CDJ withdrawn from paris

eahotson said:
So children learn that they can abuse their teachers with no come back? One of my neighbours was a teacher.She really struggled with one child and frankly neglected some of the others sometimes because of it.Finally he left faeces in one of her desk drawers.He was suspended for a week.His father then came to the school and beat up a 50 plus year old woman.She was off sick and her arthritis started then.She returned to work and the father tried again.They had emergency buttons in the class room by then and she said the staff were marvellous at responding. It finished her though.This was in a primary school.
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OMG poor poor woman. When I was at school (a long time ago) the boys got the cane if they were really bad.
 
Just read the comments on the post again just to make sure I'm not going mad 🤦‍♀️

I don't understand how people can just accept this and move on. What exactly are we all doing this for? It certainly can absolutely not be entirely about the horse / horse centred for some people. People clearly use horses for what they so generously give us - they make us feel amazing when we ride them, give us wings, lend us their bravery, their power, make us feel talented and clever. And yet somehow we still feel they owe us something or that people are owed forgiveness even if they take complete advantage of these AMAZING animals.

I can't even write coherently. Just so furious with it all.
 
Exasperated said:
You may be right, but you don’t know, and if CDJ crowed from the roof about a fresh approach, are you sure you wouldn’t just retort that should always have been the case, no credit for finally doing the right thing; or maybe you would just continue in disbelief?
Makes complete sense to keep her head down, mouth shut, whatever she is doing - which won’t help to change perception and culture, and that’s a big problem.
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I might not know, but on the balance of probabilities, nothing has changed. She has said nothing to indicate she thinks what she did was wrong and that the training system she uses is abusive.

And, nope, Id be bloody delighted and hoping it signified a cultural shift. The same way her better way of keeping horses did filter down somewhat. What is happening now is condoning the abuse because the punishment is insignificant and has absolutely zero long term affects. Its just shown people that they need to be smarter about allowing cameras/phones, but not to worry if they get caught as its just a short ban and business as usual.

She had an opportunity to lead change from within. To show what she did was wrong, that that way of training is cruel and needless. She chose not to do this because she clearly doesnt have to. People are just accepting its ok to beat the hell out of a horse so long as you win.
 
What happened will change forever the respect for that elite, mysterious, superior veneer that fooled so many. The castle has fallen, and been seen to fall by many including those who even did not begin to understand what its all about really and possibly thought it was all above their heads, this posh dressage thing top hats and all

But now many see it was an illusion, like so many things

And people who have never owned a horse but love horses were horrified, shocked, so many people who will never even ride know more, that is that horses are worshipped from afar, they are just that creature with universal appeal, beauty gentleness and the fei has brought it all down on their own heads

I really think they should be ashamed
 
ester said:
But there’s the whole rest of the horse…not sure many people aim for the canon bones?
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I thought we were discussing the DuJardin film? She is repeatedly flicking round the horse’s lower legs, and was very sensible not to start the same higher up on such an anxious, ridden animal - it would likely explode and ditch her pupil then and there.
What CDJ did was absolutely considered and intentional, one of the reasons it’s difficult to accept from a rider of her reputation.
 
ester said:
I thought we were discussing that film too and while it's hard to see where the lash lands all the time but plenty isn't on the lower legs, most of them are arse/above hock aimed as she is using it at elbow height.
I wouldn't call it flicking either!
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Doesn't she have two hands on the whip at one point?
 
ester said:
I thought we were discussing that film too and while it's hard to see where the lash lands all the time but plenty isn't on the lower legs, most of them are arse/above hock aimed as she is using it at elbow height.
I wouldn't call it flicking either!
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Well, I have no intention of watching it again, or discussing further.
No one I have ever met uses a lunge whip on the upper body; usually lash it along just above the ground, just behind the horse; precisely because catching them higher would be counter productive, very probably explosive. And unbelievably reckless, with a rider on board.
However, there may be other contributors who regularly hit their horses’s bodies with lunge whips, without dramatic consequences, and are in a position to disagree?
If this one was being vigorously lashed all over his body, yet merely fly bucked, perhaps he’s into S&M - elite dressage being the perverse and twisted sport it has become.
 
