Can you dressage on a shoe string?

[Muddywellies]

I got to unaffiliated elementary dressage with a GP saddle and never having a days lesson since I had my horse. I even did our first and only novice test on a BD ticket and came just under half way out of the total field of 22 horses competing that day which was good for a first try.

I would often practice the dressage test in my head only as I never managed to be able to use half the school to practice my test unless I went up at silly o'clock on a weekends morning. I never had a shiny lorry or even particularly shiny tack. My clothes looked like they would fit Worzel Gummidge (in fact I quite often looked like him by the time I'd arrived at a venue) but we quite often won or got placed in our classes. I've seen filthy low value home bred horses turn up for competitions in filthy tack and beat those horses that are ten times their value. It means nothing. Having a nicely marked nice moving horse makes a difference. BUt so does the mindset of trying your hardest and not giving a damn what people think about you.

Wow - that's quite an achievement. Wonderful .
I think I'm struggling as I'm not a natural and not talented and as someone pointed out above, if you're not particularly talented then the costs will mount up as more training is needed. I do work very hard at it - 5.30am starts during the week. I put everything I can into it to the detriment of other things and people - it is donkeys years since we had a meal out let alone a holiday. And like you, until recently, we towed a very old trailer till we 'upgraded' to an even older lorry. I think I just need to re-assess and have a more realistic idea as to what I can achieve. I think the 'top hat and tails' comment, whilst said with very good intention, gave me a very distorted idea of what I could achieve.

 

[Hallo2012]

watch all the videos on youtube you can find, see if you can find any training videos from people you aspire to have lessons with?

also the horse magazine Australia have LOADS of dressage articles on line that i enjoy reading and often find little gems of ideas in.

do you have any friends whose opinions you respect, who would watch you ride and give you some CC? maybe you could take turns videoing each other and making some notes for each other to work on? (you would have to be very good friends to be able to do this though!)

 

[humblepie]

As you mention look at structured training, so that you have a plan albeit with only occasional lessons but that it all forms part of a bigger plan with what you can work on yourself being developed in between those lessons and when you go out to do a test plan on things that you can do and can do really well, so aim for that straight first centre line, get the circles the right shape and size, nail the halts etc. I also think as well that even with second hand gear etc you can really make an effort to look smart, so really nice plaits, etc. It doesn't get you any extra marks I am sure but helps you feel up there with the others. And of course there is that thing that it is supposed to be fun, so enjoy.

 

[Muddywellies]

As you mention look at structured training, so that you have a plan albeit with only occasional lessons but that it all forms part of a bigger plan with what you can work on yourself being developed in between those lessons and when you go out to do a test plan on things that you can do and can do really well, so aim for that straight first centre line, get the circles the right shape and size, nail the halts etc. I also think as well that even with second hand gear etc you can really make an effort to look smart, so really nice plaits, etc. It doesn't get you any extra marks I am sure but helps you feel up there with the others. And of course there is that thing that it is supposed to be fun, so enjoy.

You're absolutely right in what your saying. It's just that we're competing against a few pro riders now and it can just be a little disheartening, knowing how much I struggle, when in your class you have people who live dressage and who's horses are bred for the job. I have always managed to keep in mind that I'm on my own journey but after a few below par tests recently, this theory has gone out the window and all I see around me is people who are far better than me. I'm sure when I get my confidence back I won't be so aware of who's around me and I'll get back to concentrating on my own journey.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I've been where you are OP and what gave me a push out of the rut I was in was actually changing instructors. Sometimes you can get in a rut and stop improving, even with a good instructor who has got you so far.

I changed instructors to someone who gave me solid, positive advice and loads of training exercises I could do at home, our progression from there was rapid (medium to advanced in a year). It was a change of mindset of what we as a partnership could achieve and how to do it. I still only have lessons once or twice a month, but I can use what I learn at home so progress doesn't stall in between.

I have never gone up the levels before so it's the blind leading the blind, I needed a trainer who knew how to get to the higher levels but also wouldn't dismiss a bonkers cart horse, the lesson she taught me what true engagement and collection felt like was the game changer of how to get the higher marks and also get to the higher levels.

 

[SO1]

What level are you are now - sounds like it might be elementary and how long have been at this level? I am presuming when you have your lessons you take your score sheets and ask your instructor how you can improve on the areas where you have the lower marks?

