CDJ withdrawn from paris

[cauda equina]

As far as cruelty goes (as in the level of pain or distress inflicted on the horse) I am sure we have all seen worse, out in the open, on xc courses as the rider goes wapwapwap with the whip after a refusal or an untidy or lacklustre jump
Racing has been mentioned too
Either hitting horses is ok, or it isn't

 

[Upthecreek]

Oh wow, the video is properly bad .

CDJ is repeatedly whipping the horse on the bum with the lunge whip, you can hear the loud crack of the whip as it makes contact with the horse with force. The horse is kicking out.

Utterly reprehensible.

It’s actually worse than I was expecting.

 

[Jenko109]

I of course do not condone the actions in the video, however I do not think this should define her as an equestrian and ruin her entire career.

There must be hours and hours of footage of CDJ teaching students. After all, if you were having a lesson with her, wouldn't you video it? In all of those hours and over all of those years, this short video is all that is available of her falling short.

 

[NinjaPony]

I just feel so sickened by this. That wasn’t a heat of the moment video, that was deliberate and practiced. It makes me feel like we’ve been sold a lie tbh, and that I need to fundamentally rethink how I see top level dressage. I think we need to see some transparency and accountability rather than excuses and whataboutery

 

[southerncomfort]

One of the saddest thing about this thread is the comments 'not the worst I've seen' or 'I was expecting worse'.

Have we become so inured to videos of horse abuse that we aren't shocked by a video of someone cracking a whip against the legs of a horse as hard as she can over and over again??

It's a hideous abuse of the trust of both horse and rider.

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Is it just me that couldn't care less about the timing of the video being released? I could understand it being part of the subject if it was 20 years old, (hopefully) so much has changed in that time but it's 2 years old!

I sort of feel similarly actually but been struggling to put words to it. Much like Alice Plunkett talking about this being a one-off, having some horse-folk getting more wound up about the timing of the video than the content of it, is really not helpful. Also interesting that there's a narrative about CDJ's mental health/welfare but not that of the person making the report. Sure they are anonymous but they will surely be aware of what is being said about them online.

In some ways the timing makes a lot of sense. If you were a) young and b) worried about speaking up against one of the absolute top people in the sport, that would make sense of why you wouldn't speak up straight away. And then if you did get to a point you felt able to speak up, perhaps you would pick the moment you would most likely be heard/that it would have the most impact. Rather than becoming just another story in an increasing list of examples where there's some kind of investigation but no systemic change in the sport.

 

[Sandstone1]

I of course do not condone the actions in the video, however I do not think this should define her as an equestrian and ruin her entire career.

There must be hours and hours of footage of CDJ teaching students. After all, if you were having a lesson with her, wouldn't you video it? In all of those hours and over all of those years, this short video is all that is available of her falling short.

I would hold on to that thought because I would not be at all surprised to see more come out of the woodwork. Hope Im wrong but the way she used that whip looked very like she knew exactly what she was doing.

 

[bubsqueaks]

As far as cruelty goes (as in the level of pain or distress inflicted on the horse) I am sure we have all seen worse, out in the open, on xc courses as the rider goes wapwapwap with the whip after a refusal or an untidy or lacklustre jump
Racing has been mentioned too
Either hitting horses is ok, or it isn't

But Charlotte is/was a highly credited highly paid professional & rider was a 15 year old child .........

 

[webble]

Looks like Equisafety are defending her, according to their Facebook.

@Bruce17 all I can see if they shared the this morning clip and said warning this is distressing?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I just feel so sickened by this. That wasn’t a heat of the moment video, that was deliberate and practiced. It makes me feel like we’ve been sold a lie tbh, and that I need to fundamentally rethink how I see top level dressage. I think we need to see some transparency and accountability rather than excuses and whataboutery

I'm also sure that people will see the video and wonder 'where did she learn that approach?'. Which may be very unfair to CH.

 

[Orangehorse]

2 years, it took place in 2022

Well, why not report 2 years ago then.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Looks like Equisafety are defending her, according to their Facebook.

Yet OT (who I'm not a fan of) lost sponsors for what could potentially be more classed as a heat of the moment act. Likewise the German Pentathlete as AE said, was also heat of the moment- going for a gold medal and the horse was napping, you understand the frustration for her as it was all down to draw order and if she'd got one of the other horses may well have been fine, I'm not surprised she was in tears

Yet here there's no pressure it's just a coaching session

You don't want to but it does also raise the "by association" question as don't they share a yard. Has there been a blind eye turned?

You then start to question all her achievements with Blueberry. You don't want to, but you have to as this looked practiced

Edit - Equisafety have now uploaded the video, noting that it's distressing to watch.

 

[cauda equina]

But Charlotte is/was a highly credited highly paid professional & rider was a 15 year old child .........

I'm not disputing that
My point was why are we so outraged at this, but other instances of using whips on horses are deemed to be acceptable?

 

[Ifmpw]

I sort of feel similarly actually but been struggling to put words to it. Much like Alice Plunkett talking about this being a one-off, having some horse-folk getting more wound up about the timing of the video than the content of it, is really not helpful. Also interesting that there's a narrative about CDJ's mental health/welfare but not that of the person making the report. Sure they are anonymous but they will surely be aware of what is being said about them online.

In some ways the timing makes a lot of sense. If you were a) young and b) worried about speaking up against one of the absolute top people in the sport, that would make sense of why you wouldn't speak up straight away. And then if you did get to a point you felt able to speak up, perhaps you would pick the moment you would most likely be heard/that it would have the most impact. Rather than becoming just another story in an increasing list of examples where there's some kind of investigation but no systemic change in the sport.