Burnttoast said:
She still has a lot of support from equestrians (the ones who have normalised this kind of behaviour, which is a lot of them apparently) and that's who sponsors are interested in.
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I remember her comments on her ban being more about her betrayal and wanting to know who reported the behavior. But, that doesn't mean she's not modified her behavior. Case in point, I made a snarky post about the training director at my obedience club who couldn't answer define "traditional training. Someone shared a screenshot with a board member, blah, blah, I had my wrist slapped and was threatened with charges if I mentioned the club, members, or students again.
I've mentioned a member who took some really nice pictures of my puppy. I'm snarky enough to send screen shots of the positivity to certain BOD members.
I modified my behavior but it hasn't stopped me from wondering who started this mess instead of coming to me.

I hope that sheds some light on my hesitation to condemn CDJ when it is possible she has has modified her behavior.

Nancykitt said:
Like many here I was a huge fan of CDJ and admired her greatly. I desperately want to be confident that she would never do anything like this ever again - but of course none of us can ever have that reassurance.
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I'm hoping that her horses will be performing without horrible signs of stress. Many of us get stressed competing. Our animals pick up on that stress.

onemoretime said:
OMG poor poor woman. When I was at school (a long time ago) the boys got the cane if they were really bad.
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I went to a few Catholic schools and those nuns didn't tolerate bad behavior. One of my older sisters had a first grade teacher that would use a ruler to give one whack
and that took care of most of the children testing the limits. Those poor children.


I'm Dun said:
And, nope, Id be bloody delighted and hoping it signified a cultural shift. The same way her better way of keeping horses did filter down somewhat. What is happening now is condoning the abuse because the punishment is insignificant and has absolutely zero long term affects. It's just shown people that they need to be smarter about allowing cameras/phones, but not to worry if they get caught as it's just a short ban and business as usual.

She had an opportunity to lead change from within. To show what she did was wrong, that that way of training is cruel and needless. She chose not to do this because she clearly doesnt have to. People are just accepting its ok to beat the hell out of a horse so long as you win.
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There has been a lot of this thread, so I apologize if this has been discussed. Has there been proof that she hasn't changed her way of training?
 
Exasperated said:
Well, I have no intention of watching it again, or discussing further.
No one I have ever met uses a lunge whip on the upper body; usually lash it along just above the ground, just behind the horse; precisely because catching them higher would be counter productive, very probably explosive. And unbelievably reckless, with a rider on board.
However, there may be other contributors who regularly hit their horses’s bodies with lunge whips, without dramatic consequences, and are in a position to disagree?
If this one was being vigorously lashed all over his body, yet merely fly bucked, perhaps he’s into S&M - elite dressage being the perverse and twisted sport it has become.
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Ahh it’s a shame you won’t go back and check like I did.
 
Going off at a tangent... despite looking up on line with no results, did CDJ ever have the second child that was due I think (?) in February this year?
 
GSD Woman said:
Has there been proof that she hasn't changed her way of training?
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Well, no, but what would that take? Equally there's no proof she has. And, given that changing her way of training so that chasing a horse with a whip is a strategy she never feels the need to resort to again ultimately means relearning most of what she knows, which seems most likely?

I think this blog post explains well why she did what she did, but it also explains why, without burning down her training system and building a better one, she is liable to slip into abusive behaviours again when her toolkit is inadequate to the task (not to mention that her toolkit even for talented horses employs a high degree of pressure) or she wants more from a horse than the horse wants to or can give.

https://www.facebook.com/emotional.horsemanship/posts/pfbid0AFPfT3MqnQ2uSWL6oMNELACgYjrrKwnD8kWBnzavGZDefoTBA3i8ZhexWucGJ9nPl
 
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I'm sure we all know that the whistleblower was AD & she's no angel. Quoting Dave's Mam

That was so disturbing. I feel sorry for the horse and his humans. I had a hard time hearing, but did the owner tell AD to stop it and get off of her horse?

Also, did AD get sanctioned?
 
These dressage riders are the worst riders I have ever seen

Why are they not prosecuted by the rspca or whatever

They consistantly show total lack of training knowledge, total lack of empathy, humanity intelligence of if it ain't working don't keep thrashing the bloody horse. Look at yourself

Yet another horse in total distress. Terrorising horses on the name of sport should be stopped now
 
tristars said:
These dressage riders are the worst riders I have ever seen

Why are they not prosecuted by the rspca or whatever

They consistantly show total lack of training knowledge, total lack of empathy, humanity intelligence of if it ain't working don't keep thrashing the bloody horse. Look at yourself

