AmyMay
Situation normal
Have H&H deleted all comments? I can’t see any at all on the Fb page.
CDJ withdrawn from paris
- Thread starter Zoeypxo
- Start date
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
It's on the article about Sandra A
Equi
Well-Known Member
I can’t shake this sad feeling today. It’s not shame because it’s not me doing this, but it’s a sadness for all equestrians. This is what they think we are like. Boo.
Nonjumper
Well-Known Member
Yes there is. Cancel culture is stopping something just because of what might happen as the result of something else. Being held accountable is what happens because of something else.
I don't personally think for one minute that this will be the end of Charlottes career. She will probably get a ban of some kind, and will fall quiet for a while in the competitive world. However, without doubt she will still have work outside of the competitive world and in a few years time, things will have moved on and if she returns it'll be as if nothing ever happened. She'll lose sponsors now because they will try to show themselves doing the right thing, and will lose horses but only because they'll need riders who can take them out competitively. But look at any sport, and you will see everyone come back the moment someone starts competing successfully again. Money talks, make no mistake about that.
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Equi
Well-Known Member
It’s not to me. I wouldn’t want to be on that woman’s wrong side. Though saying that I usually am
AmyMay
Situation normal
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
Barometer of the reach of this. Adolescent non horsey son wanders in. Says I guess you've seen the Charlotte du Jardin story. Yes of course I reply. Then ask him if he'd heard of her before this. 'Of course, she one of our most decorated Olympians'. I ask him who else he has heard of. Reply: 'Carl Hester and Zara Someone or Other'. Anyone else. Nope.
His view of the video? 'It looks horrible but I guess that's what they have to do to make horse do those weird prancy sideways-ey things.'
I am genuinely surprised that the only equestrians he has heard of are 2 dressage medallists and the Queen's granddaughter., But shows how famous outisde if the world of dressage, or even horses, she is.
His view of the video? 'It looks horrible but I guess that's what they have to do to make horse do those weird prancy sideways-ey things.'
I am genuinely surprised that the only equestrians he has heard of are 2 dressage medallists and the Queen's granddaughter., But shows how famous outisde if the world of dressage, or even horses, she is.
Chianti
Well-Known Member
But why would she suddenly resort to this form of 'training'? If she's never used a whip in that way, why would she randomly think 'I know I'll get a lunge whip and keep hitting it's back end... that WILL make it do XY or Z'? Even I know that if a horse isn't doing what you want you don't just keep pushing it to do it- you think about why it can't and go back to what it can do confidently and then either stop for the day or try to rebuild from that point - in much smaller steps.
NinjaPony
Well-Known Member
I’ve spent today feeling really disheartened and depressed; the rot goes so deep. I’d already been moving much more to classical dressage in how I ride and the type of horses I’m riding but more than ever I think this is the only way I feel comfortable continuing to ride and train. Her influence and reach go so deep, it really feels like a catastrophic day for dressage.
planete
Well-Known Member
Yes, teach the rider how to prepare the horse physically and mentally so that he can execute the movement without being bullied.
Bruce17
Well-Known Member
Me too
they sounded like the were supporting her last night. Now they're saying she had a tantrum at them one time and refused to do a photoshoot?!?Edit: either way they aren't coming across too professional
KC31
Active Member
The woman that runs that business is a raving lunatic!! I wouldn't buy anything off them if they were the only place to stock it. So i am not at all surprised with what they've put.
Abacus
Well-Known Member
I don’t disagree with this at all. I wasn’t commenting on what is likely or whether she has in fact done this before. Just some surprise that nothing else is coming out, although I take the point in another post that the people likely to have that information are the most likely to stay quiet.
ETA: I was also making the point that unless other evidence emerges, the FEI and general public will have to treat it as an isolated incident.
paddy555
Well-Known Member
the DM has now got the bit between it's teeth (and the noseband is very tight!)
www.dailymail.co.uk
Inside the brutal world of dressage after Charlotte Dujardin scandal
British Olympian Charlotte Dujardin has withdrawn from Paris 2024 over a video from a coaching session showed her making 'an error of judgement' four years ago, in her words.
wills_91
Well-Known Member
Show me a time when they have behaved professionallyMe too
Edit: either way they aren't coming across too professional
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
I think the aim is to get the horse to lift it’s legs higher to achieve more exuberant and flashy looking movements. The way to achieve it is to work patiently through the scales of training without trying to force it through physical abuse and accept that that particular horse may not be capable of what is being asked at that point in time. But in my opinion, much of high level dressage is about physically forcing (lots of metal work in the mouth, tight nosebands and spurs).
