Brave people post "good shoeing" pix please

[Clava]

now for some really odd feet, poor boy!
Any views welcome?, Just had this fellow since August last year, he was shod, hes 17.2 short coupled Westfalian gelding.http://s256.photobucket.com/albums/hh162/horses01466/

I can't see any shoes?

 

[Tamba]

sorry, not shod at min, but want to know what people think of his heels(pretty please)

 

[Tamba]

In contrast, here is my other gelding, but he is flat footed, and shod,
Does his heel looked slightly collapsed, to anyone??, just looking for any advice, as farrier doesnt think he looks too bad

 

[Tamba]

He is slightly pigeon toed, here, you can see,
Not great photos though, but it was so windy in the yard, they wouldnt co operate with my, so had to take these in the field.

 

[Tamba]

 

[CatStew]

This thread is really interesting, thank you!

I'll try and take some pics of my horses' feet over the weekend and post them on here. I personally think that our farrier is good, but I don't know a huge amount about feet and shoeing, so it will be interesting to see what others think!

 

[Tamba]

 

[KSR]

I dare not post, I'm really enjoying this thread.. I have one horse out of 8 (two recently deceased) with shoes.. His is a troubled story.. He's always been flat and shod and was later found to have been shod before he was 2 which I am led to believe can lead to dropping of the soles? I bought him at 4..

Found an exceptional farrier at 6 who indicated he had had Lami in the past and put him in natural balance shoes and brought his feet back to a more normal shape and functionality.. Front toes came back a couple inches and backs one or so.. They'd also been rather flared.. These changes were over a couple of years..

He moved out of the area, my YO moved to France and I spent the following 3 years struggling with farriers who put him in bar shoes then not, then trying to cripple him by taking his backs off and putting normals on front, then more bar shoes, then not.. All the while his feet were gradually spreading and his toes lengthening again despite my protestations and queries as I knew what was best for him..

It all came to a head autumn 2010 when he went slightly lame for the first time hacking down a hill.. Farrier and vet said there was no problem but he was virtually crippled by the November.. I had X-rays done to find pedal rotation.. He had heartbars back on with plastic type stuff put in the middle.. His soles were very poor and soft and he was struggling a lot.. And i was not being entertained, nor my opinions.. The horse was obviously in a lot of pain and very resistant to the shoeing so much that i did seriously consider pts but wanted to try find my original farrier as his last chance..

Thank God I found him.. April 2011 til now he has been commuting from Brighton to try to help.. Horse virtually sound from the first shoeing.. He was back in natural balance, shoes back on the back and away we go.. Since the last shoeing he is in steward clogs on front following the development of a crack at the coronary band on his better front foot.. He is a bit tender but I imagine it's due to having his whole sole in contact with a flat surface for the first time since a baby? He has also been able to comfortably weight bear on each front whilst the shoe is being changed..

His wall is improving slowly and his soles and frogs are much firmer and better quality.. He has gone back down two shoe sizes and is marvellous currently.. The main problem at the moment is that this is last years seriously compromised, weak, rubbish wall tissue.. I am having more X-rays done this week or next, when the vets get back to me with an appointment, to check on what's happening inside.. P3 has been stable since November 2010.. I get X-rays done every 6 months to be sure..

Unfortunately my iPhone spacked out when being updated so I have to try to find sole pics etc but I have the X-rays and a pic of the crack from the day before his last but one shoeing was due.. I was sending stressy photos to my farrier whilst he was at the suppliers to make sure he had everything he needed..

I'm sure I have left loads out.. This horse is my baby, we are taking it day by day, he's lucky but I'm not sure he's not on borrowed time.. Cross fingers he will continue to improve..

 

[Garnet]

KSR, that is terrifying P3 rotation isn't it? You must have been worried sick. Thank goodness you managed to find your original farrier again. How is your farrier treating the crack? I'm interested because I've never seen one at the top of the hoof before.

 

[Garnet]

Tamba,
I am interested in your shod horse, who seems to have a very deep cleft in the frog which appears to extend back between the bulbs of the heel - is that what is known as sheared heels? Does he ever get thrush or similar infections in there? How does it compare with the other feet?
I am asking because my horse once had a horrible injury from a bramble which sliced up into the cleft of his frog between the bulbs of his heels, so I am always anxious that the area may open up again. My foot photos are on the previous page - it was his off hind and the scar can barely be seen now, although it makes the join between the frog and the bulbs of the heels a bit rough.

 

[KSR]

Steward clogs at the last shoeing.. The crack hasn't changed any so it must be working for now.. Farrier is due any day so I will be able to post more after he has been..

http://www.hopeforsoundness.com/ishop/products/EDSS-Steward-Clog.html

http://www.hopeforsoundness.com/edss/store/new/clogabstract.html

 

[Tamba]

KSR, that is terrifying, you must have felt very helpless, which is how Im feeling now, with my unshod warmblood, with odd feet.
Its so hard to know how to put things right, when you take advise from your farrier, you are putting your trust in them, and how difficult it is, to ask another farrier for an opinion, must just dont want tio get involved.. its so tough, I hope theres no further damage done to his pedal bone , fingers crossed for you X

 

[Tamba]

(

Tamba,
I am interested in your shod horse, who seems to have a very deep cleft in the frog which appears to extend back between the bulbs of the heel - is that what is known as sheared heels? Does he ever get thrush or similar infections in there? How does it compare with the other feet?