What sort of non traditional dressage horse have you got? Could you aim for one of the associated championships so your aims are to be the best with that type of horse rather than trying to be better than horses bred for the job https://www.britishdressage.co.uk/competitions/associated_championships

If you have done well at the lower levels remember there will have been people in those classes who will have compared themselves to you and seen you ride and wondered perhaps if they would ever get that good.

Will you progress as quickly as someone who has a dressage schoolmaster horse and has access to lots of lessons probably not but it does not mean you won't progress. The plenty of people out there who don't have their own transport, cant afford lessons, don't have a sound horse or have other reasons for not being able to compete or progress as much as they would like. It so easy to get jealous of others who have more than you and then get a bit down about it.

Maybe like someone has suggested go to another instructor and get a 2nd opinion as if they think you have the potential to go further with the resources you have or if you have reached your limit.

Maybe plan a goal with your instructor that is achievable, they will have an idea of how fast you should be able to achieve improved results with the amount of lessons you have and the facilities you have.

Are there any training bursaries you can apply for, could you get enough money together to attend a weekend intensive camp perhaps?

 

[Leaping]

I think it can be done but as above you need to sit back and assess your goals.
Look at both long term and short term, if the long term goals are tailcoat then maybe forsake the short term 'lesser' goals so you can focus on the training and put the competition money towards the training.
Have a look at Steph Croxford for someone who made it without a mass of financial backing (hacking before work in the dark along the verges) https://mrpresidentiv.wordpress.com/background/
You might feel intimidated in the warm up by the posh horses and the riders in the posh gear, but in the actual arena the judge only has time to take in overall appearance, so it doesn't matter if your jacket is brand new £££££ or second hand, so long as its clean and tidy. With a less 'dressage bred' horse you do have to work harder to get the marks, with a horse that finds it naturally easy, that goes in a nice forwards rhythm and in balance it starts on an 8, with one less purpose bred you might be starting at 6s so have to work harder to get the judges to give you those higher marks by doing everything correctly.

There are also times when scores dip a little, its worth reading the sheets and seeing where the marks are being lost. Also check to see if that judge has judged you previously and have your scores gone up or down (or stayed the same) with that individual judge.

Personally in your position I would look at the calendar, look at long term and short term goals and decide where your priority is, and if its the long term goal then put aside the money that would be used for competitions (entry fees, fuel, etc) and put that towards more training, maybe save up for a camp where you can do 2 or 3 days with a couple of top level trainers (they are expensive but can be worthwhile, and probably more productive than a few months of competitions).

Don't give up the dream!

Also if you listen when you are out you will hear those who are in envy of your lorry, and others that you envy are envious of those with even smarter lorries, smarter horses etc. Also just because they have the money and all the gear doesn't mean they are any less insecure about their riding abilities.

 

[milliepops]

With a less 'dressage bred' horse you do have to work harder to get the marks, with a horse that finds it naturally easy, that goes in a nice forwards rhythm and in balance it starts on an 8, with one less purpose bred you might be starting at 6s so have to work harder to get the judges to give you those higher marks by doing everything correctly.

This is true. however i would add, that it's perfectly possible to have loads of fun and take part in bigger shows along the way even on a very average horse getting average scores.
My welsh is *so* not bred for the job, she is 14.2 and stumpy, not a flashy mover. She has been a mid-60s% horse at every level from Prelim to Inter 1. Talk about consistent. No, we aren't going to set the world on fire, but those scores have taken us to regionals and area festivals at every level, team competition, associated champs, RC champs, you name it. Everything I have wanted to aim for, we've done.

Yeah it would be nice to be on the top WB getting the 75% scores but in a way this has been a blessing because having not had stellar success at championships means I'm still eligible for lower levels on a new horse

 

[ihatework]

On the marking side of things a 7 is fairly good. You do not need a flashy horse to achieve a 7, irrespective of the level - you need to show a basically correct way of going and execute the movement accurately. So a mistake free test on a well trained bog pony will get you 70% under the majority of judges. With the odd blip you are still talking mid-high 60’s. This is a competitive score at all bar the upper levels of competition (national champs etc).

There are advantages to riding a non flashy exhuberant warmblood too - temperament, ride ability, balance etc which often means an amateur is more likely to succeed on a slightly less flash horse. Some of these fancy pants ones really do take extra skill to produce to their best.

