

What would be your view if in say 2 weeks from now, you went up to the stables and got to know him and he was fine with you. You watched someone handling him and he was fine. You watched someone riding him and he was fine, well behaved. If you took his feed in and he was fine. Would you still want him to go or would you be prepared to take a little time, ride a riding school horse for a couple more sessions, let someone else ride OzZy for a couple more times and for you to start working on getting to know him. If it was me I would do a couple of weeks ground work and massaging him so we formed a relationship. Take him for a few walks in hand.

There is a risk you will feel hurt if you get attached if you have to sell him but an even greater one if you can work something out and get to love him but have then let him go.

Just in case you have missed this I will repeat this is a nice horse, he could become a great friend. I hope you won't lose him, that would be sad.
 
You should be able to get him insured.

People have pointed out some conformation faults, but the thing is with horses- you can get the most beautifully put together animal in the world and yet all the wheels fall off. Then you can a horse who ‘should’ have physical problems because of their poor conformation, but they never do! It’s kind of luck of the drawer!

Nobody can diagnose your horse from a photo. They can point out areas of weakness (straight hocks are commonly seen in horses diagnosed with PSD) but it’s not a given that it will happen by any means.

Take those posts with a pinch of salt. Right now that needn’t be your priority. Get some quotes to get him insured, for peace of mind.
 
I would agree, get him insured now. To your knowledge he has no pre existing conditions at this point. If you wait to insure him and something comes up it will be excluded. You have had a couple of offers of help. I would take them up.... You are paying the yard owner good money for full livery you should be able to bring visitors to the yard surely. Insure him, get the vet to complete a check over, get his teeth done and let him chill out for a couple of weeks. Things may not be as bad as you think.
 
With regards to the passport it appears to have the one owner on it from when he was a colt. There are about 3 or 4 vaccination stickers but the last one was 2022. Other than that not much info.

The vet did not seem to see anything obviously wrong with him from her quick look over.

Do you not have to have at least a Stage 2 vetting for insurance?
 
Jasmine2023 said:
With regards to the passport it appears to have the one owner on it from when he was a colt. There are about 3 or 4 vaccination stickers but the last one was 2022. Other than that not much info.

The vet did not seem to see anything obviously wrong with him from her quick look over.

Do you not have to have at least a Stage 2 vetting for insurance?
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Not for a horse valued under ten thousand
 
Jasmine2023 said:
With regards to the passport it appears to have the one owner on it from when he was a colt. There are about 3 or 4 vaccination stickers but the last one was 2022. Other than that not much info.

The vet did not seem to see anything obviously wrong with him from her quick look over.

Do you not have to have at least a Stage 2 vetting for insurance?
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I think you only need a vetting depending on the value of the horse you are insuring.

If you have his passport name, you might be able to find out some stuff online.
 
Jasmine2023 said:
With regards to the passport it appears to have the one owner on it from when he was a colt. There are about 3 or 4 vaccination stickers but the last one was 2022. Other than that not much info.

The vet did not seem to see anything obviously wrong with him from her quick look over.

Do you not have to have at least a Stage 2 vetting for insurance?
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Search the owner on Facebook, or just Google the name see if anything pops up.
Re the vaccinations when was the first one ?
 
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