CDJ withdrawn from paris

[maya2008]

Video is now on Facebook too.

Perhaps, as has often been said, the mark system should change so horses who show extravagant movement but with signs of stress are marked down below those who are doing a good job happily and willingly.

My brief experiences of trying dressage/jumping trainers who were themselves competing at a high level successfully, was lots of force and not a lot of understanding of the individual horse.

 

[adamntitch]

Now av seen the video she's teaching but whipping the horse with a lunge whip

 

[Slightlyconfused]

It will be interesting to see how this plays out compared to helgstrand. In some ways I think the timing is good and maybe significant enough that dressage does get hauled over the coals as a thing due to wider public attention rather than abuses coming up year after year but only really being known about if you’re horsey and on a forum.

And hopefully it will make some of the other sectors of the Horse sport world in the UK take note I.E OT in eventing and BM in show jumping to name a few

Dressage needs a complete redesign, and blooming take out the requirement for the double etc....

 

[Burnerbee]

I’m not sure if this has been mentioned already, but timing wise, the release of the video does coincide with the current ‘’Strictly’ revelations of ‘human abuse’.

I think it’s pure coincidence except both reflect that society won’t tolerate this anymore - though we like and reward the outcome, but are shocked and upset when we see with our own eyes what it takes to get them.

You can’t push push push forever - will they be happy when these horses are pogoing round the arena like demented toys? No, probably not - then they’ll need to learn to do it backwards - because all the money is in backwards pogoing horses. I sound demented. But you hopefully get my point.

 

[bubsqueaks]

Ive just watched the lawyer speaking to GMB & he states that this wasnt an isolated incident but his client states it occurred other times when she was taught by Charlotte, however, she doesnt have further videos!

 

[silu]

Non-horsey partner said the same having seen the video - she could have quite easily made the rider fall off, let alone the abuse to the horse itself.

Sadly this does not surprise me. Totally agree with the above. I as a parent was put in a very similar situation years ago when a very well known eventer who went on to design many x country courses rapped my daughter’s horse during a lesson. It was dangerous to both the horse and my daughter. I was not pleased with what happened but told in no uncertain terms to keep my mouth shut about what happened. I did not have video evidence so who was going to believe me against a world renowned eventer?

 

[hock]

just watched the video. Very disappointed. Anyone thinking this method of training is acceptable or works is ignorant at the very best. The worst thing for me about this is she was never going to achieve any kind of result with her actions.

 

[CarlungM]

It's hard to stand up when your coach is someone of note. I can remember being trained by a List 1 Judge and she insisted I kept going and going on that particular exercise even though I said my horse was struggling. I should have jumped off. My horse was lame the following day and needed 8 weeks of vet treatment. It was the last dressage lesson I had.

But in respect of CDJ, someone I know trains at that level and has witnessed her being "hard" and they are no softy themselves.

It is disgusting and I hope we start to see an end to cruelty in top sport.

 

[adamntitch]

As I posted the videos out there she's repeatly whipping the horse with a whip while teaching it's on equisafty page Facebook she needs banned

 

[Burnerbee]

Sadly this does not surprise me. Totally agree with the above. I as a parent was put in a very similar situation years ago when a very well known eventer who went on to design many x country courses rapped my daughter’s horse during a lesson. It was dangerous to both the horse and my daughter. I was not pleased with what happened but told in no uncertain terms to keep my mouth shut about what happened. I did not have video evidence so who was going to believe me against a world renowned eventer

Were you threatened? Sounds very much like it. The arrogance and audacity in the horse world is second to none.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Sadly this does not surprise me. Totally agree with the above. I as a parent was put in a very similar situation years ago when a very well known eventer who went on to design many x country courses rapped my daughter’s horse during a lesson. It was dangerous to both the horse and my daughter. I was not pleased with what happened but told in no uncertain terms to keep my mouth shut about what happened. I did not have video evidence so who was going to believe me against a world renowned eventer?

I'm very sorry to hear that you went through that.

Something similar happened to me when I was a child, and I still have the scar to prove it. Instructor told my parents it was an 'accident' (they weren't watching the lesson), no it wasn't, she beat the pony and I was bucked off at canter and landed badly, cut open, lots of blood. I was quite traumatised by the whole ordeal, both my injury and the way the pony was treated, and didn't tell my parents the truth until years later. I think they may have had a hunch, as they moved me to a different riding school quite swiftly.

 

[JFTDWS]

Guys, be careful out there....

I've just got back from taking baby pony out for 30 mins and got screamed at, yes, screamed at!

"You effing horse riders should just stop, it's effing cruel, seen it on the TV this morning and you are all disgusting!"

Many more expletives as baby pony carefully plodded on, it was quite sickening

Whilst I know you absolutely don’t deserve that, and there’s no excuse for the language - I can’t say I blame the public for being angry and taking it out on any rider they see.

Look at all the people - even a few on here - still defending her behaviour, or excusing it. How the hell must we look to people right now?

And fwiw- I have photos of dressage trainers doing things to my (sweet, undeserving pony) that aren’t far off this. I eventually walked away from that sort of training, but when it’s normalised, you accept it. And in hindsight, that sickens me.

 

[ester]

As I posted the videos out there she's repeatly whipping the horse with a whip while teaching it's on equisafty page Facebook she needs banned

We’ve all seen it too…..

 

[Supertrooper]

Can anyone work out what Charlotte is saying? She’s saying something about cracking the whip??