Hi, I was just taking a look again at your feet pics, yes, they are similar to my lads.., I must admit, no, he doesnt get thrush, unlike my other dressage boy, who has been plagued,since about december, finally now, seem to have got to the bottom of the thrush by soaking his club foot everyday in warm water with salt and disinfectant (equmins, not ordinary), incase anyone is looking for a good product for it..
However, Orion, does suffer from sore heels,and the bulbs of his feet can be warm and sore after being ridden. Which is why Im considering egg bars, just to give him some extra protection, perfect result would be to take his shoes of, but hes had 2 years of due to arthritis and lameness, that Im not willing to take the risk. Not sure if its called sheared heels???, maybe some lovely person might tell me , if it is>

 

[KSR]

Thank you.. As I said to Garnet in a pm, I love all my horses equally but this one is the centre of my world.. Took him a walk inhand after a year in and this video was the result - ended up walking like I was defying gravity with my back in his shoulder back to my yard.. Please excuse the smack, it's usually only for a kick I do that :/

As long as he is this comfortable on his feet, unbuted too, I have hope.. When he isn't feeling good and the light is his eyes fades I have no decision to make.. As my vet says he should be dead going off the X-rays, but in his case she said we will treat the horse and not the X-rays he is 16.2 purebred Cleveland bay, never lame til this

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt132/Embalmer01/d74e2223.mp4

 

[Tamba]

certainly looks perky on his feet in the video, bless himX Its hard, what age is he?, Orion is 16 in May, which is not that old to have arthritis, but there you go !

 

[KSR]

He's only 11, 12 in May.. It's bad no matter what the age :/ my problem is knowing how stoic horses are, how much do they hide from us regarding discomfort etc..

 

[floradora09]

That's it! Barefoot feet usually grow a lot quicker than shod ones, it's the line from taking him barefoot. Now you can watch that line and you'll know that if it stays straight, it will be the foot balance that he wants. If it deviates again then you will know that either the shoeing is not balanced or that he is just a horse who will benefit from a period out of shoes every year.

Ah ha! I'll keep an eye on it, although I do expect he's one which benefits from having a shoe break for a couple of months- farrier agrees.

Also, is it moorman (?) who hates the use of studs? Am considering re-shoeing him behind again for this season, but only so we can use studs. Couldn't have done without them really last year, and the only thing stopping me from putting shoes straight back on behind is a) the fact that it's two less shoes for him to lose (!) and b) there is some debate as to the horse having more grip barefoot.

Sorry. Not turing into a barefoot thread- just asking for opinions of studs...

 

[wellsat]

If you put those two things together, questionning by owners can, unfortunately, sometimes be interpreted as "trying to tell me what to do" and can be met with hostility. Sometimes it will be met with a poorly explained response simply because the farrier doesn't really like talking to people and doesn't communicate well verbally. Some farriers are brilliant communicators, of course , but maybe my description will ring bells with some of you

My current farrier is brilliant but I've always found it difficult to question farriers I've had in the past. I feel that I have no qualifications or experience other than owning my own horsses so who am I to question them?

 

[cptrayes]

sorry, not shod at min, but want to know what people think of his heels(pretty please)

Can youput up a post asking for opinions from barefooters, this is a shoes thread and most of the barefooters are probably not reading it anyway, and we don't want to defocus the thread from being about good shoeing. Ta!

 

[cptrayes]

In contrast, here is my other gelding, but he is flat footed, and shod,
Does his heel looked slightly collapsed, to anyone??, just looking for any advice, as farrier doesnt think he looks too bad

Tamba we need this picture with the camera down by the heel looking forwards over the foot from heel to toe. It looks as if he has one heel much higher than the other, but from this angle it could just be a trick of the light.

 

[Bernster]

Originally Posted by cptrayes

If you put those two things together, questionning by owners can, unfortunately, sometimes be interpreted as "trying to tell me what to do" and can be met with hostility. Sometimes it will be met with a poorly explained response simply because the farrier doesn't really like talking to people and doesn't communicate well verbally. Some farriers are brilliant communicators, of course , but maybe my description will ring bells with some of you

This ^ ^

I know exactly what you mean ! Silly really as I pay for a service, I really should ask more questions to check it's right but like many others on here, don't feel like I know enough to ask sensible ones. But this thread has been so good at making me think about what I have taken for granted. Am slightly daunted by the idea of posting pics in case they are considered terrible but am also fascinated by the comments so far.

