Brave people post "good shoeing" pix please

[cptrayes]

I think you'll find he is an 'uncommon dun roan' and not grey, and at a guess his name is Buzz Oh well, she's gone now anyway (again)

Ah, a bit like my "mouse dun" unusual colour Shetland then???

 

[rhino]

Ah, a bit like my "mouse dun" unusual colour Shetland then???

Shetlands come in all colours of the rainbow to be fair Haven't you seen the film?

[YOUTUBE]sXoYK4b_q24[/YOUTUBE]

Oops, sorry about the hijack, just thought a few posters would recognise Buzz.

 

[ThePony]

I don’t know if this will help, but as a farrier who for the last 28 years has only done referral cases I have come to the conclusion that there are some facts about shoeing a horses that seem not to be disputed, even when I present a lecture to a room full of farriers.
1) Any crack from the nail down is the fault of the shoe (I am happy to go into more detail if needed)
2) Expansion and contraction of the foot is affected by shoeing and can be altered depending on shoeing method
3) A farrier will shoe in a particular way and it will often favour some types of horses over others
4) The advance in quality over the last 15/20 years of the readymade shoe been responsible for better shoeing
5) The cases of Corns in horses feet has dropped considerably since the teaching of hunter heels has virtually stopped
6) The cases of pre-navicular syndrome have significantly diminished since the teaching of more supportive shoeing
4) Pride kills more horses than lack of knowledge
The amount of time I have been asked to assess a farrier work must be in the hundreds, I will never pass judgement on another persons work.
My take has always been: the problem starts now, the treatment starts now,
Fig 3b on this page will show you a type of shoeing that I found to be as balanced and supportive as I could get it.
It also seemed to be good for horses that were going into transition before becoming barefoot, as the foot was able to expand and contracted as much as was possible.

really informative, thanks!
Just wondering though, what are 'hunter heels'?

 

[ThePony]

It was thought that the slant of the heel should be continued on to the heel of the shoe,
Thus lessening the surface area of support.
There are 2 shoeing disciplines I know of that still believe this to be the correct way of shoeing,
I take a different view!

Sorry to be utterly dim - so with hunter heels where the heel horn meets the shoe it is not flat but an angled (triangular-ish?) shape so that there is a narrower stip of horn at the heel meeting the shoe? Or something else entirely lol, don't suppose there is a pic of such a thing? Why would it have been done over leaving things flat and with a larger surface area? Are there any circumstances where it might suit a horse, whether as a long or short term technique?

It had never occured to me that there would be different schools of shoeing, what are UK farriers taught, is it mainly the one school? Are there large differences between the different schools? Might different UK farriers follow different schools to each other depending of when they were taught/what CPD they have done etc?

 

[ester]

apparently this shoe has sloped hunter heels

imaged removed cos huge!

from here : http://www.farrierspages.com/different_types_of_horseshoe.htm

I have to say I do think my boy might have been better off if I hadn't mentioned him hunting.

try again

 

[ThePony]

ace, I get you now, thank you!!

 

[ThePony]

Fig 12 on this page will show you the result of hunter shoeing, http://www.rockfoot.com/why.html
The heels are unsupported so they prolapsed; on the underside the shoe will often be the right width but what we would call short.
It took me nearly a year to get this horse right; in fact you will see nearly all the faults that can be performed by a farrier are in this foot.
You ask about training: I would rather have a separate thread on the subject as it is something I feel so passionate about I could bore the whole H&H.
But I will say I don’t think the present system is working as well as it could. And yet it is admired all over the world. That could be because it is a closed shop, as you have to be registered to be able to practice in this country. Meaning that there is quite a restriction on the number of farriers that can practise, subsequently some farriers find they are very busy no matter what ‘standard’ they set.
Once qualified there is no minimum standard of horse shoeing that has to be maintained
Mainly because we still can’t agree on one: 20 years ago the hunter heel was all the fashion, it was conceived (as far as I can ascertain) by an engineer, not a vet or farrier, the idea behind it was t it was harder for the shoe to be ‘hooked off’ we now know different and most farriers have outlawed it.

