Brave people post "good shoeing" pix please

[cptrayes]

Reason I ask is sometimes in the summer he can be more sensitive on his front feet, less tolerant to work on hard ground etc. To be fair it's only been a couple of occasions (and one was caused by a corn- the one time he was shod by a different farrier while mine was on holiday) but made me wonder if pads were worth considering. He's currently barefoot behind anyway.

Summer sensitivity is very, very common and seems to be usually caused by excess grass sugars. Personally I would heavily restrict access to grass at peak sugar production (mid morning to evening) before I would use pads. My horses are in during that time, otherwise they cannot cope with stones with their bare feet.

Is your only/main complaint with his shoeing that they appear to be too far forward? Took a couple of pics just now- this is his 2nd shoeing and he was done about 2 weeks ago. Think they look better?

There doesn't seem much to pick holes in there. Your farrier is unusual in using unclipped shoes, does he explain why?

How long has your farrier been shoeing like this for you? I ask because mid way down the front foot there appears to be a change of angle, suggesting that a new foot has been growing in at the correct angle for about half a foot. Did something change 6 ish months ago in his shoeing, perhaps to try to correct the fact that his heels are a little underrun (the last point where the heel touches the floor is not underneath the bulbs of the heel but some way in front of it, where they can't support the leg above fully). It looks to me as if this is a good remedial job halfway through a full foot growth??

I have a feeling that the photos may simply be deceptive, but there appears to be an upward curve to the hairline on the sides on all four feet (commonly called "the quarters"). If the upward lift is genuinely there in real life this would, I understand, normally suggest upward pressure from the shoe at that point - in other words that the sides of his feet might, possibly, be being left too long. Lots of horses, particularly barefooters, break out the sides of the feet so that they do not contact the ground/shoe on the side at all. We had a photo showing that very early on in the thread if you can find it.

 

[cptrayes]

I didn't intend to use this thread to set myself up as any kind of shoeing expert. It's quite funny really, I'm a committed barefooter, but maybe I wouldn't be if my farriers had been doing as good a job as we are mostly seeing here. I'm very grateful for A G's input as a farrier. If there is anyone else out there who knows their stuff, please feel free to join us.

 

[cptrayes]

My 19 Connemara, shod every 7 weeks and is due to be done this friday




Uploaded with ImageShack.us



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

These look like they are beautiful frogs for a pony, wide and healthy. Can't fault the shoes either but it can sometimes be difficult to get frogs as good as this in a shod pony. (My friend struggled with her own Connemara who had shrunken little frogs up inside high upright feet). My guess would be that this one gets plenty of frog stimulation from its work or its living conditions?


19 and a grey still with black points??? He/she must look stunning

 

[Jackson]

Really interesting thread

I have some old photos that you are more than welcome to look at. Jack is currently unshod, however goes from a full set of shoes, to only fronts/none at all depending on the time of year. His feet have improved loads with my farrier, I have no concerns there. There's even loads of improvement since these photos were taken last year. (note, I was taking the pictures to draw from, so they are prabably hopeless for this!)


A couple for comedy value?

He was then put in rock and roll shoes? with two clips instead of one. what are they and what do they do?

 

[viola]

I agree with SpottedCat that it is not ethical to post someone else's work on an open forum to be 'critiqued' by unqualified forum members, who can't agree amongst themselves. As far as I can tell, there is only one poster on this thread who is actually qualified to comment on some-one else's shoeing..

I disagree. The "work" of "horse professionals" is published on the internet all the time: questions about horse's condition (after being looked after by a nutritionist), videos and photos of lessons (with instructors), horses after physio treatments, specific training methods etc etc I can understand if someone specifically asks for certain things not to be published online and owner respecting that wish.
In all other respects, I think all horse professionals (and horse owners) could do with more responsibility for actions and be aware that their work might indeed end up somewhere on a forum (real one or virtual one).
I think the farrier's photos on here prove that if someone is proud of their work they would be happy to have it in the open for others to discuss.

I find this thread fascinating and very educational so many thanks to cptrayes for starting it.

 

[cptrayes]

Really interesting thread

I have some old photos that you are more than welcome to look at. Jack is currently unshod, however goes from a full set of shoes, to only fronts/none at all depending on the time of year. His feet have improved loads with my farrier, I have no concerns there. There's even loads of improvement since these photos were taken last year. (note, I was taking the pictures to draw from, so they are prabably hopeless for this!)

He was then put in rock and roll shoes? with two clips instead of one. what are they and what do they do?

Even full of dirt this photo appears to show what a beautifully circular front foot your horse has. Regular curves like that are very strong and are used by man in engineering for that reason.