Yet another horse in total distress. Terrorising horses on the name of sport should be stopped now
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The RSPCA struggle to get prosecutions on horses that are starved to death. A well kept horse having its basic needs met are not what the charities are there for, it should be up to the governing body of the sport IMO
 
T
TheMule said:
The RSPCA struggle to get prosecutions on horses that are starved to death. A well kept horse having its basic needs met are not what the charities are there for, it should be up to the governing body of the sport IMO
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I know, you are right

It's just so desperate seeing these videos that heavy breathing does it for me, animals in distress spark compulsion to to do something, anything

But fei do next to nothing, and it is serious abuse I am sure it could have some action taken, rsp cruelty a

That school teacher had action taken for abusing the hunting pony when loading but not sure if that was rspca or the employers

And where is the bhs in all this, what have they said
 
Whatever governing bodies do (usually only when they must) is too limited to have any overall effect and anyone not affliated with one is going to fall through the cracks. If welfare bodies are ineffective (and the lack of support the rspca frequently receives on here, e.g., is not going to make it more effective) then lobbying legislators to simply bring an end to the exploitation of animals in sport would be the obvious next step.

What I'm finding particularly unsettling is the welfare-washing going on atm. Bodies promoting good practices are being drawn into the debate almost entirely on the FEI's terms. WHW are mealy-mouthed and I think we can predict how the ISES now 'helping' the FEI with their welfare standards will go.
 
Recent CSI5* 1.60m warmup. I see swales pelham, flash, draw reins through the martingale neckstrap, running martingale. Have I missed anything?!

528040632_1173222594571032_2901263676326819945_n.jpg
 
Burnttoast said:
Recent CSI5* 1.60m warmup. I see swales pelham, flash, draw reins through the martingale neckstrap, running martingale. Have I missed anything?!
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Oh no, that's just awful.
Personally I hate those spurs too.

Poor horse. It makes me so sad to see people doing this - and then they'll want to take credit for being wonderful riders.
 
Burnttoast said:
Recent CSI5* 1.60m warmup. I see swales pelham, flash, draw reins through the martingale neckstrap, running martingale. Have I missed anything?!

528040632_1173222594571032_2901263676326819945_n.jpg
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Dulling the hearing with the ugly ear cover

Spurs even though it has all that gumf on its head

Those draw reins look mega tight as well, also does the Pelham have 2 reins? I can only see 2 reins in their hand, one of which will presumably be the draw reins, and I cant see roundings so do we just have a single rein on the bottom of the Pelham? Although zooming in maybe i can see a rounding
 
horse-hound.visitlink.me

New rules proposed around blood, eliminations and whips in showjumping

Blood eliminations in international showjumping continue to be a major focus – and padded batons are proposed as a replacement for traditional whips. The FEI jumping rules are undergoing a full revision, and the first draft of proposed changes has been published by the FEI. The International...
horse-hound.visitlink.me horse-hound.visitlink.me

Does this read as them trying to reduce the blood rules??
 
Crazy_cat_lady said:
Dulling the hearing with the ugly ear cover

Spurs even though it has all that gumf on its head

Those draw reins look mega tight as well, also does the Pelham have 2 reins? I can only see 2 reins in their hand, one of which will presumably be the draw reins, and I cant see roundings so do we just have a single rein on the bottom of the Pelham? Although zooming in maybe i can see a rounding
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Looks like a fixed rein on the curb and the draw rein through the snaffle ring. I assume they put a fixed rein on the snaffle for the class? Who knows?!

They want reactions that they can't be bothered to train (if they even knew how to train that degree of reactivity ethically, if it's even possible)
 
Crazy_cat_lady said:
horse-hound.visitlink.me

New rules proposed around blood, eliminations and whips in showjumping

Blood eliminations in international showjumping continue to be a major focus – and padded batons are proposed as a replacement for traditional whips. The FEI jumping rules are undergoing a full revision, and the first draft of proposed changes has been published by the FEI. The International...
horse-hound.visitlink.me horse-hound.visitlink.me

Does this read as them trying to reduce the blood rules??
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Looks like it doesn't it? I can agree that a small nick caused by knocking itself or an insect bite don't necessarily reflect poor welfare standards (although in dressage particularly you might question why a well-prepared balanced horse would be striking itself) but in my view any blood caused by tack, equipment or adjacent to the use of should be come down on with the full ton of bricks. I've never seen blood in a horse's mouth without a bit also being present. How many horses are prone to biting oral tissues in the normal course of their lives?
 
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