Ouch, goodness me, no wonder the poor horse wasn't sound! Seperate thread sounds a plan, sorry, don't want to go o/t, sounds super interesting though!

 

[Wagtail]

Spyda would I be correct in translating "bench knees" for people who don't know as "the bottom half of her legs below the knee are set further to the outside than the top half of her legs".

??

We have a horse on our yard with bench knees (offset cannon bones). How would you suggest she is shod? She has her shoes off at the moment because she is in foal. Not my decision BTW as one of my liveries. My farrier is always going on about her awful feet as one side of her fronts is more upright than the other.

 

[Chestnut mare]

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m563/Sam181/ee2f5e3d.jpg there should be some feet pictures in the album! I hope they are ok as was taken on my phone.

 

[Chestnut mare]

 

[cptrayes]

We have a horse on our yard with bench knees (offset cannon bones). How would you suggest she is shod? She has her shoes off at the moment because she is in foal. Not my decision BTW as one of my liveries. My farrier is always going on about her awful feet as one side of her fronts is more upright than the other.

I hope AG or Moorman can answer you Wagtail. I would not shoe her at all. The horse I knew of my friends had the most severe overlapping unstable sand crack I have ever seen, was unsound in shoes, and those cracks went to tiny lines on a sound horse when she went barefoot. I can only assume that a real movement specialist like A G would shoe to replicate the balance that mare found for herself, but clearly it would take an expert.

 

[cptrayes]

It may just be a trick of the light in the photo but it looks to me as if the right hand branch of this shoe covers neither to the end OR to the outside of your horse's heel and it is pressing onto the frog. The first is a common "mistake" , often done deliberately because it can help the horse stop pulling off shoes. But not to reach the outside edge is simply, to me, wrong with no reason I can imagine (Moorman/AG could it be deliberate?). I'd be asking my farrier some questions about that one.


Great posts Moorman, thanks, I was hoping you might join us.

 

[tallyho!]

how did I miss this thread??.... just off to read 29 pages worth... back soon....

 

[Eaglestone]

I think considering his problems that your farrier is marvellous for having kept him going so long and not just giving up on him. Is there any chance of using plastic glue-on shoes? I know they cost a fortune, which you might not have, I just wonder if it's a possible option for him to avoid the concussion of nailing on steel ones.

Cushings can be such a heartbreaking disease to manage, I wish you well with him.

Farrier has been a star and is so patient with Motor .

Back in 2006 we tried glue on shoes, but it was not that successful and was really to allow me to walk him out, across the yard. Farrier now says he will always have to wear his front shoes.

We decided that he could go without his hinds and quite happily has his Boa boots put on and off we go

Cushings seems to be a much more common 'condition' to horse owners have to manage. I think that when a pony is and has been and always be a 'once in a lifetime' horse, then you will do anything for them .... well that is my opinion ....

 

[LucyPriory]

I wouldn't be happy with how this shoe is set either. Nor the rasping out of the outer hoof wall at the toe. Can't be sure because it is obsured but it looks like a bit of wall crumbling at 12 noon esp dark foot.

I suspect the feet are running forwards, that the heel buttresses under the shoes are weak and that there is some contraction.

Appears to be some stress through the quarters too.

This style of shoeing is very common in some parts of Kent.

 

[Bernster]

What an active thread this has been. Lots more posts since I checked in at lunchtime. Just goes to show that, whilst the obvious point would be that people should speak to their farriers for info etc on their horses, we still have lots of questions that they aren't answering !!

 

[cptrayes]

What an active thread this has been. Lots more posts since I checked in at lunchtime. Just goes to show that, whilst the obvious point would be that people should speak to their farriers for info etc on their horses, we still have lots of questions that they aren't answering !!

I think there is a psychological problem with talking to some farriers. It's a solitary profession where you are the boss and no-one tells you what to do. Because of that it will inevitably, subconsciously, attract a fair proportion of people who don't really want to communicate with other people and who certainly don't want to be told what to do.