Double clip front shoes are to allow the farrier to bring the length of the toe back, or sometimes used to add strength to the hold of the shoe in horses that get shoes off easily. Remind us AG, what's the saying? One clip is equal to ?? nails???

 

[Jackson]

Very true, Viola The way I see it, is that you own the horse, and therefore its feet. If the farrier is worried about you showing people pictures of your own horses feet then he obviously thinks that there's something wrong with his shoeing!!

 

[cptrayes]

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/179810_203657902982702_100000154802712_891878_3995128_n.jpg[/IMG]

These are interesting and the first we have seen. A lot of owners would worry about "cracks" like these. Usually, though, they are just lines in the hoof wall or very shallow grooves and of no concern. Your farrier will tell you if they are anything to worry about. Unless they move apart when the horse does, they should not cause a problem.

I have a barefoot horse with two lines like this on each back foot and whatever I do I cannot get rid of them though they drive me nuts. After all, he's barefoot, he's supposed to be perfect !!

 

[indie999]

I disagree. The "work" of "horse professionals" is published on the internet all the time: questions about horse's condition (after being looked after by a nutritionist), videos and photos of lessons (with instructors), horses after physio treatments, specific training methods etc etc I can understand if someone specifically asks for certain things not to be published online and owner respecting that wish.
In all other respects, I think all horse professionals (and horse owners) could do with more responsibility for actions and be aware that their work might indeed end up somewhere on a forum (real one or virtual one).
I think the farrier's photos on here prove that if someone is proud of their work they would be happy to have it in the open for others to discuss.

I find this thread fascinating and very educational so many thanks to cptrayes for starting it.

If I posted a picture of my toes will you be able to identify me too?

I agree if its my horses feet and I want to post a picture for comment I paid for the service and he is in the public domain/eye, etc so if people want to post be it a wound that a vet has treated why not? or a badly saddle fitted or a good one. As long as they own the animal and dont name the person who treated the animal ie I have no idea who any of the posters are on this forum anyway so whats the problem. So please continue this is one of the nicest foot threads on here.

 

[floradora09]

Summer sensitivity is very, very common and seems to be usually caused by excess grass sugars. Personally I would heavily restrict access to grass at peak sugar production (mid morning to evening) before I would use pads. My horses are in during that time, otherwise they cannot cope with stones with their bare feet.



There doesn't seem much to pick holes in there. Your farrier is unusual in using unclipped shoes, does he explain why?

Fab! Thanks, I was a bit concerned by your reaction to my first set of pics- I've always wholly trusted my farrier and felt he does a good job. Must have just looked that way due to the toe being worn away a bit more whilst being barefoot, but will keep it in mind in the future anyway!

Re the sugar sensitivity, I always thought it was more related to concussion/poor feet/hard ground than anything else- although his feet have improved a lot since having a 2 month break from shoes, so will see how he is this summer- and consider trying to reduce grass intake if needed.

Re the clips- it's not that clear on the pic but instead of front toe clips he has it rolled, to help breakover and stop him pulling shoes so much. I presume you can't have this as well as toe/quarter clips anyway? When he's shod behind he has quarter clips tho.

Some very interesting (as in good interesting!) farriery on here

 

[A Guilding]

This is a before and after few pics. This injury was a tread on the coronary band that went un trimmed for 6 months before we saw it.

We cleaned out the crack and re sculptured a foot with a rasp and Knife.

We fitted a bar shoe, which the owner still wanted a stud hole in, we did recomend that they didnt use it though.

these pics were all taken the same day.

 

[Jackson]

These are interesting and the first we have seen. A lot of owners would worry about "cracks" like these. Usually, though, they are just lines in the hoof wall or very shallow grooves and of no concern. Your farrier will tell you if they are anything to worry about. Unless they move apart when the horse does, they should not cause a problem.

Thank you His fronts are very circular. I know this is naughty, but here is a pic of his bare front one day after we took his shoes off.

The cracks have pretty much gone now. He still has a few lines. Could this have been because he spent last winter stabled on lots of hard feed and haylage compared to this summer and winter on poor grazing and soaked hay with no feed? (less sugar?)

 

[A Guilding]

The same foot 9 months on and not without a few probs on the way.

 

[trina1982]

(My friend struggled with her own Connemara who had shrunken little frogs up inside high upright feet)

Slightly off topic - i'm sure i've read somewhere about connemara's having a genetic condition linked to feet

Found a link here http://connemara-pony.blogspot.com/2012/01/genetic-diseases-why-some-people.html

Not sure if it rings any bells? Thought it worth a mention. It's called soft foot apparently.

