druid
Well-Known Member
You won't see anything other than bad iohc on the flexed elbow view where you'll see density changes or arthritic changes. You need a very nicely positioned craniocaudal.
Broken bones ‘badly broken’
- Thread starter Christmascinnamoncookie
- Start date
You won't see anything other than bad iohc on the flexed elbow view where you'll see density changes or arthritic changes. You need a very nicely positioned craniocaudal.
druid
Well-Known Member
IOHC is part of the ED complex but not the sort that presents in most dogs like GSDs. They tend to be intermittently lame from relatively young and then go catastrophically or be 100% sound then fracture.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
No worries. I've not had the other view done yet. I was just wondering in terms of the explorations CT had done previously.
CorvusCorax
'It's only a laugh, no harm done'
Thanks, every day is a school day!
Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
PM’d youAs I have extensive experience of very different congenital issues in a different breed, having now read the whole thread for the first time this does not fill me with joy in any way.
If I’m entirely blunt - and yes that’s my reputation I know! - you sound to have been sold a total pup by the breeders
Quite clearly hereditary issues here for me, the breeders should be ashamed
druid
Well-Known Member
Having looked at the breed survey for GSD recently it's admirable how much work goes into breed health
Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
Honestly, I’d have to look back at old messages, it was 2 years ago and I just can’t remember but I seem to recall that by the time he got to the RVC, they couldn’t find anything wrong on a work up, hence they thought there were no issues and didn’t carry out further tests. I don’t remember x rays and we didn’t think to ask when they sent him home with a fit note.
I agree with Clodagh re the lack of hips/elbows scoring in some workers, obviously not all. Equally, I can’t imagine that many breeders test for AMS/DNA/PRA/fucisodosis, this breeder did. I’ve posted the clear AMS tests before.
druid
Well-Known Member
Lots more do dna and nothing further because it's easy. Cheek swab at home and pop it in the mail.
Dysplasia rads and eyes cost more to test and require vet involvement.
Did they perhaps do the dna after the oops mating? (Good on them)
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
Reading all the above (very interesting) I assume my vet must have done the special angle x rays as I presume she was concerned about the risk of a fissure.
Anyway we were very lucky and it never did break.
I hope CT that the other 3 elbows you may have to deal with are much less troublesome.
Anyway we were very lucky and it never did break.
I hope CT that the other 3 elbows you may have to deal with are much less troublesome.
Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
Yes, I think they did everything as soon as the puppies were on the ground. I don't think they deserve to be called bad breeders, they did everything right bar elbow /hip scoring as soon as they could. I know mum was young.
I think we want a specialist to do any further x rays/scans.
druid
Well-Known Member
I don't think they can be branded bad breeders, just naive perhaps and you wouldn't be scoring a bitch while pregnant or feeding pups. It's a risk you take buying for from untested stock, or lines you don't know inside out. Finding tested workers often means a long wait and being more restricted in litters to chose from
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
I’m so sorry this is happening to your boy CT loads of healing vibes for him and thoughts (hugs) for you too 
Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
Thanks. We have said he will get everything he needs, good job we have the wherewithal to ensure he gets everything he needs. I said to the surgeon 'What happens if you can't afford £5K up front?' and he said people talk about selling their house.I’m so sorry this is happening to your boy CT loads of healing vibes for him and thoughts (hugs) for you too
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I wonder if amputation would be possible? And cheaper? Not saying it’s a road you’d want to take but if you were really on your uppers. Or is the broken bit too far in or something?Thanks. We have said he will get everything he needs, good job we have the wherewithal to ensure he gets everything he needs. I said to the surgeon 'What happens if you can't afford £5K up front?' and he said people talk about selling their house.
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
I hope he has a good recovery. As long as you have lifetime cover with a decent insurance company they should pay out, maybe for physio too as I know how much that helped my little lad after leg surgery.
It's a shame there seems to be such reluctance amongst breeders of working gundogs to health test and buyers are happily to overlook this and just go on performance. The same thing happens in agility though refreshingly more people do seem to be health testing nowadays. As someone who has been health testing GSDs since the 70s it saddens me that the opportunity is there to significantly improve the health of many breeds but people are reluctant to do so.
It's a shame there seems to be such reluctance amongst breeders of working gundogs to health test and buyers are happily to overlook this and just go on performance. The same thing happens in agility though refreshingly more people do seem to be health testing nowadays. As someone who has been health testing GSDs since the 70s it saddens me that the opportunity is there to significantly improve the health of many breeds but people are reluctant to do so.
Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
Holy heck, it occurred to me when I thought it might be beyond repair. I doubt any vet would suggest that in light of poor finances, they’d want to fix the dog. It’s the elbow, looking at the x ray, the surgeon would need to haul the bone down as it was parallel to the joint, shows the impact!
Someone at the normal vet was on about a payment plan whilst there with their cat who needed de-matting and someone else phoned for an appointment and had the receptionist repeat the appointment fee twice, having not needed the vet for 8 years (lucky person!) and clearly not understanding that it’s now £50!
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I’m wandering off topic (again!) but I’m pup hunting for the spring and a respected breeder I know will be having a litter. Got the pedigree names and the bitch has 2/1 elbows and the sire has positive EBV’s. There was a maybe explanation for the elbow but the sire choice compounded the easy (in the end) decision. So even people that do test don’t always seem to worry too much. Been said ad infinitum but the KC needs to start only registering litters that have passed recommended health tests.
MurphysMinder
Well-Known Member
Sadly this doesn’t surprise me . It may have changed now but the Assured breeders scheme would allow a dog with maximum hip and elbow score to be bred from , the wording only said they must be tested , no maximum score specified . I actually know very few good Gsd breeders who are with the scheme now , majority left when it was realised what was happening .
Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
They need to stop allowing the registration of litters from ‘health tested’ dogs with high hip/elbow scores. I’ve seen people post on here over the years saying the dam/sire has scores that are huge yet are still producing and allowed to register litters from these dogs. The KC are not fit for purpose (imo). Some years ago, somebody posted about a cavalier who is known to have syringomyelia and had produced in excess of 50 litters. Just amazes me that this is allowed.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
Are you getting a lab?
wren123
Well-Known Member
Yes
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
You've hit the nail on the head. Where is the incentive for breeders to carry out hip and elbow scoring on a breed known to suffer from hip and elbow dysplasia when people will buy the puppies anyway.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
I don’t understand why you would take the risk. The effort I have put into my dogs by the time they are out earning is immense. Let alone the love and emotional involvement.
I know not everyone gives their dogs long retirements and tbf if you have 30 or so I can see why but purely from a financial POV you’d want 8 years work in return? Surely.
Triallers I suppose longevity doesn’t matter, win a FT or several and retire to stud. Saying that it’s the triallers who are the most reliable testers.
But the dog I mentioned above is a prolific and fashionable sire, producing many litters.
I know not everyone gives their dogs long retirements and tbf if you have 30 or so I can see why but purely from a financial POV you’d want 8 years work in return? Surely.
Triallers I suppose longevity doesn’t matter, win a FT or several and retire to stud. Saying that it’s the triallers who are the most reliable testers.
But the dog I mentioned above is a prolific and fashionable sire, producing many litters.
druid
Well-Known Member
It costs about 10-15k average to make up a FTCh in training days, game, memberships, entries, travel costs and that's without the food/vet/buying the pup. No point in that investment if its going to go lame at 2 or 3yo.
Clodagh
Well-Known Member
Which makes the lab I mentioned so very odd.
Christmascinnamoncookie
Fais pas chier!
Poor little wounded soldier, whined all the way home, fast asleep in 2 minutes once home. The spots! Goose was delighted to see him.
SilverLinings
Well-Known Member
Somehow I had missed this thread- so sorry to hear what an eventful week you, Mr CT and the dogs have had @Cinnamontoast. It is horrible when they injure themselves, and always seems worse when you didn't see exactly what happened.
It's great news that the surgery went well, and that the possibility of an issue in the other elbow has been identified before it becomes a problem. Mitch looks happy to be home, I hope he recovers well and quickly.
Good luck for Goose's paw issue, and I am keeping my fingers crossed that his elbow x-rays/scans turn out to be fine. I hope they are sensible patients and don't use boredom as an excuse to wind each other up
I hope you are ok after such a stressful few days x
It's great news that the surgery went well, and that the possibility of an issue in the other elbow has been identified before it becomes a problem. Mitch looks happy to be home, I hope he recovers well and quickly.
Good luck for Goose's paw issue, and I am keeping my fingers crossed that his elbow x-rays/scans turn out to be fine. I hope they are sensible patients and don't use boredom as an excuse to wind each other up
I hope you are ok after such a stressful few days x
BallyRoanBaubles
Buys real biscuits
Glad he’s home CT hope his recovery goes smoothly
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
So glad he's home CT, he'll be so much happier. Fingers crossed for a trouble free recovery.
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