If you put those two things together, questionning by owners can, unfortunately, sometimes be interpreted as "trying to tell me what to do" and can be met with hostility. Sometimes it will be met with a poorly explained response simply because the farrier doesn't really like talking to people and doesn't communicate well verbally. Some farriers are brilliant communicators, of course , but maybe my description will ring bells with some of you

 

[Eaglestone]

I think there is a psychological problem with talking to some farriers. It's a solitary profession where you are the boss and no-one tells you what to do. Because of that it will inevitably, subconsciously, attract a fair proportion of people who don't really want to communicate with other people and who certainly don't want to be told what to do.

If you put those two things together, questionning by owners can, unfortunately, sometimes be interpreted as "trying to tell me what to do" and can be met with hostility. Sometimes it will be met with a poorly explained response simply because the farrier doesn't really like talking to people and doesn't communicate well verbally. Some farriers are brilliant communicators, of course , but maybe my description will ring bells with some of you

I agree with this statement 100% .... I did have major problems with mine, but we worked through it, thank god .... but 21 years must be a good 'partnership' lol

 

[kezimac]

here goes - be as honest as possible - horse no longer looked after by this farrier!!
might be dark
right fore

left fore

left fore

right fore

right fore!! previous shoeing

and under new farrier

right fore

left fore

but they dont look like that today!!!!!!

 

[ester]

eaglestone definitely know motor, he is ginger and part welsh for a start .

pleased to hear he is still enjoying life and great to see his feet too

 

[kezimac]

and now..... same farrier trimming - 4 months later- but i took from stupid angles so not really great photos.
right fore

left fore

is on pure feeds, minerals. and no grass

 

[Roody2]

Excellent post!!

I don't have pics at the moment but a question:

My horse has recently had wedges put on his hinds to assist with a bone spavin in the off hind hock, he's 15. I was expecting a wedge on the shoe - i.e. a solid graduated thickening of the shoes on the inside and outside wall making the heels higher. Instead what he has is a 1 inch long piece of metal welded on the heel ends of both hind shoes which effectively doubles the thickness of the shoe at this point. But that does then leave a section of the foot/shoe not in contact with the ground. (think human shoes: wedges vs stiletto's).
My question - is this a problem? He seems fine at the moment and is on his 3rd shoeing with them. I was wondering if there was any risk of damage to the walls where they are not in contact with the floor?

 

[Frozen Hoof Boots]

Been madly taking some pics today.... checkout my giddyup pins
Comments welcome

On all his feet the frog has contact with the ground which has made a huge difference to his balance and no longer slipping on the road.

Fronts

O/S Front

N/S Front

N/S Front Shoe Underside

N/S Hind

Hind feet view

O/S Hind Side view

O/S Hind Front view (dodgy flash glare)

O/S Hind Front view

OS Hind Shoe underside view

 

[trina1982]

Been madly taking some pics today.... checkout my giddyup pins
Comments welcome

On all his feet the frog has contact with the ground which has made a huge difference to his balance and no longer slipping on the road.



O/S Hind Side view

Is this a 'bullnose' hoof. What does your farrier say about the hinds? Waiting for responses from people more educated than me!

Love that the shoes are thin and the frog reaches the floor, thats interesting to see. I assume the shoes wear quicker than thicker shoes though, hence why most shoes are thicker?

Thanks for posting these
Trina x

 

[riding_high]

The problem with this rocker shoe, to me, is that it is so extreme that I would have thought that to cut the toe "up" that much from the floor you then had the shoe bearing on very sensitive bits of the foot. I've seen rocker shoes before but never with such a severe upwards bend. I'm not surprised your boy did not do well in them. I know that if I was daft enough to rasp a curve that big into any of my horse's feet, I would be reaching live white line, at the very least showing pink colouring indicating that I was too close to a blood supply, and quite likely actually drawing blood

I guess the message is to listen to the horse. Your told you he was uncomfortable and you did something about it (gave up shoes). For those who don't feel they can give up shoes, then a change of farrier would be a must under those conditions unless he could make the horse more comfortable.

thankyou for your reply, he was struggling to even stand correct with these shoes on, within an hour of the shoes coming off i saw a big difference in his movement. i know some people will probably dismiss that statement but it really was that noticeable.

i will try and find the pics of the shoes that were removed and also see if i have any pics on the computer of his feet now. the back person said that he now stands with a leg in each corner and he looks a much better 'shape', before he was very hunched up and compensated with his legs.

