Broken bones ‘badly broken’

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

He’s taking the mick already, tried dragging me across the green, obviously was not allowed, we are going to be super strict. Goose tried to shoulder barge him in the garden because Mitch does it to him so they can’t be together out there, it is basically a giant play pen for them, they do play fight (nicely, never any nastiness) which can’t happen. Moving between rooms, he’s on a lead, weight bearing well, had his tea, was starving because he wouldn’t eat what they offered at the vets, we did tell them he’s picky. He’s lying on the bad elbow, there are 4 beds he can choose from, plus a crate in both rooms.

 

[SkylarkAscending]

I don't think they can be branded bad breeders, just naive perhaps and you wouldn't be scoring a bitch while pregnant or feeding pups. It's a risk you take buying for from untested stock, or lines you don't know inside out. Finding tested workers often means a long wait and being more restricted in litters to chose from

Surely that’s the whole idea of responsible dog ownership? You don’t breed from dogs with known issues, you don’t have accidental litters & you do your research and wait patiently for a well bred pup from health tested parents.

Or is that just me

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Surely that’s the whole idea of responsible dog ownership? You don’t breed from dogs with known issues, you don’t have accidental litters & you do your research and wait patiently for a well bred pup from health tested parents.

Or is that just me

What, like you did with your three?! Not! How incredibly hypocritical. This is not you being ‘blunt’, this is you being really bitchy. Not one other person has been nasty on here. Do you really think I need this right now? You should be thoroughly ashamed of having a go right now. The hypocrisy is unbelievable.

 

[druid]

Surely that’s the whole idea of responsible dog ownership? You don’t breed from dogs with known issues, you don’t have accidental litters & you do your research and wait patiently for a well bred pup from health tested parents.

Or is that just me

All my dogs are fully health tested and from well thought out litters with specific lines I wanted to bring in. I'm on a 3 year wait so far for a specific pup. Our next homebred litter has a wait list into double figures for a breed that usually whelps 3-4. I think I'm doing responsible dog ownership just fine....

 

[SkylarkAscending]

All my dogs are fully health tested and from well thought out litters with specific lines I wanted to bring in. I'm on a 3 year wait so far for a specific pup. Our next homebred litter has a wait list into double figures for a breed that usually whelps 3-4. I think I'm doing responsible dog ownership just fine....

I wasn’t aiming my post at anyone - either you or CT - they were general thoughts about dog breeding as I believe you had suggested that the breeders were niave rather than irresponsible in this case.

I agree with a lot of what has been said on the thread about the KC assured breeders scheme, I agree with the comment made about the cavalier stud dog who sired multiple litters, we have the ability to improve things but often it seems people don’t want to (particularly in the showing world)

 

[SkylarkAscending]

What, like you did with your three?! Not! How incredibly hypocritical. This is not you being ‘blunt’, this is you being really bitchy. Not one other person has been nasty on here. Do you really think I need this right now? You should be thoroughly ashamed of having a go right now. The hypocrisy is unbelievable.

I’m sorry you have chosen to take my comments personally CT, they were made in a general nature and were not aimed at you. Personally I had thought the thread had moved on to more general reflections of - for example - the shortcomings of some KC approved breeders etc. For example referencing that cavalier stud dog, discussing health testing in GSDs etc

I certainly wasn’t “having a go”’ at you
- I don’t read your posts generally and have no idea of the history behind any of your dogs other than the limited info that I’ve read on this thread.

Incidentally I have two dogs not three….. George died last December, and in any case he was a rescue not purchased as a pup. My current two are fit and healthy in every way and don’t have any congenital issues….

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I'm glad he's home and doing well do far. Fingers crossed that the rest of his recovery goes smoothy

 

[SilverLinings]

I think it is incredibly easy for *most* of us to buy a puppy that has missed out on some sort of test that just may result in a health problem later in life. We may also not look far enough back/sideways in the family tree to see a potential problem. It is also easy to walk into a situation that is less than ideal but buy the puppy anyway because we've fallen for them. And however extensive the pre-breeding tests, buying any dog always carries a risk of future health problems.