I have the ultimate respect for the person whom has reported this, she was but a child when it happened, it has probably haunted her for a long time, and I admire her and her families courage.
Well done them

 

[Sandstone1]

Well, why not report 2 years ago then.

Why does CD say 4 years ago?

 

[eahotson]

I think, by association, this puts CH in a very difficult position. I wouldn’t like to be him

Just seen the interview with Alice Plunkett on tv. She says this is definitely not how dressage horses are trained and this is a one off. Apparently horse welfare in the UK is at the forefront....I don't think so!! I really wish it was.

The words "Would say that" spring to mind.I bet there are a few people worrying about what might resurface about them .

 

[Ifmpw]

Why does CD say 4 years ago?

Sounds better ?

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Well, why not report 2 years ago then.

Well if CDJ thinks the video is 4 yrs old, it does make one wonder if a 4 yr old video will also emerge. Has she been using that particular training method for 4 yrs, rather than the 2 evidenced by this particular video?

 

[Sandstone1]

Sounds better ?

Maybe, or maybe there are more videos she could be thinking of.

 

[Abacus]

@Bruce17 all I can see if they shared the this morning clip and said warning this is distressing?

Lower down, they make a statement saying this:

"The FEI has announced a provisional suspension for Charlotte Dujardin after a lawyer submitted a video depicting the rider "engaging in conduct contrary to the principles of horse welfare"
If the person who took the video was so worried about Welfare, why didn’t they report it immediately?"

It's not directly supporting her, but is deflecting attention to whoever made the report. Ill-judged, I think.

 

[Equi]

It’s not pleasant watching and I am deeply disappointed she thought it would be okay to use these methods. No it’s not the worst we’ve seen, I wish Harry Evan’s had this type of prime time news slot, but it’s utterly reprehensible. She is right not to compete at the Olympics and I’m not sure she ever will again.

However I don’t think this means she should be hounded into oblivion. Some of the messages online are truly horrible and it paints all of us in a bad light. Still, I hope she is being taken care of, as is the rider/whistleblower.

Thankfully the horse will be completely unaware of all this.

 

[Shoei]

I just feel so sickened by this. That wasn’t a heat of the moment video, that was deliberate and practiced. It makes me feel like we’ve been sold a lie tbh, and that I need to fundamentally rethink how I see top level dressage. I think we need to see some transparency and accountability rather than excuses and whataboutery

I am lucky enough to have watched many coaches and riders from the top and what CDJ is doing is not the norm, thank goodness. I think we need rider, trainers, coaches to come out and say that so the sport is not tarred with this brush.

 

[Bruce17]

@Bruce17 all I can see if they shared the this morning clip and said warning this is distressing?

Scroll down a bit. They posted re her withdrawal prior to the video coming out, but have then questioned the timing of the allegations:
The FEI has announced a provisional suspension for Charlotte Dujardin after a lawyer submitted a video depicting the rider "engaging in conduct contrary to the principles of horse welfare"
If the person who took the video was so worried about Welfare, why didn’t they report it immediately?

Looks like defending to me at least. As a sponsor, the other option would have been to drop her as they don't want to be associated, or even to say nothing at all as yet.

 

[webble]

Lower down, they make a statement saying this:

"The FEI has announced a provisional suspension for Charlotte Dujardin after a lawyer submitted a video depicting the rider "engaging in conduct contrary to the principles of horse welfare"
If the person who took the video was so worried about Welfare, why didn’t they report it immediately?"

It's not directly supporting her, but is deflecting attention to whoever made the report. Ill-judged, I think.

@Abacus @Bruce17 I hadnt seen that thank you, I wonder if they posted that post before the vid came out and then back tracked a bit

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Lots of victim blaming in the Equisafety comments...

As said she was a 15 year old having a lesson with an Olympian who's put on a pedestal of course you'd be scared to speak out. You could even use the term grooming- has she been taught that this is normal, this is how you can get to the Olympics, trust me I know this works etc.

 

[Janique]

Yes, the video is bad, i finally saw it.....

I must say that i have seen much worst in the past, especially in racing....

A long time ago, around 1980, Paul Schokoemele with his great horse Deister was caught for abuse, he used to put a liquid under the boots and
make the horse hit the fence ( rapping), the horse got burned and jumped higher..

Sadly, people forgot and a few years later, he was back on business....

At least now, riders are more aware and the general public is less ignorant.

I am afraid that her career is over....

 

[equinerebel]

Well, why not report 2 years ago then.

Bc the rider was allegedly 15 when the incident took place and there is a clear power dynamic in play.

Counter argument, why hit a horse repeatedly as part of "training"? Surely that is the bigger problem?

 

[Abacus]

@Abacus @Bruce17 I hadnt seen that thank you, I wonder if they posted that post before the vid came out and then back tracked a bit

Whoever is responsible for their social media is making a mess of it. They should either stay quiet, or make a considered statement saying that they will await the FEI findings, or they could take a moral higher ground and drop her.

 

[Overstone stud]

Gamesmanshipe by the Dutch. may not comply with the Social Contract but no real harm was done to the horse.

 

[Burnerbee]

Seen the clip - gloves are off.

A)How could anyone do that to a horse?

B) That’s no ‘one off’ - what, she had a bad day and decided whipping a horse was okay but then immediately woke up and saw the error of her ways? Do me a favour

C) if she, of all people, can’t get horses to do this prancey stuff without violence, no one can. Which should tell us something.