Smitty
Well-Known Member
I think she was trying to make the horse go faster and more bouncy
Miss_Millie
Well-Known Member
Equisafety appear to have pulled her range from their website (unless it was already discontinued, anyone know?)
I am another who decided last night that I will no longer be shopping with them when I read their tactless post in her defence, now they have completely changed their tune.
I am another who decided last night that I will no longer be shopping with them when I read their tactless post in her defence, now they have completely changed their tune.
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite
Well-Known Member
I have just watched "The Video". Am shocked, appalled and sickened.
Twas a damn shame that lovely horse didn't kick her in the face.
This wasn't "tapping" the horse's legs, it was prolonged whipping - and as this was a short extract from a video we can presume perhaps that this had been going on for a considerable time. That poor horse. And what for pity's sake was the rider thinking of, to let this continue to happen? If someone did this to my horse then I'm damn sure I'd sit there and just let it happen! She is as culpable as Ms Dujardin.
I am deeply disturbed and saddened by this: along with everyone else I was hoping she'd do well for us again at the Olympics. But now I frankly hold nothing but disdain for anyone that could treat a horse in this way. There are absolutely no excuses whatsoever.
Appalling doesn't come anywhere near it.
Twas a damn shame that lovely horse didn't kick her in the face.
This wasn't "tapping" the horse's legs, it was prolonged whipping - and as this was a short extract from a video we can presume perhaps that this had been going on for a considerable time. That poor horse. And what for pity's sake was the rider thinking of, to let this continue to happen? If someone did this to my horse then I'm damn sure I'd sit there and just let it happen! She is as culpable as Ms Dujardin.
I am deeply disturbed and saddened by this: along with everyone else I was hoping she'd do well for us again at the Olympics. But now I frankly hold nothing but disdain for anyone that could treat a horse in this way. There are absolutely no excuses whatsoever.
Appalling doesn't come anywhere near it.
Bellaboo18
Well-Known Member
The rider was a child!
SadKen
Well-Known Member
This is a sad day for equestrianism. Look at the top comment on the daily mail and you’ll see that riding horses to ‘dance’ is being compared to circuses.
Animals in circuses is beyond the pale these days and I think society is moving towards this view for riding horses.
Dressage was the last bastion of ‘clean’ public competitive riding because it didn’t involve the risks to the horse of racing, jumping and eventing. Now the world thinks everyone in dressage trains like that video.
The backlash and societal judgement against riders is going to be massive and it’s only just started. Watch this space: horse riding is in big big trouble as an activity.
skinnydipper
Well-Known Member
gnubee
Well-Known Member
I’m so pleased that whoever sat on this until yesterday did so, because this kind of timing is how you make things like this have enough impact to maybe spark some actual change.
I’ve never trained at high level, but reading the initial reports yesterday trying to figure out what she might have done brought back memories of the riding school instructor threatening to ban me from his lessons for not using the whip hard when he told me to; the one who would get on a horse after a rider fell and smack it for laps until it stopped bucking to the stick. The places putting spurs on novices and telling them to kick harder, and the ones over horsing riders and then giving them draw reins to try to keep control.
Seeing the video today I remembered as a child riding the slow horse where if you didn’t get it going well enough the lunge whip came out, and if the instructor caught you rather than the horse she didn’t really mean the apology - if you were riding better it wouldn’t have happened. The rider sits there and takes it quietly in the same way as coaches are often able to intimidate young athletes into doing things they aren’t comfortable with, because there’s a power dynamic and a quiet suspicion that everyone else is ok with this and you must just not want to be good enough if you don’t put up with it too.
These instances were fairly isolated across a number of years in a generally instructive and fun riding environment, but I can name at least one from almost every one of the many riding schools I went to around the country over 20+ years. I was never comfortable with it and knew from very early on that it wouldn’t be how my horses were handled when I was lucky enough to get my own, but it was completely normal. It wasn’t done in secret and hidden from students or parents, it was blatant out in the open stuff that made it clear this was part of how you train horses and riders. Why would you ever report it if you’ve always been in an environment where that’s the way things are done?
