CDJ withdrawn from paris

[scats]

No I did not say that it was blowing things out of proportion.In fact in the long run it may help horse sport.The warnings have been there long enough and have been ignored or glossed over.Approximately 4 years ago I saw, on a live stream at Bolesworth, a well know showjumper have a stop which I thought was actually rider error.IN THE RING, in full view of the audience and the judges, he upended his whip, lent across and gave the horse a vicious blow.The horse will have been bruised for days afterwards.Nothing was said.I posted on here and so many people said he is such a nice man!!!! I contacted and reported this incident to the BSJA and pointed out that it was on camera so they couldn't say it didn't happen.They said they would look into it but never came back to me.He is still frquently in the Horse and Hound magazine.

But that’s how it comes across. All the ‘I’ve seen worse’ comments come across as ‘it’s not great but it’s not too bad’.
It is bad. It’s horrendously bad.
Horses get nothing out of being ridden. They do things we ask of them that are so far out of what they would ever do naturally. And mostly they do it without any fuss. We get far more from it than they ever will. So to take that trust and abuse it in that way, for the sake of winning a poxy medal… it’s sickening.

I’m fairly sure I witnessed that rider at Bolesworth aswell. It was not pleasant at all.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

No I did not say that it was blowing things out of proportion.In fact in the long run it may help horse sport.The warnings have been there long enough and have been ignored or glossed over.Approximately 4 years ago I saw, on a live stream at Bolesworth, a well know showjumper have a stop which I thought was actually rider error.IN THE RING, in full view of the audience and the judges, he upended his whip, lent across and gave the horse a vicious blow.The horse will have been bruised for days afterwards.Nothing was said.I posted on here and so many people said he is such a nice man!!!! I contacted and reported this incident to the BSJA and pointed out that it was on camera so they couldn't say it didn't happen.They said they would look into it but never came back to me.He is still frquently in the Horse and Hound magazine.

Can you pm who that was? Would be keen to not support them

Someone at a yard I was on used to sj and said things about a well known name, obviously don't know if true or not but it's always made me very meh about their success

 

[Miss_Millie]

No no one is saying that.What they are saying, me included is that sadly they have seen worse than that.Often at shows and in full view of the audience, ring stewards and judges.

 

[Honey08]

The thing that I found most sad, was that the horse, although not a Valegro, was trying. And got punished.
I think some top level riders, who are used to top quality horses, aren’t always nice to a more regular type horse.

 

[Supertrooper]

Can you pm who that was? Would be keen to not support them

Someone at a yard I was on used to sj and said things about a well known name, obviously don't know if true or not but it's always made me very meh about their success

I’d also like to know via PM

 

[Jackster14]

I'm not passing off blame.

But everyone present had a responsibility in the moment to act in the horses best interest, and no one did.

Anyone working with children/ vulnerable people has a duty of care to report suspect abuse, even if they don't directly witness it.

Everyone working with/around horses has a duty of care to stop abuse, where ever possible. It was 100% possible to intervene in that lesson and not go back for more lessons as its seems to be implied by the lawyers comments that they did.

The bystanders laughed !
However intimidation is real in the horse world and could be why bystanders laughed and took no action at the time.
I have been in that position myself and afterwards regretted that I didn’t speak up !

 

[indie1282]

I've always wondered about this and thought there must have been more to it, but nothing seems to have ever come out.
Not only did Freestyle return to MSJ and CD stopped riding their horses, but she also sold all the MSJ horses she actually owned. MSJ Charmer and Finest Hour both sold. And whatever happened to MSJ Smartini, the one named by fans in a FB competition? Never heard from again.

It was all very sudden if I recall - especially considering that Freestyle was touted as the next Valegro..

And to sell all of her MSJ horses…. Something doesn’t add up there at all.

There was also the disqualification in Amsterdam because Freestyle had blood on her sides - that was all played down as well.

I really wouldn’t be surprised if more videos come out of the woodwork

 

[conniegirl]

i found this a very balanced view of whats going on

Emotional Horsemanship by Lockie Phillips

So, when Charlotte (Dujardin) was in London 2012 Olympics with Valegro, she got my attention. Because Valegro was the first competitive dressage horse I personally saw in recent memory, in recent...

www.facebook.com

 

[Tiddlypom]

Going back in time, this is a young CDJ riding the 5yo Valegro at a demo at Your Horse live under the eye of Carl, showing a promising young horse early in his training.

I was in the audience, and was rather miffed at the time that it was a working pupil that no one had heard of riding the horse, who I had also not heard of, rather than Carl.

 

[periwinkle china]

I am trying to work out what they are saying, but I can't really hear it. And the laughing? What are they thinking...

 

[Cinnamontoast]

One of the saddest thing about this thread is the comments 'not the worst I've seen' or 'I was expecting worse'.

Have we become so inured to videos of horse abuse that we aren't shocked by a video of someone cracking a whip against the legs of a horse as hard as she can over and over again??

