CDJ withdrawn from paris

[Sandstone1]

This will really cast a long shadow over our teams entry. How can they go and put their best foot forward now with this hanging over their heads. Carl has such a close association with Charlotte that I doubt he will now feel motivated and comfortable to step out onto a world stage.

I will not be surprised if they withdraw.

 

[ihatework]

She's obviously on a damage limitation exercise for BD. I'm just wondering what else is going to come out now? The blue tongue thing and tight draw reins probably doesn't mean a lot to non horsey people, but a rider whipping a horse is obvious abuse.

Well of course she is.
But it’s a lie.

 

[Goldie's mum]

This article goes a long way to explaining a lot of the questions people are asking on the thread.

Can't "like" that but thank you for the link.

 

[Miss_Millie]

Wow, that was not what I was expecting. Her calmness as she hit that horse again and again was something else.

I'm not sure how the 'out of character' statement can be justified now that the video is out.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Well IMO Alice Plunkett needs to wind her neck in and stay out of making dumb comments like that. I think this is exactly how ‘some’ dressage horses are trained both in uk and throughout the world.

Yes it's the apologists and excuse makers that are as harmful as everyone else for the longevity and ethics of horse sport. The 'one bad apple' narrative or the 'out of character' line. No. It's clearly endemic. It's systematic abuse of the horse in training and teaching situations in pursuit of what judges appear to be looking for. Not everyone but enough to mean there needs a be a real review of why and how this has arisen. How it has come to this. I don't believe horse lovers start competing intending to beat up their ponies. And yet here we are....

 

[HollyWoozle]

A taste of the comments starting to come out on X (for example).

 

[lynz88]

This was no momentary loss of control, it was a cool calculated attempt by CDJ in a training session to get the horse to get more jump in the canter by repeatedly whipping it hard on the bum.

The poor horse was a saint, and the rider kept their cool and the horse under control at the time.

If this happens in a filmed training session with a client, what on earth goes on behind the scenes when no cameras or members of the public are there.

Thinking the same. As with others, it isn't as bad as what I thought or have seen BUT it is absolutely not an acceptable training practice, I would never condone such a practice, and is inexcusable. I do think the fact that this is getting such widespread coverage will bring about a more widespread awareness that only "horse people" have seen and has been discussed on these forums.

 

[eahotson]

I can believe the German athlete who hit a Saint Boy was behaving out of character. She was in a situation of extreme pressure and frustration (in gold medal position on a horse napping into the ring and refusing to start the SJ round). Who knows how they would react in that unprecedented situation. Many years ago I lost my temper with a horse once. He scared me and it came out as anger. I burst into tears afterwards and that day put him up for sale as I realised I was out of my depth and not coping. That was out of character.

But teaching a kid? While being filmed by parents/sponsor. Low pressure, high visibility. Not the sort of situation where you suddenly lose your mind. So no I don’t believe for a second this was a one off.

I remember loving the Tour de France and was a huge Armstrong fan. It was such a great story of triumph over adversity. And he did so much for charity, always came across so well. When he was done for doping I was so disillusioned that I stopped watching for years.

I’ve disliked and distrusted high level dressage for a couple of years now but I think this will have the same sort of impact as the doping scandal in cycling and countless thousands of fans will turn away.

Dressage needs to have a long hard look at itself re breeding/judging/training. As far as I can tell it’s about as far removed from the principles of relationship and harmony as it gets.

 

[paddy555]

There was a horse drive local to me and a video of someone whipping a horse much more severely than this. It was reported and they apparently visited the owner and gave him a leaflet on how to care for horses . I know they only like to act if there's media involved, but I think this is a little too high profile for them to get involved with.

the RSPCA were quick enough to prosecute the teacher who lost her job when she lost her temper with the kid's pony.

If CJD trains one rider like this then doubtless she has done it before.
The people on the yard where she is based must be aware of her methods. How many riders has she taught this way who have thought it was now OK and gone home to practise this methods.

I think all horse people should be totally furious at the activities of these top riders as they are the ones bringing these methods to the public. Most of the public don't know the difference between CJDs sort of horses and the fat fell pony who occasionally wanders around the block.

 

[lynz88]

A taste of the comments starting to come out on X (for example).

Interesting. Tbh if dressage went back to its roots and wad judged properly, there could be appreciation for it. Unfortunately that doesn't "wow" audiences

 

[scats]

I think, by association, this puts CH in a very difficult position. I wouldn’t like to be him right now, either.

 

[eahotson]

I think horse sport in general needs a long hard look.This is not solely a problem for dressage.I have to say Chatlotte looked pretty practiced.