All breeders should be behaving responsibly, but some never will, and some will out-and-out lie. There will also be accidental breedings, and if the puppies appear healthy they will quite rightly find homes with people who love them.

I thought I knew a reasonable amount about health testing for the breed I have, but since I last bought a puppy in 2007 I have learnt about further tests that are helpful, and new ones have become available. The last puppy I was heavily involved in buying was my mother's (in 2015), and I checked her breeding and made sure she'd had tested clear for everything possible; one of her litter mates still had hip dysplasia.

CT it sounds as though you give your dogs a great life, are a responsible owner, and that whether Mitch and Goose have a congenital disease or not won't change how much you love them, and that's the important thing

 

[druid]

I wasn’t aiming my post at anyone - either you or CT - they were general thoughts about dog breeding as I believe you had suggested that the breeders were niave rather than irresponsible in this case.

I agree with a lot of what has been said on the thread about the KC assured breeders scheme, I agree with the comment made about the cavalier stud dog who sired multiple litters, we have the ability to improve things but often it seems people don’t want to (particularly in the showing world)

Sorry, you quoted me so I assued you were talking to me. There's lots of inadequacies in the breeding world. All you can do is the best yourself and try help others to do the same

 

[SkylarkAscending]

Sorry, you quoted me so I assued you were talking to me. There's lots of inadequacies in the breeding world. All you can do is the best yourself and try help others to do the same

I agree - Mum spent many years doing exactly that in her breed, unfortunately others weren’t doing so in the same breed

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

I think it is incredibly easy for *most* of us to buy a puppy that has missed out on some sort of test that just may result in a health problem later in life. We may also not look far enough back/sideways in the family tree to see a potential problem. It is also easy to walk into a situation that is less than ideal but buy the puppy anyway because we've fallen for them. And however extensive the pre-breeding tests, buying any dog always carries a risk of future health problems.

All breeders should be behaving responsibly, but some never will, and some will out-and-out lie. There will also be accidental breedings, and if the puppies appear healthy they will quite rightly find homes with people who love them.

I thought I knew a reasonable amount about health testing for the breed I have, but since I last bought a puppy in 2007 I have learnt about further tests that are helpful, and new ones have become available. The last puppy I was heavily involved in buying was my mother's (in 2015), and I checked her breeding and made sure she'd had tested clear for everything possible; one of her litter mates still had hip dysplasia.

CT it sounds as though you give your dogs a great life, are a responsible owner, and that whether Mitch and Goose have a congenital disease or not won't change how much you love them, and that's the important thing

Thank you, I very much appreciate your post. We said that Mitch has landed in the right home, he’s adored, we are fortunate to be able to afford whatever treatment he needs. We’ll be firing up the hot tub and bought him a life jacket yesterday.

We said the same about Zak, he was an extremely difficult dog to manage, many people would have re-homed him, but we took great care to ensure he was safe and kept other dogs safe as much as we could-3 incidents in 11 years, I think, 2 of which were others allowing their dog to approach him. We do our best regardless of circumstances, as I’m sure the vast majority of other owners do.

 

[CorvusCorax]

As an observation, there seems to be a school of thought that says if you are buying a dog 'just' as a pet then health tests on the parents are not important but this post and others prove that it's just as heartbreaking when things go wrong, whether the dog has a 'career' or not.

I must admit when the OP said the parents of these puppies were health tested I automatically assumed HD/ED were included in those tests and I would encourage all or any people reading this, considering buying a breed prone to these conditions or any dog you expect or want to have a high-octane, active lifestyle, to be very thorough in your research, going back as many generations as you can and speaking to people who know the lines/breeding.
We've all bought dogs who haven't been what they said on the tin when we were less experienced, it doesn't make us bad or daft, but for me anyway, the research I did on the problems informed my decision-making the next time round.

 

[SilverLinings]

I now have visions of Mitch kicking back in the hot tub with a glass of wine, but I presume you mean to use it for hydrotherapy?!