I always think it’s much better to be the underdog surprising everyone than the 50k flash that has a melt down in a prelim 😜

 

[Mule]

This is true. however i would add, that it's perfectly possible to have loads of fun and take part in bigger shows along the way even on a very average horse getting average scores.
My welsh is *so* not bred for the job, she is 14.2 and stumpy, not a flashy mover. She has been a mid-60s% horse at every level from Prelim to Inter 1. Talk about consistent. No, we aren't going to set the world on fire, but those scores have taken us to regionals and area festivals at every level, team competition, associated champs, RC champs, you name it. Everything I have wanted to aim for, we've done.

Yeah it would be nice to be on the top WB getting the 75% scores but in a way this has been a blessing because having not had stellar success at championships means I'm still eligible for lower levels on a new horse

And I'd imagine you've become a better rider for it.

 

[Leaping]

This is true. however i would add, that it's perfectly possible to have loads of fun and take part in bigger shows along the way even on a very average horse getting average scores.
My welsh is *so* not bred for the job, she is 14.2 and stumpy, not a flashy mover. She has been a mid-60s% horse at every level from Prelim to Inter 1. Talk about consistent. No, we aren't going to set the world on fire, but those scores have taken us to regionals and area festivals at every level, team competition, associated champs, RC champs, you name it. Everything I have wanted to aim for, we've done.

Yeah it would be nice to be on the top WB getting the 75% scores but in a way this has been a blessing because having not had stellar success at championships means I'm still eligible for lower levels on a new horse

Exactly this - it is possible to get those marks - its just setting your expectations.

I think we have all been there when looking at the scoreboard seeing the smart dressage bred horses cruising round and breezing to 70% and sometimes it can be disheartening knowing that you and your horse have worked your socks off to get that 65%, but you just have to remember you are on your own journey and there will be others looking at the same scoreboard dreaming of the magical 60% and wishing they had a horse as good as yours.

 

[milliepops]

yup. I think the personal journey thing is what can help keep the average competitor sane! every time I have a big show or go up a level, my trainer and I decide what would be a good result for *us* as a combination. If we get a rosette as well then that's great, but it gives me a fairly objective way to judge our performance in a realistic way, rather than comparing against whoever might have turned up at the show. It's still aspirational but also achievable, I love being able to report back that we hit or exceeded our target (or would have done if I hadn't fluffed a change or something, lol!)

 

[paddi22]

The first thing that jumps out from your post is that you haven't pinpointed what the training issues are that are holding you back.
You need to put aside the excuses about facilities, vehicles etc - there are plenty of people in battered jeeps on unconventional horses doing well, and there are plenty of people who do 80% of their dressage schooling on hacks with no arenas.

Sit down and really analyse the areas you are weakest in, and then work out what the best use of your resources is.


Be proactive in making a training plan that makes the best value of your time and money. And make it longer term than just chasing scores. If you are chasing scores you are better stepping back and spending the money on training. If you are struggling to qualify, then all that will happen is you will be in the lower ranks on the championship day.

You would nearly be better taking 6 months off competing and ploughing all that money into training. There is no point entering a competition unless you feel fully prepped and confident you are at the right level. It is just wasted money that could have been better spent elsewhere, unless you are just going for a day out for fun.

What is the one main thing holding you back?


- If its an unconventional horse then you have to either accept it won't be wowing with 9s, or else pinpoint exactly how to build the muscle and strength. Or accept that, and sell the current horse and go buy a cheap exracer or the like, and bring a dressage rider who has a good eye and could spot potential. There are plenty of people who have trained up super ex-racers because they spotted a good walk or canter at an early stage. And you see plenty of them move up the levels with the right work.
- If the horse is struggling to learn moves, then pay a pro to ride the horse for a few sessions to teach it the moves
- If it's you struggling with riding movements, then get schoolmaster lessons. Ask friends or partners to get you gift vouchers for birthdays/xmas presents.
- Lessons don't need to be with a 150 quid an hour superstar rider. there are plenty of talented dressage riders who are naturally good teachers and much cheaper. Its just a case of looking around to get someone local who suits you. I found a 40 euro one who has a small arena at home I can use.
- Save money by riding tests at home and entering online dressage shows. You can review the video, ride tests a few times, and really study what the comments are in comparison to what you rode. They are judged by BD judges, so you get the comments without the cost of entries or diesel.

But the main thing is you haven't pinpointed exactly what the training issues are that are holding you back . And until you know exactly what they are you won't be able to fix them.