 

[trina1982]

I make a point of never commenting on another farriers work.
I will however say that thin shoes do not wear out quicker than thick ones; in fact it is usually the other way around.
Go and look at the heels of your old wellies, now look at your slippers, the reason is, the least conflict in action causes the least wear.
There are many pictures of feet that I have seen on this thread that genuinely upset me, and make me realise I was right to loose faith in my profession.
As caring owners some of you deserve better than you are getting.
I do hate having to keep apologising for my profession
As for any general comment I have I refer to my answer 273

Thanks for that Moorman. Just one question - if thin shoes don't wear as quickly as thick, and they allow the frog to reach the ground easier, then why aren't they used more often? Isn't it a no brainer? Or am i missing something?

Trina x

 

[Meowy Catkin]

What an active thread this has been. Lots more posts since I checked in at lunchtime. Just goes to show that, whilst the obvious point would be that people should speak to their farriers for info etc on their horses, we still have lots of questions that they aren't answering !!

I did speak to my now sacked Farrier RE my concerns with my mare's hooves, he made me feel like an idiot for asking.

My new Farrier is happy and indeed enthusiastic about educating me.

Because of what happened to my mare I am now much more willing to stand by my concerns and less likely to be brushed aside. It was a terrible way to learn this though.

I strongly belive that if you ask your Farrier a question and they are reluctant to answer it, fob you off with a short answer (that they are unwilling to expand on) or make you feel like an idiot for asking/questioning their work - then there is a problem.

 

[Frozen Hoof Boots]

Is this a 'bullnose' hoof. What does your farrier say about the hinds? Waiting for responses from people more educated than me!

Love that the shoes are thin and the frog reaches the floor, thats interesting to see. I assume the shoes wear quicker than thicker shoes though, hence why most shoes are thicker?

Thanks for posting these
Trina x

ooh now I'm even more a bit worried as both hinds are like it, see

What does bullnose mean and how does it get corrected?
Can bullnose be caused by rasping the toe too much as I'm seeing that he literally has no toe but the horn is smooth anyone advise??
He definitely has a tendency to drag rather than lift his hind feet. Better after massage manipulation but reading bullnose feet whilst amongst other things can cause toe dragging

 

[trina1982]

ooh now I'm even more a bit worried as both hinds are like it, see

What does bullnose mean and how does it get corrected?
Can bullnose be caused by rasping the toe too much as I'm seeing that he literally has no toe but the horn is smooth anyone advise??
He definitely has a tendency to drag rather than lift his hind feet. Better after massage manipulation but reading bullnose feet whilst amongst other things can cause toe dragging

I'd love to answer but i'm a bit vague on it's definition myself. I think there are true bullnoses and 'made' ones (ie the toes has been dumped or worn). There have been a few threads on here recently, so you could try searching? I think in a true bullnose the pedal bone has rotated upward (negative rotation?). Can be linked to suger sensitivity i believe.

#Disclaimer - i know jack about anything so please take all i say with a huge pinch of salt and wait for someone who knows something to come along!

Trina x

 

[A Guilding]

Thank you for posting a before and after A Guilding. Why was the horse left for 6 months initally before you were able to trim him? Amazing that the massive crack had joined at the top of the foot even with the stresses that must have been going through it from the open crack and the hoof wall left so long. Brilliant pics!!

Ace thread, more pics please guys, I'm learing huge amounts!! Thank you cptrayes!!

He was left for 6 months because he is a polo pony and the player left England for Aus in september and returned in march, we think the foot grew together because the heel section overlapped the toe quarter. I was a top pony so we were under pressure to keep it on the road for the season, hence it having a bar shoe and a stud hole fitted.