My dog of a lifetime was carefully chosen, but as she matured it became evident that she had some conformational weaknesses (not seen in the parents). That dog meant, and means, so much to me that she could have looked like the back end of a bus and I wouldn't have cared (she was actually very pretty). If I'd seen those faults in her mother I wouldn't have looked at the litter, and I would have missed out on spending 14 wonderful years with the best friend I'll ever have. And luckily the conformational faults ended up having no physical effect on her.

Bad breeders shouldn't be encouraged, and unhealthy traits absolutely should be bred out, but a good dog is much more than the sum of the paperwork it comes with.

 

[SilverLinings]

As an observation, there seems to be a school of thought that says if you are buying a dog 'just' as a pet then health tests on the parents are not important but this post and others prove that it's just as heartbreaking when things go wrong, whether the dog has a 'career' or not.

I must admit when the OP said the parents of these puppies were health tested I automatically assumed HD/ED were included in those tests and I would encourage all or any people reading this, considering buying a breed prone to these conditions or any dog you expect or want to have a high-octane, active lifestyle, to be very thorough in your research, going back as many generations as you can and speaking to people who know the lines/breeding.
We've all bought dogs who haven't been what they said on the tin when we were less experienced, it doesn't make us bad or daft, but for me anyway, the research I did on the problems informed my decision-making the next time round.

I honestly think that some 'pet' dogs actually take far more of a physical battering in their family homes than a lot of working dogs. On the whole working dogs don't tend to spend several days cooped up indoors and then go for a 4-6hr run all over the moors on a Sunday. They also don't have children competing to see how high they can be made to jump, and don't get pulled along by a bicycle when the owner wants to multi task and dog walk whilst trying to beat their best cycle training time. A lot of 'pet' dogs also don't see the vet until a problem becomes serious, because apparently 'he's only limping'.

And the only way to stamp out inherent diseases and weaknesses in a breed is to make sure ALL dogs are health tested before breeding. I think the only way to do this would be for the KC to take charge of it and make registration actually mean something, and there would also need to be a public awareness campaign to educate people of the importance of buying from KC-approved breeders (only if the scheme was vastly improved, it doesn't mean much in it's current state). The KC could be such a force for good, but sadly welfare doesn't seem to concern them.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I honestly think that some 'pet' dogs actually take far more of a physical battering in their family homes than a lot of working dogs. On the whole working dogs don't tend to spend several days cooped up indoors and then go for a 4-6hr run all over the moors on a Sunday. They also don't have children competing to see how high they can be made to jump, and don't get pulled along by a bicycle when the owner wants to multi task and dog walk whilst trying to beat their best cycle training time. A lot of 'pet' dogs also don't see the vet until a problem becomes serious, because apparently 'he's only limping'.

And the only way to stamp out inherent diseases and weaknesses in a breed is to make sure ALL dogs are health tested before breeding. I think the only way to do this would be for the KC to take charge of it and make registration actually mean something, and there would also need to be a public awareness campaign to educate people of the importance of buying from KC-approved breeders (only if the scheme was vastly improved, it doesn't mean much in it's current state). The KC could be such a force for good, but sadly welfare doesn't seem to concern them.

I absolutely agree. I'm very conservative with my dogs compared to most pet folks.

All of the health tests we do in these islands are voluntary/breeder/breed club driven.
On the continent, there's a line in the sand and if the test results go over the line the dog gets a breeding ban and progeny cannot be registered (no one would buy them anyway).

 

[druid]

I absolutely agree. I'm very conservative with my dogs compared to most pet folks.

All of the health tests we do in these islands are voluntary/breeder/breed club driven.
On the continent, there's a line in the sand and if the test results go over the line the dog gets a breeding ban and progeny cannot be registered (no one would buy them anyway).

I do think there's a balance. Germany's plans to ban use of carriers in DNA tests will be a struggle for many numerically small breeds.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I do think there's a balance. Germany's plans to ban use of carriers in DNA tests will be a struggle for many numerically small breeds.

Unfortunately the German Kennel Club was so busy fighting people who weren't the real enemy, that they have been blindsided by a very influential AR lobby.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I do think there's a balance. Germany's plans to ban use of carriers in DNA tests will be a struggle for many numerically small breeds.