I know there are only a couple of people posting 'substantive responses' but thank you as they are very interesting

 

[cptrayes]

Thank you.. As I said to Garnet in a pm, I love all my horses equally but this one is the centre of my world.. Took him a walk inhand after a year in and this video was the result - ended up walking like I was defying gravity with my back in his shoulder back to my yard.. Please excuse the smack, it's usually only for a kick I do that :/

As long as he is this comfortable on his feet, unbuted too, I have hope.. When he isn't feeling good and the light is his eyes fades I have no decision to make.. As my vet says he should be dead going off the X-rays, but in his case she said we will treat the horse and not the X-rays he is 16.2 purebred Cleveland bay, never lame til this

http://i605.photobucket.com/albums/tt132/Embalmer01/d74e2223.mp4

KSR you've had a horrific time with this horse, haven't you. His feet look like they belong to a horse who is metabolically challenged in a big way (IR, EMS, EPSM, Cushings). I have heard of more and more Cleveland Bays with challenging foot quality and I'm beginning to wonder if there is something genetic going on in the breed, like they recently found in Connemaras.

 

[cptrayes]

Ah ha! I'll keep an eye on it, although I do expect he's one which benefits from having a shoe break for a couple of months- farrier agrees.

Also, is it moorman (?) who hates the use of studs? Am considering re-shoeing him behind again for this season, but only so we can use studs. Couldn't have done without them really last year, and the only thing stopping me from putting shoes straight back on behind is a) the fact that it's two less shoes for him to lose (!) and b) there is some debate as to the horse having more grip barefoot.

Sorry. Not turing into a barefoot thread- just asking for opinions of studs...

As a barefooter I always accept that people have to shoe if they want studs. I don't think it's in doubt that studs allow you to put more sideways pressure on a horse's joints than you can do without them, and that studs in front cause more concussion on landing after a fence because the feet can't move under the forward pressure, so the joints must absorb it.

But that said, most jumping horses compete happily with studs in year after year; they give the rider confidence that the horse can be sent on safely and that confidence from the rider inspires the horse, and some horses are not naturally balanced enough when they are young to jump confidently without them unless the rider is able to help them.

I can't see studs ever being banned, so the challenge is to shoe as well as possible to use the studs as safely as possible. Hopefully this thread will have helped with that a bit

 

[KSR]

Yeah, his feet are challenging.. I've had him tested for everything and he's clear, it's purely feet.. He is the only one of my 4 CBs that has problems, his sisters feet were second to none.. He's always been restricted on grazing and feed, my only problem has been farriers.. I am suspicious as to why a pet 2yo would be shod though without some kind of underlying problem..

I agree though, I've heard of a few people with problems in recent months.. Perhaps its a new thing that's coming in with the breed.. I sincerely hope not though..

 

[floradora09]

As a barefooter I always accept that people have to shoe if they want studs. I don't think it's in doubt that studs allow you to put more sideways pressure on a horse's joints than you can do without them, and that studs in front cause more concussion on landing after a fence because the feet can't move under the forward pressure, so the joints must absorb it.

But that said, most jumping horses compete happily with studs in year after year; they give the rider confidence that the horse can be sent on safely and that confidence from the rider inspires the horse, and some horses are not naturally balanced enough when they are young to jump confidently without them unless the rider is able to help them.

I can't see studs ever being banned, so the challenge is to shoe as well as possible to use the studs as safely as possible. Hopefully this thread will have helped with that a bit

Thanks for that.

I only ever use studs behind, and last year that seemed to do the job fine- so I'll only stud behind again this year. Usually I just use a small one on the outside, I'm always worried about him hurting himself if I use one on the inside too.

There's also the whole debate about whether one or two studs is best.. as far as I know two is more equal pressure but increases concussion, whereas one increases twisting forces but isn't so jarring?

There were several times last summer when I was SO glad I had studs, and I could ride properly knowing he wasn't about to slip over round a corner! It's just annoying having to shoe all the time just for the 2 or 3 times per month I'll need to use them

 

[amandap]

KSR you've had a horrific time with this horse, haven't you. His feet look like they belong to a horse who is metabolically challenged in a big way (IR, EMS, EPSM, Cushings).

Hope it's ok for me to comment. I agree here from the photos. So hard and frustrating trying to improve these horses sometimes ime. x

 

[domane]

Can't post other angles as I don't have him any more but this is a comparison before and after an 11-month period of barefoot rehabilitation on a 14yo ex-P2P TB who had a severe sugar intolerance. He only needed on Cleantrax soaking (per hoof) to kill all the bugs, never abscessed and was very patient whilst I taped up his toosies in Soulmate pads and gaffer tape and walked him around for 20 minutes a day for 4 months!!

For the record... the top of that hoof looked like this when he arrived....

 

[Tamba]

thanks Cp , ok, doke, will do, sorry !< I am slightly foot obcessed, but there is only one remedial farrier in our whole area, and its an absolute heart break, my farrier does his best, but quite newly qualified, and you do wonder, naturally, if everything is correct, esp, terrified now of my new horses feet, and how on earth Im going to keep him sound!!!!, wish I had trained as a farrier myself !

 

[KSR]

I've been thinking about the same thing to be honest.. I've asked my SuperFarrier to point me in the right kind of direction.. I have 3 horses and 2 ponies all barefoot/shoeless and the one whose X-rays I've posted.. The two others I lost 2010/11 never had a nail in their feet either.. They will get what they need if they need it but I'm very very funny about shoes and farriers currently :/

 

[pines of rome]

Oh Moorman, I so wish you were located in my area and were looking after my horses feet!