It's a hideous abuse of the trust of both horse and rider.

I’m not inured to it, but I’ve seen lots worse in eg racing.

 

[Spotherisk]

Apologies if this has been mentioned, I should be working not on HHO.

So if this is a typical training method for CDJ, there has to be at least one other person involved. Either she is riding the horse and when she isn’t feeling the hind legs working as she wants be instructs someone else to crack it with the whip, or someone else is on top and she’s doing the ground work. Of course she is the big name and I have no idea who else is in her team, but surely this will escalate, with more information coming out.

With the confusion of the age of the video, it is possible that the rider has just turned 18 and with reaching adulthood has felt able to come forward.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I used to really enjoy dressage and think that I would like to have a go at the sport as a teenager and thought it would be ‘my thing’.

Now I find my stomach turned even when clips come up of seemingly innocuous training as I am scrolling through social media, I find my go to thought is ‘well what went on behind the scenes to get that movement’ or similar. I find it harder to believe that abuse didn’t happen to get that horse to achieve what the video is showing, rather than disbelieving that it does happen… how depressing is that?! And the people that have changed the way the whole sport is viewed is the people that should be representing it; no protests, campaigners, or fabricating required, the very people that should love and support the sport the most achieved it all on their own.

I will no longer be watching it at elite level or supporting it in any way, shape or form. The biggest irony of all is that this abuse occurs to achieve things the vast majority of spectators didn’t ask for and don’t enjoy watching, the spider legs, the chin to chest, the tension, the extreme and exaggerated movements.. yes it’s rewarded but why is that even the goal?!

 

[piebaldproblems]

Guys, be careful out there....

I've just got back from taking baby pony out for 30 mins and got screamed at, yes, screamed at!

"You effing horse riders should just stop, it's effing cruel, seen it on the TV this morning and you are all disgusting!"

Many more expletives as baby pony carefully plodded on, it was quite sickening

All of us riding in the public eye (like hacking) now have to be on our very best behaviour before we're tarred with the same brush. We have to be extra good at thanking drivers, being friendly with passersby, etc. We have to make it clear to nonhorsey family and colleagues and members of the public we meet out hacking just much we love our horses and how her behaviour is not representative of the average rider before they try to take our horses away from us or treat us like we're complicit. We have to be proactive in improving public relations and social license because every little helps.

 

[silu]

Were you threatened? Sounds very much like it. The arrogance and audacity in the horse world is second to none.

I was told to keep my mouth shut otherwise my child might as well stop eventing as she would be “ black balled”. Delightful!

 

[webble]

Putting my neck on the line a bit here but I was chased by a trainer with a lunge whip. Not that long ago.
My horse was frightened and bogged off with me and it worried me, so I expressed my concern. The trainer made me come back round and did it again. I was very reluctant and said I wasn’t happy about it, but trainer said I’m not actually touching her. Trainer then told me that ‘insert big name’ does the same to her, and laughed. The second time, my horse really freaked out and ran off with me. I said I didn’t like it and I wanted to stop. So we stopped. I drove home feeling sick and conflicted.
I stopped my lessons.

I think the use of lunge whips in training horses is very much the norm at the top level.

@scats thats awful, is that anyone I'm likely to know?

 

[humblepie]

Wasn't going to comment but just seen the video and ouch, using the whip both directions and some power behind it, horrible and that when the horse kicks out someone giggles - seriously.

 

[scats]

@scats is that anyone I'm likely to know?

Quite possibly.

 

[Honey08]

i found this a very balanced view of whats going on

Emotional Horsemanship by Lockie Phillips

So, when Charlotte (Dujardin) was in London 2012 Olympics with Valegro, she got my attention. Because Valegro was the first competitive dressage horse I personally saw in recent memory, in recent...

www.facebook.com

Yes that was.

 

[splashgirl45]

Thanks for that Tiddlepom, really enjoyable

 

[Pearlsasinger]

There are no excuses for this. I find it odd that those within that elite top circle are quiet.... maybe there is more to this?

I would imagine that the 3 organisations involved in investigating have asked/instructed their members to say nothing. It's the easiest way to ensure that nothing is misconstrued.

 

[Upthecreek]

I am truly baffled by the people who think it’s not that bad and saying they’ve seen worse. The woman has won 6 Olympic medals and has portrayed herself as an advocate for horse welfare and setting a good example to young riders. Anyone read The Girl on the Dancing Horse, which she wrote?

I don’t care about the timing of the release of the video or how long ago it was or whether it was an isolated incident (highly unlikely I suspect). A professional at the pinnacle of her sport has chosen to hit a horse 24 times in a training session. That is really all that matters. It was not done in anger in a pressure situation where it could be seen (though not excused) as a momentary loss of judgement.

Actions have consequences and I think this will end her career and ruin life as she knows it, regardless of the outcome of the FEI investigation. She will need a lot of support to get through this.