Trina x

 

[cptrayes]

Re the sugar sensitivity, I always thought it was more related to concussion/poor feet/hard ground than anything else- although his feet have improved a lot since having a 2 month break from shoes, so will see how he is this summer- and consider trying to reduce grass intake if needed.

This is one of the ways that I believe barefoot has truly helped shod horses. It's very clear to many people with barefoot horses, including 2 of my 3, that they can't tread on stones and ignore them if they are eating spring and summer grass during the hours 11am to early evening. This is when grass has the most sugar in it, it varies from hour to hour. This grass causes sensitivity in the sole, but also a loss of strength in the laminae, which would mean that if you then went and did work on hard ground, shod or unshod, the horse could get what would then be described as concussion laminitis. It's my belief from having barefooters that a lot of concussion laminitis would not happen if the horse was restricted from eating too much daylight grass. Modern ryegrass diary orientated grazing is a real nightmare for horses. It really does take only a couple of days to loosen off the laminae, you can see the sole drop in a barefoot horse in that time.

This is still a theory, but it certainly fits with what we are seeing. So many horses go unsound when the ground goes hard, but when is the ground hard? In spring and summer when the grass is most rich.

Enough barefoot, back to shoes!

Except that I am just about to watch Whitechapel for a couple of hours

 

[Jesstickle]

This is a before and after few pics. This injury was a tread on the coronary band that went un trimmed for 6 months before we saw it.

Eep!

 

[ester]

I'm going to put these up as they might help others to see what is up with them! Would welcome any comments from AG, it has also reminded me that I need to take some more recent ones again. It is definitely easier to see any changes putting pics side by side.

these were from early november, 19yo welsh cob previously in full work, been hunting etc., occasionally showing some shortness of stride, lacking in medium trot put down to poss stiffness behind, went from sound to lame in about a week. CP has already seen them and was very useful in her comments.

left fore (shoeless)

right fore (shod)

Pony lame on left fore (hence shoe off) initial trip to vets = nerve blocked to back of foot, xrays indicated 0 palmar angle of the pedal bone.

................Much thinking and contacting for opinions by ester.........

Pony put in bar shoes

LF

RF

spent 6 weeks in these, still not proper sound so another trip to vets. Declared 50% sounder on a circle on hard ground. nerve blocked coffin joint = pony sound. Later that week steroid and HA into the joint and reshod. Pony now 95-99% soundish (I have no hard circles to test completely) and being brought back into work slowly to see how we go, now hacking for about an hour mostly in walk but with some trot.

 

[whisp&willow]

nice job A Guilding! where abouts in the country are you? just being nosey!

x

 

[floradora09]

How long has your farrier been shoeing like this for you? I ask because mid way down the front foot there appears to be a change of angle, suggesting that a new foot has been growing in at the correct angle for about half a foot. Did something change 6 ish months ago in his shoeing, perhaps to try to correct the fact that his heels are a little underrun (the last point where the heel touches the floor is not underneath the bulbs of the heel but some way in front of it, where they can't support the leg above fully). It looks to me as if this is a good remedial job halfway through a full foot growth??

I have a feeling that the photos may simply be deceptive, but there appears to be an upward curve to the hairline on the sides on all four feet (commonly called "the quarters"). If the upward lift is genuinely there in real life this would, I understand, normally suggest upward pressure from the shoe at that point - in other words that the sides of his feet might, possibly, be being left too long. Lots of horses, particularly barefooters, break out the sides of the feet so that they do not contact the ground/shoe on the side at all. We had a photo showing that very early on in the thread if you can find it.

Ooh interesting. I'm 90% certain nothing has been changed in the way he's shod for a good 18 months. The only big thing is that his shoes were removed at the end of october to december. But that was only 4 months ago. Before his barefoot stint:

After:

Before:

After:

Perhaps this is the reason?

Regarding the upward curve, I think it is the angle of the photo as I've never noticed it before and doesn't seem to appear on any of the other photos- but then again next time I've got the mud off his feet will have a look! I'll scroll back a few pages to see what the other horse's pic looks like.

Many thanks- I'm learning a lot from this thread!

 

[ester]

[/QUOTE]


I am always amazed that a foot can look like that and still be 'ok' so to speak, ie it doesn't all fall apart of bleed everywhere!

 

[A Guilding]

nice job A Guilding! where abouts in the country are you? just being nosey!

x

South of you .

 

[Eaglestone]

I am really enjoying this thread, so I thought I would add my pics.

Sorry for the picture overload & size (I have taken pictures, every (bar one! I think) shoeing for many years now ....