I’m very wary about letting professionals handle my horses because I know my standard of ok is not in line with the industry. I’m always there for the vet and the farrier. I’ve had two trainers here and one of them hadn’t been invited back since the day she nagged with the reins so hard trying to get an outline that my horse reared, with me watching. She thought it was normal.
I’ve never trained at high level, but reading the initial reports yesterday trying to figure out what she might have done brought back memories of the riding school instructor threatening to ban me from his lessons for not using the whip hard when he told me to; the one who would get on a horse after a rider fell and smack it for laps until it stopped bucking to the stick. The places putting spurs on novices and telling them to kick harder, and the ones over horsing riders and then giving them draw reins to try to keep control.
Seeing the video today I remembered as a child riding the slow horse where if you didn’t get it going well enough the lunge whip came out, and if the instructor caught you rather than the horse she didn’t really mean the apology - if you were riding better it wouldn’t have happened. The rider sits there and takes it quietly in the same way as coaches are often able to intimidate young athletes into doing things they aren’t comfortable with, because there’s a power dynamic and a quiet suspicion that everyone else is ok with this and you must just not want to be good enough if you don’t put up with it too.
These instances were fairly isolated across a number of years in a generally instructive and fun riding environment, but I can name at least one from almost every one of the many riding schools I went to around the country over 20+ years. I was never comfortable with it and knew from very early on that it wouldn’t be how my horses were handled when I was lucky enough to get my own, but it was completely normal. It wasn’t done in secret and hidden from students or parents, it was blatant out in the open stuff that made it clear this was part of how you train horses and riders. Why would you ever report it if you’ve always been in an environment where that’s the way things are done?
I’m very wary about letting professionals handle my horses because I know my standard of ok is not in line with the industry. I’m always there for the vet and the farrier. I’ve had two trainers here and one of them hadn’t been invited back since the day she nagged with the reins so hard trying to get an outline that my horse reared, with me watching. She thought it was normal.
lynz88
Well-Known Member
I will probably receive flack for this but just cracking the whip to encourage forward movement (assuming that's what she's trying to get and looks like she is also doing this???) is one thing....hitting and literally beating the horse with the whip (especially with that backhand...yikes) is another. And why on earth are people laughing? To me it just confirms that there are people that think this is ok?? That people find this behaviour funny??? I couldn't really hear the comment about the whip hitting him hard though....but whatever she actually said doesn't sound ok at all. It does sound like there is some frustration mixed in there with the horse not performing whatever move she was trying to get (???) but she also clearly knew exactly what she was doing as if she's used the technique before. Just my analysis, could be completely off the mark. I am in NO WAY defending he or her actions. Just trying to analyze and understand.
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Esmae
Well-Known Member
Well whoever filmed this debacle seemed to think it was amusing. I am hugely disappointed in her. This is just not acceptable. Poor horse looks very uncomfortable even without the whip. I find myself wondering what goes on when nobody is there if this is what happens with an audience. Awful.the DM has now got the bit between it's teeth (and the noseband is very tight!)
Inside the brutal world of dressage after Charlotte Dujardin scandal
British Olympian Charlotte Dujardin has withdrawn from Paris 2024 over a video from a coaching session showed her making 'an error of judgement' four years ago, in her words.
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
It’s not just a catastrophic day for dressage. This is catastrophic for all horse sports and all horse owners.
EventingMum
Well-Known Member
I am hopeful this may be the wake up call the sport needs, if it isn't then those in equestrian sport are going to be further alienated from the general public. There has been so much talk of social licence in equestrianism everyone, whatever their level, must be held accountable or the whole industry is in jeopardy.
IMO this is far worse than the lady that kicked her horse when loading after hunting although that was abhorrent too. CJD is probably one of the best known names in the sport and with this comes a responsibility to upholds standards and so there must be far reaching consequences however, my fear is that in 12 months time she will still be competing at the top level.
I am well aware that unethical practices are rife throughout horse sport in all disciplines, at the lower levels some may be due to ignorance but at the higher levels that is no defence. I have witnessed some awful practices in the past and, to my shame, I should have been more proactive in calling them out but who to? With no recordings it would be one person's word against another. However, recordings cannot lie and with everyone having a mobile phone in their pocket reporting things should be much easier now.