 

[mini-eventer]

Putting my neck on the line a bit here but I was chased by a trainer with a lunge whip. Not that long ago.
My horse was frightened and bogged off with me and it worried me, so I expressed my concern. The trainer made me come back round and did it again. I was very reluctant and said I wasn’t happy about it, but trainer said I’m not actually touching her. Trainer then told me that ‘insert big name’ does the same to her, and laughed. The second time, my horse really freaked out and ran off with me. I said I didn’t like it and I wanted to stop. So we stopped. I drove home feeling sick and conflicted.
I stopped my lessons.

I think the use of lunge whips in training horses is very much the norm at the top level.

I don't condone what your trainer did, they should have stopped when you expressed your concern. Repeated hitting with a lunge whip is on another level completely unacceptable

I use a lunge whip to train - I have never hit my horse with it, or bullied my horse with it. I have used it to encorage forwardness

 

[Abacus]

Devil's advocate here for a moment, and in no way condoning the behaviour in that video.

This morning I was expecting a 'me-too' effect; more videos and stories specifically about CDJ or others. I haven't seen anything, apart from bits of anecdotal gossip ('I've heard she is hard on them', etc). Such further evidence may come to light over time. But for the moment, perhaps the lack of any other evidence might just mean that this is a one-off or at least has to be treated as such?

I have heard people saying that aspects of the video look like it's not the first time. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with this, just a little surprised not to have seen anything else, and we have to consider this when judging her whole training regime and whether this is, as she said, out of character.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Whilst I know you absolutely don’t deserve that, and there’s no excuse for the language - I can’t say I blame the public for being angry and taking it out on any rider they see.

Look at all the people - even a few on here - still defending her behaviour, or excusing it. How the hell must we look to people right now?

And fwiw- I have photos of dressage trainers doing things to my (sweet, undeserving pony) that aren’t far off this. I eventually walked away from that sort of training, but when it’s normalised, you accept it. And in hindsight, that sickens me.

I completely agree.
Those who know me, will know I don't suffer fools gladly, on this random occasion I was just gawping, I honestly couldn't articulate any response whatsoever. V unlike me, I think I was just stunned at the vitriol.

I think the time has come that at least each and every event, from unaff shows upwards should have an Equine Welfare Officer.
Each PC and RC branch should have one on the committee, they all have a human safeguarding officer, just add an equine one too.
Yes, am fully aware that higher end has vets on site. Yes, I agree it wont stop the vileness at home, but it would be a start.

 

[AmyMay]

Sorry if it’s been mentioned already.

Sky news are showing the video in more detail. Bizarre that (possibly) whoever is videoing is chuckling away.

And is CJD simply cracking the whip?

 

[Apercrumbie]

She has the level of profile where this will never leave her and I imagine her career is over. It hasn't been the same for other riders who have been caught committing abuse, because it's rare for a rider to have a profile beyond the sport.

Why oh why did it have to be a Brit, why did it have to be her? Who can we safely admire in horse sport now? It could be any of them! I'm feeling so disheartened.

But perhaps this could turn out to be a good thing - the governing bodies can't sweep this one under a rug and it may force them to seriously reform welfare requirements, and perhaps the aims of the sport. There are lengthy threads on this forum about the direction modern dressage has taken, could this be what swings it back in a more horse-friendly direction?

 

[Apercrumbie]

Sorry if it’s been mentioned already.

Sky news are showing the video in more detail. Bizarre that (possibly) whoever is videoing is chuckling away.

And is CJD simply cracking the whip?

She clearly makes contact with the horse several times. I found the chuckling to be pretty gross.

 

[JFTDWS]

I completely agree.
Those who know me, will know I don't suffer fools gladly, on this random occasion I was just gawping, I honestly couldn't articulate any response whatsoever. V unlike me, I think I was just stunned at the vitriol.

I think the time has come that at least each and every event, from unaff shows upwards should have an Equine Welfare Officer.
Each PC and RC branch should have one on the committee, they all have a human safeguarding officer, just add an equine one too.
Yes, am fully aware that higher end has vets on site. Yes, I agree it wont stop the vileness at home, but it would be a start.

I was a bit all over the place earlier when I wrote that, and while I agree with the sentiment, I am also really sorry that you got shouted at. And I hope you’re ok (though I know you’re tough and totally will be ).

You’re absolutely right about EWOs too.

 

[paddy555]

The elephants quote is from the lawyer that put the video forward.

the DM reading public won't care where it is from. They won't get past the headline. This reminds me of hunting shortly to be banned. They don't care to distinguish between fox hunting and trail hunting, nor between foxhounds and blood hounds. The general public won't care to distinguish between the vast majority on here who abhor what is going on at the top of horse sport and just normal riders.

Time for "normal" riders to wake up and smell the coffee. These top class equestrians are doing us no good at all with the public.