skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
Is this a condition where elbow scoring by breeders could reduce the risk?
Broken bones ‘badly broken’
- Thread starter Christmascinnamoncookie
- Start date
Is this a condition where elbow scoring by breeders could reduce the risk?
Bearsmum
Well-Known Member
Just seen your comments on Goose, Freds constant paw licking and hole turned out to be a grass seed - a particularly nasty one at that, though the vet soon cleaned it out, the real issue were the further seeds in his 'armpit' there were many and surgery to remove them appeared to have worked until a couple weeks later when it was swollen again so further surgery required to get the final bit out
Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
This is what we said at our third vet visit yesterday, possibly a grass seed has lodged in between his toes. I’m hoping it’s found, whatever it is, the vet reckons 50/50 chance of finding it
I just want him comfortable and without the buster collar, it won’t be helpful for Mitch’s recovery, although they’ll be supervised closely unless we’re at work. I’m hoping my OH takes some days off, I absolutely don’t want them relying on the dog walker, it isn’t fair on her/them.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
If he hasn't been already, I'd want Goose's elbows x-rayed as well in case the licking is an external reaction to internal discomfort caused by a similar issue.
Apologies if this has been done already.
Re the collar/recovery, I'd definitely be crating Mitch/confining him to a smaller space solo, when he cannot be monitored, until he's fully healed.
Has he has the surgery yet?
Apologies if this has been done already.
Re the collar/recovery, I'd definitely be crating Mitch/confining him to a smaller space solo, when he cannot be monitored, until he's fully healed.
Has he has the surgery yet?
Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
Scanning needs doing, agreed. He’s very focused on the paw and the abscess between digits indicates a localised problem, he hasn’t been allowed to chew so hasn’t created this. The vet said it’s very typical of the body trying to expel a foreign body.
Re crating, we’re going to see how he is. He doesn’t like his crate and whilst I think he needs confining, I’m reluctant to restrain/upset him or have him pressed against the bars, although his crate is huge. If they are alone, we can easily separate them so he can be comfortable. I’ll take the vet’s advice, of course.
Surgery was yesterday afternoon. The vet phoned half an hour ago to say he’s putting his foot to the floor and using the joint but not weight bearing. He’s in pain as is to be expected, so they’re keeping him in today, which we knew. The operation went well-we spoke to the surgeon last night who was pleased with how it went. We were worried because he says the bone often hardens too much which obviously makes pinning it harder. Once he’s rehabbed, we’ll see about getting his other elbow pinned.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
That’s such a relief.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Glad the op went well!
wren123
Well-Known Member
Oh I'm so sorry to read this.
I'm pleased the operation went well.
I'm pleased the operation went well.
oldandgold
Well-Known Member
Glad that everything went well, fingers and legs being crossed for an uneventful recovery. Few more ear rubs on the way if needed
Pearlsacarolsinger
Up in the clouds
I'm glad that everything is going well. Wishing him a speedy recovery.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
Very Glad the op went well .
Would he accept being in one of those doggy play pens they are less claustrophobic than a crate .
Would he accept being in one of those doggy play pens they are less claustrophobic than a crate .
druid
Well-Known Member
Yes, I score all my Springers for elbows and hips but we are few and far between unfortunately in the working world.
Glad the surgery went well, hope he's home soon.
Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
Trouble is, elbow/hip scoring is usually x rays (I think!) and the orthopaedic surgeon says minor fissures might not show so you’d need scans? He mentioned CT scans for Goose. Do you do both?
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
The trouble is (sorry CT!) that they are so few and far between (health tested dogs) that I’ve no idea how you would be able to find a litter. It is a shame but hopefully they will follow Labradors in it becoming more common. Although you still see plenty of workers (labs) that are proudly bred from generations of untested parents, it seems crocked by 8 is normal/acceptable to a lot of people.
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
Thanks, druid.
It is disappointing then that health testing isn't being done when it could be.
Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
Parents have lots of health tests, I posted the clear AMS report when talking about Goose’s determination to chew the paw. There aren’t hip/elbow scores, as you say, Clodagh, workers don’t often have the relevant tests. Lots of DNA/eye tests, possibly more, we received a lot of paperwork, can’t remember. I’ll have a look later, Goose is having afternoon cuddles with his new toy on my knee.
Christmascinnamoncookie
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Apparently so, minus values being desirable, of course. Their co-efficient is low, I remember, but of course that’s useless if there’s a genetic issue.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
And the trouble is no one would report exploding elbows in their stud offspring, so they would be irrelevant anyway.
druid
Well-Known Member
No, I xray and hope for the best. I have had iohc picked up on an xray at 1yo for screening.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
The scheme I use does a separate x-ray (from hips/elbows/spine) post 12 months which can indicate potential likelihood of OCD (yes/no), is the BVA doing that yet?