I would really appreciate any comments, positive or negative, as I am open to anything (I think!! )

Shoeing 24th April 2010

Shoeing 5th June 2010

Shoeing 2nd September 2011

Shoeing 15th October 2011

Shoeing 6th January 2012

 

[AFlapjack]

(My friend struggled with her own Connemara who had shrunken little frogs up inside high upright feet)

Slightly off topic - i'm sure i've read somewhere about connemara's having a genetic condition linked to feet

Found a link here http://connemara-pony.blogspot.com/2012/01/genetic-diseases-why-some-people.html

Not sure if it rings any bells? Thought it worth a mention. It's called soft foot apparently.

Trina x

This is really interesting! Thanks for posting

 

[viola]

The below photo was taken 2 years ago. Horse diagnosed with navicular ( diagnosed on Xrays and nerve blocked to back of the foot) in both front feet. The below is a combined decision of then vet and then farrier:

[/url]

Horse became progressively lamer over the next few weeks when this solution was suggested (together with cortisone injections and Tildren):

[/url]

[/url]

He became much sounder...for about a couple of weeks and then everything went downhill. He could not even trot on a circle for the vet (would do canter like hops if asked for a trot). We were advised to PTS.

We then went barefoot and his feet look very different now and are very much usable Still learning how to get his diet right and how to exercise him for feet health with other issues we need to consider but I won't put his barefoot pics up to keep up with the shoeing post.
Here are his feet in Jan 2012 on a video if anybody was interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK8X5h-8VTw

 

[somethingorother]

I disagree. The "work" of "horse professionals" is published on the internet all the time: questions about horse's condition (after being looked after by a nutritionist), videos and photos of lessons (with instructors), horses after physio treatments, specific training methods etc etc I can understand if someone specifically asks for certain things not to be published online and owner respecting that wish.
In all other respects, I think all horse professionals (and horse owners) could do with more responsibility for actions and be aware that their work might indeed end up somewhere on a forum (real one or virtual one).
I think the farrier's photos on here prove that if someone is proud of their work they would be happy to have it in the open for others to discuss.

I find this thread fascinating and very educational so many thanks to cptrayes for starting it.

I have loved looking at this thread, feet are so important, but some people take no interest and let their farrier slap anything on, any old way.

Maybe if they had posted pictures for 'non professionals' and other farriers to view, some horses would not have spent their lives uncomfortable when it was just bad shoes. It's hard to find a good farrier, many qualified farriers i have met, i would not use. There's been lots of nice feet on here though

 

[cptrayes]

Ooh interesting. I'm 90% certain nothing has been changed in the way he's shod for a good 18 months. The only big thing is that his shoes were removed at the end of october to december. But that was only 4 months ago. !

That's it! Barefoot feet usually grow a lot quicker than shod ones, it's the line from taking him barefoot. Now you can watch that line and you'll know that if it stays straight, it will be the foot balance that he wants. If it deviates again then you will know that either the shoeing is not balanced or that he is just a horse who will benefit from a period out of shoes every year.

 

[MissMistletoe]

I have loved looking at this thread, feet are so important, but some people take no interest and let their farrier slap anything on, any old way.

Maybe if they had posted pictures for 'non professionals' and other farriers to view, some horses would not have spent their lives uncomfortable when it was just bad shoes. It's hard to find a good farrier, many qualified farriers i have met, i would not use. There's been lots of nice feet on here though

Agreed!

Please let's keep this thread alive. It's been and will continue to be a great educational tool.

 

[cptrayes]

I am really enjoying this thread, so I thought I would add my pics.

Sorry for the picture overload & size (I have taken pictures, every (bar one! I think) shoeing for many years now ....

I would really appreciate any comments, positive or negative, as I am open to anything (I think!! )

Shoeing 24th April 2010

Shoeing 5th June 2010

Shoeing 2nd September 2011

Shoeing 15th October 2011

Shoeing 6th January 2012

Your horse has some infection in the hoof wall that looks to me to be pretty severe. If your farrier cannot suggest how to put it right I think that you need to look at two things:

1. disinfection. there are several products which will do this, I use hydrogen peroxide at 3% and I would be using it daily on those feet.

2. nutrition. Crumbling hoof wall like that is often caused by dietary problems. The first guess is always too much sugar, but mineral imbalances can be an issue too. If you do a search on the forum you will find plenty of information about both.

Unless you know that yoru horse has a metabolic problem like Cushings and are already treating it, it looks to me like you could have some nasty trouble brewing there that needs to be got on top of.

 

[whisp&willow]

South of you .

thought so!

 

[Tinypony]

Very interesting thread, thanks to Cptrayes and all the people who have kindly contributed.

Eaglestone, I'd be a bit worried about those hooves, but to be fair to the farrier, would you be able to tell us what he says is going on and what he suggests doing about it? I wouldn't want to worry you if everything's under control, but if not then you could get some seriously useful help via this thread.