As far as dressage is concerned, the sport has evolved to the point we are rewarding unnatural, exaggerated movement that the dressage horses of yesteryear would not have been capable of and so the horses currently bred to achieve this are commanding such high prices that those investing in the sport want more reward for their money which in turn results in pressure on the trainers and riders to achieve this and resort to more widespread use of unacceptable practices to the detriment of the horse. I, like so many would love to see dressage pared back to a point that the exaggerated movement, forced outline and tension isn't rewarded, if that means tests are a little less complex then so be it, at least horses would be happier, many would have longer careers and perhaps training practices would not be so harsh.
My great fear is that, whatever the discipline, harsh training methods are so ingrained in the equestrian world it is going to be impossible to eradicate them and people will just become more clandestine in training. I do think this is the 21st century version of a Black Beauty situation and as a supposed nation of horse lovers we should hang our heads in shame. We are pretty quick to report welfare issues where horses are under fed or lack proper footcare nowadays but bad training methods need to be afforded the same response and we have to be brave enough to do so and by "we" I mean everybody from riders, owners, grooms, judges, competition organisers and mere observers, however hard it is. The days of turning a blind eye must end.
IMO this is far worse than the lady that kicked her horse when loading after hunting although that was abhorrent too. CJD is probably one of the best known names in the sport and with this comes a responsibility to upholds standards and so there must be far reaching consequences however, my fear is that in 12 months time she will still be competing at the top level.
I am well aware that unethical practices are rife throughout horse sport in all disciplines, at the lower levels some may be due to ignorance but at the higher levels that is no defence. I have witnessed some awful practices in the past and, to my shame, I should have been more proactive in calling them out but who to? With no recordings it would be one person's word against another. However, recordings cannot lie and with everyone having a mobile phone in their pocket reporting things should be much easier now.
As far as dressage is concerned, the sport has evolved to the point we are rewarding unnatural, exaggerated movement that the dressage horses of yesteryear would not have been capable of and so the horses currently bred to achieve this are commanding such high prices that those investing in the sport want more reward for their money which in turn results in pressure on the trainers and riders to achieve this and resort to more widespread use of unacceptable practices to the detriment of the horse. I, like so many would love to see dressage pared back to a point that the exaggerated movement, forced outline and tension isn't rewarded, if that means tests are a little less complex then so be it, at least horses would be happier, many would have longer careers and perhaps training practices would not be so harsh.
My great fear is that, whatever the discipline, harsh training methods are so ingrained in the equestrian world it is going to be impossible to eradicate them and people will just become more clandestine in training. I do think this is the 21st century version of a Black Beauty situation and as a supposed nation of horse lovers we should hang our heads in shame. We are pretty quick to report welfare issues where horses are under fed or lack proper footcare nowadays but bad training methods need to be afforded the same response and we have to be brave enough to do so and by "we" I mean everybody from riders, owners, grooms, judges, competition organisers and mere observers, however hard it is. The days of turning a blind eye must end.
Zoeypxo
Well-Known Member
It seems in the video the rider did say something as charlotte was hitting the horse but i cant make out what she said.
It really doesn’t appear to be a lapse in judgment moment, i am sad to see the video.
I had a lesson once with a top instructor once, my horse was napping at the gate which is naughty yes but is a very rare occurrence for her, instructor asked if he could get a lunge whip and use it on her to force her past the gate, i said no you can not, luckily he didn’t try and do it anyway and did respect me saying no.
If he had even touched the whip handle i wouldve immediately got off and left, but i am an adult and not scared of telling someone to f off. At 15 i would have been scared to say something for sure!
It really doesn’t appear to be a lapse in judgment moment, i am sad to see the video.
I had a lesson once with a top instructor once, my horse was napping at the gate which is naughty yes but is a very rare occurrence for her, instructor asked if he could get a lunge whip and use it on her to force her past the gate, i said no you can not, luckily he didn’t try and do it anyway and did respect me saying no.
If he had even touched the whip handle i wouldve immediately got off and left, but i am an adult and not scared of telling someone to f off. At 15 i would have been scared to say something for sure!
Slightlyconfused
Go away, I'm reading
There was someone if GMB insta post saying something along the same lines. One person agreed with her then a load of other horsey people told her to get back in her box this is not right and she should be punished.
meggymoo
Well-Known Member
Regardless of whether or not the timing was a ploy to derail Olympic hopes or not, I find it sad that the (presumably) adults who were concerned enough to video didn’t have the courage to take it further at the time. If they had, that would have been 2.5 or 4 years (depending on who you believe) worth of cruelty horses wouldn’t have had to have endured.
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