Seeing as working dogs generally land on their front end when negotiating an obstacle, I don't know why it isn't a priority for many breeders to test their stock. Yeah, 'if it can't jump cleanly, don't breed from it':used to be the way of things but we all know that's not happening either.
Seeing as working dogs generally land on their front end when negotiating an obstacle, I don't know why it isn't a priority for many breeders to test their stock. Yeah, 'if it can't jump cleanly, don't breed from it':used to be the way of things but we all know that's not happening either.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
Brandy was identified to have elbow fissures at about 6 months, after x rays for lameness. Our vet couldn’t see a problem but Dick Whites reviewed them and said fissures in the growth plates. Her sire (a popular trials champion) was apparently renowned for throwing bad elbows. It was before x rays for elbows was that common (or before I’d heard of it anyway!).
Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
They’ve picked up the fissure on the other leg via x ray, I’d love to know how big it has to be before it’s visible on an x ray.
I remember Jake jumping off an 8-10ft drop to get back to us, he didn’t hesitate, guess he didn’t have any issues, shame about the double TPLO!
And this is why we like referrals! The vet in Ross, bless her, literally said ‘I mean, I can have a go’ I thanked her and said ‘We’ll be going to an orthopaedic specialist, thanks’. When Jake snapped his first cruciate, the vet at the time said he could ‘fix it with wire’. I suppose he could have, but again, we were like ‘Er, no, thanks, can we have a referral, please?’
I mean, this explains the lameness when he was a youngster, I’m sure I remember you mentioning Brandy’s issues when I posted about Mitch way back in 2022 but then the RVC said there was nothing wrong with him.
I’m concerned the insurance might say it’s pre-existing given he’s had prior investigations. Good job we’re selling that house! 
SkylarkAscending
Well-Known Member
As I have extensive experience of very different congenital issues in a different breed, having now read the whole thread for the first time this does not fill me with joy in any way.
If I’m entirely blunt - and yes that’s my reputation I know! - you sound to have been sold a total pup by the breeders
Quite clearly hereditary issues here for me, the breeders should be ashamed
If I’m entirely blunt - and yes that’s my reputation I know! - you sound to have been sold a total pup by the breeders
Quite clearly hereditary issues here for me, the breeders should be ashamed
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
They’ve picked up the fissure on the other leg via x ray, I’d love to know how big it has to be before it’s visible on an x ray.
I remember Jake jumping off an 8-10ft drop to get back to us, he didn’t hesitate, guess he didn’t have any issues, shame about the double TPLO!
I mean, it explains the lameness when he was a youngster. I’m concerned the insurance might say it’s pre-existing given he’s had prior investigations. Good job we’re selling that house!
It's not the jump itself or the willingness to do so, it's how they take off and land and how they recover. I have watched numerous dogs taking off and landing over the 1m hurdle (not always at full height) and it's something I've always paid very close attention to (I stand to the side, where you can see everything). It's a better way to see if there are any issues rather than out socially (where a lot of dogs will put their feet on things to get over, etc). Not something I'm pleased to say but I was able to call issues in two dogs at my club, one medium ED and one borderline/still approved.
Appreciate the gundogs have a different jumping style.
Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
I think that’s a very useful talent! Mitch is not massively adventurous, he’s pretty much always in sight, has decided to avoid other dogs that are his size or bigger and rarely does anything bar run on the flat. Not a wild springer when out and we don’t take them anywhere too exciting bar quite steep slopes occasionally. I think, given the fissure on the other leg is visible on an x ray plus his nasty lameness episode as a youngster, it may be of a reasonable size.
I’m now wondering if it’s worth x raying Goose on Monday given he’s going to be sedated anyway. Might get the OH to ask, although I think I’d rather he was done by a specialist who has looked for this kind of problem many times before.
I’m now wondering if it’s worth x raying Goose on Monday given he’s going to be sedated anyway. Might get the OH to ask, although I think I’d rather he was done by a specialist who has looked for this kind of problem many times before.
druid
Well-Known Member
It's not about jumping in ESS, it's the twisting/hard turns when hunting for the most part that puts the pressure on.
druid
Well-Known Member
You need a very carefully positioned view to see the fissures.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
I mean, this explains the lameness when he was a youngster, I’m sure I remember you mentioning Brandy’s issues when I posted about Mitch way back in 2022 but then the RVC said there was nothing wrong with him.
Did he actually ever have an x-ray of the elbows for, or as if for scoring/in that position?
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Fair enough, we have a few explosive exercises in the routine but it's always been the jump/landing where I can see it present, if that makes sense.