 

[Sandstone1]

Sadly, I think most of us who have been around horses a long time will have seen things like this. I am not in anyway saying its right or that we all do it but if we are honest we know it goes on at yards and shows a lot of the time. It is very wrong that horses are treated like this and its time it was stopped. What goes on behind closed doors....

 

[Supertrooper]

I will not be surprised if they withdraw.

I was wondering this also

So so disappointed in her

 

[U.N.Owen]

You still only have to go to any top showjumping show to witness a warm up of draw reins and rolkur and all other sorts. There was someone who complained about the actions of a jumping rider at a top show and they got removed from the show! For complaining!

 

[PoppyAnderson]

I will not be surprised if they withdraw.

Agreed. They have very little time to think this all through but I expect there are some very difficult conversations happening right now about the best way forward. Carl is a very smart guy but he must have his head in his hands. Does he say nothing and silently condone it or does he speak against his friend and business partner.

 

[Ceifer]

I find it interesting that when Annabelle Pidgley purchased Gio and struggled with him for a while that people were deriding her as being a ‘rich girl that purchased success’ and then struggled with him that actually maybe the wheels fell off because she wasn’t training him in the same way as Charlotte…. Just a thought

 

[Sandstone1]

I was wondering this also

So so disappointed in her

I am disappointed, sadly not surprised though. If she does that to someones horse she is being paid to "Train" what does she do to her own horses? This is massive for horse sport and for all horse owners and riders really. The general non horse public will tar us all with the same brush sadly.

 

[paddy555]

the video has now made the top headline of the DM. It likens it to whipping elephants in a circus. Are there still elephants in circuses? perhaps horse sport will go the same way.

 

[Bellaboo18]

the video has now made the top headline of the DM. It likens it to whipping elephants in a circus. Are there still elephants in circuses? perhaps horse sport will go the same way.

The elephants quote is from the lawyer that put the video forward.

 

[Supertrooper]

I am disappointed, sadly not surprised though. If she does that to someones horse she is being paid to "Train" what does she do to her own horses? This is massive for horse sport and for all horse owners and riders really. The general non horse public will tar us all with the same brush sadly.

I honestly know how she could, or should be allowed to come back from this

I also feel if she is doing this in public, what goes on behind closed doors

And for someone who expresses frequently how much she loves horses, her horses and is an ambassador for a horse charity to then do something like this, to a horse that is clearly confused & distressed what on earth was she thinking

I will also say that the timing is completely suspect. Why if you filmed it, and found it wrong did you not do all of this sooner!

 

[Cloball]

The mentality of filming is interesting either you believe you have impunity and therefore filming is fine or what you are doing is fine. This wasn't covert filming like helgastrand or the South American one I worry that in some cases we will just push this behaviour underground where as previously people believe this is "fine" you see a lot worse etc. Not that I don't think people should come forwarding suppose I am just being cynical

 

[bubsqueaks]

Utterly outrageous & disgusting - no excuses.

 

[Sandstone1]

I am confused about the timing of this too CD says in her statement the video is 4 years old. Others are saying 2.5 years old. Are there more than one video? I would say the timing of releasing it was timed to cause the most damage. Whatever, its a massive thing for CD herself, the British team, CH, Dressage in general and all horse sports really. Not to mention all horse riders and owners.
Also, the fact that she allowed this to be filmed says a lot. Did she think she was doing nothing wrong?

 

[cauda equina]

Also there were reports that she was doing it to improve the piaffe but this is canter
Could there be more than one video?

 

[ponyparty]

Seems everyone on my yard doesn’t see a problem with it. I’m astonished and a bit sickened, but not entirely surprised, as harsh methods seem to reign in a lot more places than elite sport.

 

[Sandstone1]

Also there were reports that she was doing it to improve the piaffe but this is canter
Could there be more than one video?

Thats what I am thinking.....

 

[webble]

Agreed. They have very little time to think this all through but I expect there are some very difficult conversations happening right now about the best way forward. Carl is a very smart guy but he must have his head in his hands. Does he say nothing and silently condone it or does he speak against his friend and business partner.

Got to wonder how many people that know better have ,at the minimum, been turning a blind eye

 

[Slightlyconfused]

I witnessed a top bhs instructor kick the hell out of a horse when she was meant to be riding it for a client who was on holiday. Sadly no phones in those days.
The horse was the most kindest one you could meet. Told owner who didn't believe me.

The person who taught me to ride about 25 years ago thought kicking the poop out of a pony while a child was still on them and then doing it again when the child fell off was ok.....

its just heart breaking to still see this and who can you actually trust now?

 

[equinerebel]

I hope every Olympic rider is currently deeply considering how they train their horses, and I hope there's a very keen eye on the warm up arenas of Paris. I truly don't think we deserve to ask so much from these incredible, stoic animals.