Also it is interesting to sit down and work out what your definition of success is? Saw this on facebook early and thought it was good.
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2400530616841895

 

[Bernster]

This is heartening to hear (is that a word?!) MP. We’re a fairly consistent mid 60s right now although I think that’s more to do with rubbish rider than what the horse is capable of, but if we can have even half your success at our (prelim) level, I’d be super proud!

This is true. however i would add, that it's perfectly possible to have loads of fun and take part in bigger shows along the way even on a very average horse getting average scores.
My welsh is *so* not bred for the job, she is 14.2 and stumpy, not a flashy mover. She has been a mid-60s% horse at every level from Prelim to Inter 1. Talk about consistent. No, we aren't going to set the world on fire, but those scores have taken us to regionals and area festivals at every level, team competition, associated champs, RC champs, you name it. Everything I have wanted to aim for, we've done.

Yeah it would be nice to be on the top WB getting the 75% scores but in a way this has been a blessing because having not had stellar success at championships means I'm still eligible for lower levels on a new horse

 

[palo1]

yup. I think the personal journey thing is what can help keep the average competitor sane! every time I have a big show or go up a level, my trainer and I decide what would be a good result for *us* as a combination. If we get a rosette as well then that's great, but it gives me a fairly objective way to judge our performance in a realistic way, rather than comparing against whoever might have turned up at the show. It's still aspirational but also achievable, I love being able to report back that we hit or exceeded our target (or would have done if I hadn't fluffed a change or something, lol!)

And this approach is what will tell you if you have the right trainer and mindset! This is such productive, positive and helpful way of approaching competition and progression.

 

[ycbm]

On the marking side of things a 7 is fairly good. You do not need a flashy horse to achieve a 7, irrespective of the level - you need to show a basically correct way of going and execute the movement accurately. So a mistake free test on a well trained bog pony will get you 70% under the majority of judges. With the odd blip you are still talking mid-high 60’s. This is a competitive score at all bar the upper levels of competition (national champs etc).

Mid-high sixties isn't a competitive score at the BD venues I go to. The winners are always in the seventies unless the entries are very few.

.

 

[milliepops]

Depends on the level round here I think, it would be pretty common to see a 70 in the prelim/novice but less as you go up the levels, I just looked at a well attended show at my local regionals location earlier this year which had a good dose of pros in attendance and there were very few, Charlotte, obv and Sonnar on the horse she's riding for him ATM... (mix of judges acrosss the day Prelim to GP) Do we have meany judges down here in Gloucestershire

 

[ihatework]

Mid-high sixties isn't a competitive score at the BD venues I go to. The winners are always in the seventies unless the entries are very few.

.

Interesting. What level BD are you regularly competing at these days?

Down my way (berks/oxon/wilts/Gloucester) the prelims/novices are generally win on 70%+ but a 67/68/69 would usually give you a reasonable placing and sufficient points towards regionals - I’d consider that competitive, it doesn’t have to mean wiping the floor. As you go up the levels, particularly in bronze, those sorts of scores are competitive for an amateur. Ive qualified Ele & Med petplans and been to regionals on a horse that rarely broke 70%, usually we sat around 66-68, and that was not in bronze either.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I agree with the other's high 60's is generally competitive where I was competing (North West, moved to Wales now), to win regionals/ national titles, then yes into the 70's definitely, but I tend to come home with rosettes with my mid 60's horse all the way up to advanced, heck we even managed this on 64%*:

*this is not the norm! It was the result of BD's quite frankly bizarre changes to the competition structure, we ended up being the only people in the class lol.

 

[ihatework]

Ha ha! Take the results when you can!

I was 2nd in the medium petplans at Wellington in a 20+ strong class on a score of 67% ish and it was won on 68 ish

 

[Laafet]

Interesting. What level BD are you regularly competing at these days?

Down my way (berks/oxon/wilts/Gloucester) the prelims/novices are generally win on 70%+ but a 67/68/69 would usually give you a reasonable placing and sufficient points towards regionals - I’d consider that competitive, it doesn’t have to mean wiping the floor. As you go up the levels, particularly in bronze, those sorts of scores are competitive for an amateur. Ive qualified Ele & Med petplans and been to regionals on a horse that rarely broke 70%, usually we sat around 66-68, and that was not in bronze either.