In Lancashire heelers they still mate PLL carriers to clear because it is a vulnerable breed and if you removed the carriers it would affect the breed . Most breeders do dna test so hopefully it will be eradicated in the not too distant future.

 

[druid]

In Lancashire heelers they still mate PLL carriers to clear because it is a vulnerable breed and if you removed the carriers it would affect the breed . Most breeders do dna test so hopefully it will be eradicated in the not too distant future.

Using carriers (providing it is not a disease/issue that is expressed in carriers) to breed from if done responsibly is perfectly fine.

 

[druid]

Unfortunately the German Kennel Club was so busy fighting people who weren't the real enemy, that they have been blindsided by a very influential AR lobby.

Absolutely but it shows that that you can too far the other way. The IKC's new BOAS stance and Limited reg/not for breeding on all G3 will be the very first time anything like taking some control of health testing has happened here. About time too.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

And the only way to stamp out inherent diseases and weaknesses in a breed is to make sure ALL dogs are health tested before breeding. I think the only way to do this would be for the KC to take charge of it and make registration actually mean something, and there would also need to be a public awareness campaign to educate people of the importance of buying from KC-approved breeders (only if the scheme was vastly improved, it doesn't mean much in it's current state). The KC could be such a force for good, but sadly welfare doesn't seem to concern them.

Totally agree, hear hear!

 

[CorvusCorax]

Absolutely but it shows that that you can too far the other way. The IKC's new BOAS stance and Limited reg/not for breeding on all G3 will be the very first time anything like taking some control of health testing has happened here. About time too.

Yet and all I know someone with a registered dog who's parents are half siblings. I wish there was more uniformity.

 

[druid]

Yet and all I know someone with a registered dog who's parents are half siblings. I wish there was more uniformity.

I agree, but the new health committee do at least seem to be trying to make improvements which is a start!

 

[SilverLinings]

How is Mitch doing today CT? I hope he is feeling ok but not running you ragged by trying to do more than he should!

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Goose didn’t want to be left out. Wound exploration turned up nothing, I’m hoping whatever it was came out of the hole/was drawn out by the magnesium sulphate poultice. 2 weeks on lead.
Just used the O’Tom Twister to take a tick off Mitch’s cheek, going to check his crate for more. I’ve checked him. My OH has spent a lot of time outside, so he set Mitch up on the patio so he doesn’t get FOMO.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

How is Mitch doing today CT? I hope he is feeling ok but not running you ragged by trying to do more than he should!

He drove the OH nuts this morning with the whining, probably missing Goose and obviously wanting to be in on the action, but currently lying quietly on yet another bed. He’s extremely vocal anyway when we first come down. Seems happy enough, refused lunch because he’d seen the OH put tablets in it.

 

[SilverLinings]

Goose starting a summer trend for one sock there

It is nice that your OH has stopped Mitch's FOMO and he's been enjoying some time in the garden, not so good that he refused his lunch+tablets though. I hope he continues to recover well and that he manages to not overdo it (I know what spaniels are like ).

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

One sock and no top, very typical round here!

 

[skinnydipper]

Goose didn’t want to be left out. Wound exploration turned up nothing, I’m hoping whatever it was came out of the hole/was drawn out by the magnesium sulphate poultice. 2 weeks on lead.

Has Goose been checked for pain?

Hopefully doesn't have pain anywhere but as CC mentioned upthread, dogs lick to try and soothe themselves when they are in pain, sometimes even the floor or an object.

I'm pleased for you and Mitch that he is doing so well following his op.

 

[Clodagh]

Has Goose been checked for pain?

Hopefully doesn't have pain anywhere but as CC mentioned upthread, dogs lick to try and soothe themselves when they are in pain, sometimes even the floor or an object.

I'm pleased for you and Mitch that he is doing so well following his op.

Brandy used to obsessively lick her foreleg when her elbows were bad so that is maybe a possibility. I know you intend to get him x rayed anyway.