 

[ester]

I was trying to hear it properly too

 

[adamntitch]

Can anyone work out what Charlotte is saying? She’s saying something about cracking the whip??

Think she's shouting up

Soz others never seen that people had seen

 

[j1ffy]

I can't find the post now but someone up-thread said that probably all dressage trainers do things like this.

I can only speak from my personal experience, but almost 2 years ago I did a BD camp with Becky Moody. All three lessons with her were fantastic and very horse-friendly, I watched numerous others that were the same (from Novice to Advanced levels). I can't say that it would be the same on a private yard with no observers but I'd hope she is consistent! (She also said that she didn't stand a chance of getting on the team back then - how times change )

 

[Miss_Millie]

Look at all the people - even a few on here - still defending her behaviour, or excusing it. How the hell must we look to people right now?

The number of people saying 'it's not that bad' on the Equisafety video post is disgusting. Tell me you also hit your horse without telling me

 

[Supertrooper]

Think she's shouting up

Soz others never seen that people had seen

Sorry I don’t understand what you mean?

 

[YourValentine]

As guilty as CDJ is in this video so is every single adult present who didn't intervene.

Why is the person filming not shouting at her to stop? Or the child's parent (if they were present).

There is more than 1 person in this video, who should answer to their actions (or lack of). And I don't buy that every adult there was "too awe struck by CDJ to question"

 

[ester]

Yeah she’s saying a lot more than ‘up’ but it’s hard to hear over the whip.

 

[ester]

As guilty as CDJ is in this video so is every single adult present who didn't intervene.

Why is the person filming not shouting at her to stop? Or the child's parent (if they were present).

There is more than 1 person in this video, who should answer to their actions (or lack of). And I don't buy that every adult there was "too awe struck by CDJ to question"

Have you missed all the other incidences where there was a massive power imbalance being reported in the last few years? All the George morris stuff etc?

 

[adamntitch]

Sorry I don’t understand what you mean?

In the video I think she's shouting up and the sorry was cause I never seen the post when others had already seen the video

 

[BBP]

I had an experience some years back when I took my dog to a really well known, highly thought of, competitive on the trialling circuit, sheepdog trainer for help. The trainer proceeded to flood, terrify, traumatise and hurt my dog. It is one of my greatest shames that I didn’t stop him sooner and the result has been hugely detrimental to my dog. But the man was so overpowering as being ‘in charge’ and on his territory that I was made to believe that I was useless and if I didn’t do things his way my dog would wind up dead. At the time I was depressed, anxious and extremely ill which affected my confidence to step up. Afterwards when I said I wouldn’t be going back and explained my thoughts on what had happened, I was met with threats of lawsuits, libel action etc etc etc if I dared mention his name anywhere or tell people. He was vile, and lied about everything. I can empathise with how hard it is to come forward against someone at the top of their game. I now have no faith in allowing any other person to handle my dog or horses without me being there, and have no questions over whether I would advocate for my animals. But I didn’t advocate for him fast enough back then.

 

[teapot]

For all those going ‘it’s not that bad’ on social media, I wonder how much they understand or care about what this means for the sport and social licence.

The entire industry needs a long hard look at itself, whether it’s a RS horse being chased with a whip… to CDJ, none of it is ok.

 

[bubsqueaks]

As guilty as CDJ is in this video so is every single adult present who didn't intervene.

Why is the person filming not shouting at her to stop? Or the child's parent (if they were present).

There is more than 1 person in this video, who should answer to their actions (or lack of). And I don't buy that every adult there was "too awe struck by CDJ to question"

Ive just rewatched the video & in the mirror you can see 2 people standing in the corner - her lawyer stated on national TV this morning this is not an isolated incident but she had several lessons with Charlotte all using same technique but no videos - sadly I assume this 15 year old was at a top level in Dressage & the other witnesses/trainers/parents just wanted results - if they were that outraged they wouldnt have had more coaching!

 

[JFTDWS]

As guilty as CDJ is in this video so is every single adult present who didn't intervene.

Why is the person filming not shouting at her to stop? Or the child's parent (if they were present).

There is more than 1 person in this video, who should answer to their actions (or lack of). And I don't buy that every adult there was "too awe struck by CDJ to question"

Bystanders have a responsibility to challenge things, but they cannot be held accountable for the actions of the person in a position of power who is actually committing the abuse. That guilt is all hers.

Trying to pass the blame off onto bystanders is appalling.

 

[kickonchaps]

Can anyone work out what Charlotte is saying? She’s saying something about cracking the whip??

In the video posted by the Sun I’m pretty certain she says “this is so shit at hitting them hard” in reference to the whip. So very clearly not the first time, or an error of judgement, or any of the other trite nonsense she’s been claiming

 

[YourValentine]

Have you missed all the other incidences where there was a massive power imbalance being reported in the last few years? All the George morris stuff etc?

Not at all, but there is a big difference between jumping in at the moment, to stop the lesson which is what should have happened vs the challange to report it or make public accusations later on. Which I fully appreciate is difficult with out video and the right support.

 

[meleeka]

Ive just rewatched the video & in the mirror you can see 2 people standing in the corner - her lawyer stated on national TV this morning this is not an isolated incident but she had several lessons with Charlotte all using same technique but no videos - sadly I assume this 15 year old was at a top level in Dressage & the other witnesses/trainers/parents just wanted results - if they were that outraged they wouldnt have had more coaching!

It does seem as if the client didn't mind too much at the time, if they had numerous sessions like this. Sadly it does add weight to the thought that this is normal in dressage.