In the East, you can win on sub 60 sometimes and at Elementary, I rarely have any competition! Its not good though as you end up propping up the end of the table at Areas if you get lulled into the false sense of security that you are doing well!

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Ha ha! Take the results when you can!

I was 2nd in the medium petplans at Wellington in a 20+ strong class on a score of 67% ish and it was won on 68 ish

Yeah I celebrated anyway, as the saying goes "you have to be in it, to win it" .

We've been to the Petplan finals a couple of times at elementary and medium with scores around 66%, not enough to win the area festival but enough to get to the final, Topaz is a spooky whatsit so very noncompetitive at the final anyway lol.

Only time we placed at regionals was again an odd twist in the competition structure where we ended up Elementary gold and there were less than ten in the class, I seem to be able to find the small classes to make myself look good lol.

 

[ycbm]

I don't compete these days ihatework, and the last time I was regularly winning dressage competitions was twenty five years ago, and the whole game has changed beyond recognition, which is why I'm not offering the OP any advice. The tests I won regulatly with unaffiliated back then would be anywhere near a place now. The high level competition in Tiddlypom's photos hasn't run for over twenty five years because no-one will compete on grass any more. Times are so different.

MP is a shining example of how to do it on a non standard horse and a low budget. And Nikkimariet on how to do it with an ex racer. We have some great riders on the forum.

PS I'm obviously wrong about the scoring, apologies everyone.

 

[ycbm]

In the East, you can win on sub 60 sometimes and at Elementary, I rarely have any competition! Its not good though as you end up propping up the end of the table at Areas if you get lulled into the false sense of security that you are doing well!

I must move 😂

 

[Cortez]

You will win if you have the highest score - what the actual score is is largely irrelevant, surely? When I was competing baby horses I was generally happy if we got over 65%, which meant that it was more than half OK (or not half bad....). With the proper competition horses it was more important to actually win.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The first thing that jumps out from your post is that you haven't pinpointed what the training issues are that are holding you back.
You need to put aside the excuses about facilities, vehicles etc - there are plenty of people in battered jeeps on unconventional horses doing well, and there are plenty of people who do 80% of their dressage schooling on hacks with no arenas.

Sit down and really analyse the areas you are weakest in, and then work out what the best use of your resources is.

Very much this. Why have you not been doing well lately? Are the basics not in place, so that now you have gone up a level or two you are struggling? Do you need a complete sabbatical from comps so that you can work on the training? You need to be very honest with yourself about this.

 

[ihatework]

You will win if you have the highest score - what the actual score is is largely irrelevant, surely?

Not for me, can’t speak for others mind.

I have won a lot of affiliated dressage on scores sub-65%, even as low as 59/60. The vast majority of the time the scores were a fair reflection of the test I presented and I’m afraid, my opinion is those high 50/low60 scores reflect a fundamental way of going that needs improving. I might have won because there were few in the class and everyone went worse than me, but I took no pleasure from winning with a test that I did not feel reflected what we could do.

But then I’m a perfectionist and happy to beat myself up about stuff 😁

 

[Tiddlypom]

The % score seems to matter much more now. Back in my days of competing, points were only awarded if you won or were placed, the % score was irrelevant. 7 points for a win, down to 1 point for 7th. You stayed in Novice up to 50 points, and Elementary up to 100 points. No gold, silver, bronze or other restricted categories, either, though the top level riders couldn't compete below Elementary.

There were known tough judges where anyone did well to scrape 60%, and also more generous ones who awarded much higher marks. The overall placings for the strict and the lenient judges might well be the same, though.

I imagine that now there is much more pressure for judges to mark more evenly, seeing as %'s seem to matter so much.

 

[milliepops]

if you're aiming at regionals, a 65% score doesn't give you any qualifying points at lower levels.

 

[ycbm]

You will win if you have the highest score - what the actual score is is largely irrelevant, surely? When I was competing baby horses I was generally happy if we got over 65%, which meant that it was more than half OK (or not half bad....). With the proper competition horses it was more important to actually win.

Depends on what you're there for Cortez, doesn't it? People's attitudes vary and not everyone is there to win. I wouldn't celebrate winning with a 65, unless I felt the judge was a very low marker and/or I knew I'd beaten better horses and riders than me. Mostly these days I go for the cafe and the day out. With two green horses to start this year, if I can raise the energy, I will be celebrating staying on and staying in the ring, hopefully 😂