cauda equina
Well-Known Member
Which raises another ethical question - if a child rider is unable to advocate for the welfare of their horse, surely they should be accompanied by an adult who can
CDJ withdrawn from paris
- Thread starter Zoeypxo
- Start date
Which raises another ethical question - if a child rider is unable to advocate for the welfare of their horse, surely they should be accompanied by an adult who can
Oneday
Member
Dressage needs to go back to basics, see very few horses these days where poll is the highest point, which I was always told was correct. If poll isn't highest point, or nose behind vertical, at any point, shouldn't score more than a 5 regardless of how flashy the movement was. Would get rid of the draw rein / heavy handed brigade.
Zoeypxo
Well-Known Member
Definitely!
Abacus
Well-Known Member
A headline in the Telegraph reads ‘Olympic ban is a crushing blow to equestrianism’s fight for existence’. You’re right - it’s not just dressage, not just equestrian sport, but all equestrianism. The full article is quite supportive, of her achievements and of the sport within the Olympics (perhaps wrongly). But headlines like this do influence opinion.
cauda equina
Well-Known Member
And the zealots like Peta weigh in - this is a gift to them
Trickywooo
Well-Known Member
I have seen so many comments online directed at horse riders in general. "They don't care about their horses" "it's all abuse". The equestrian world needs a wake up call. We ask so much of these beautiful animals and they mostly comply without complaint. There is still so much that needs to be dealt with across ALL equestrian sports, from the use of whips in racing, the gadgets and bits used to get the horse in an outline in dressage, tapping the legs to elevate the motion, the risk to the animals at xc jumps, the morbidly obese creates that are being paraded around the show ring...... the list is endless.
We all need to take a good hard look at what we expect of our horses and the way we treat them. The world is watching.
We all need to take a good hard look at what we expect of our horses and the way we treat them. The world is watching.
Jenko109
Well-Known Member
They were discussing it on Loose Women today.
They thought it was mad that she was all over the news and pulled from the Olympics, yet the Dutch Olympian who raped a 12yo child is allowed to compete like nothing ever happened and is barely mentioned by anyone.
They thought it was mad that she was all over the news and pulled from the Olympics, yet the Dutch Olympian who raped a 12yo child is allowed to compete like nothing ever happened and is barely mentioned by anyone.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
I am afraid I am not surprised.Guys, be careful out there....
I've just got back from taking baby pony out for 30 mins and got screamed at, yes, screamed at!
"You effing horse riders should just stop, it's effing cruel, seen it on the TV this morning and you are all disgusting!"
Many more expletives as baby pony carefully plodded on, it was quite sickening
Mrs. Jingle
Well-Known Member
Yes they will of course and they will make sure their gift is spread far and wide and will encompass all equestrianism, not just this one section. We will all pay the price for allowing horse training, in particular the upper echelons, to become abusive and unacceptable.
Pinkvboots
Well-Known Member
I also thought why would you allow someone to do that while a kid is riding its bad.
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
To me the risk of what she did is much more far reaching than the horse … what if the horse had lost the plot (rightly so) and gone a bit nuts around the arena - cue exit of the child rider with potentially life changing injuries… it’s a stupid thing to have done on so many levels.
The really worrisome bit is of course that she doesn’t look angry or like she has lost it - she looks ordered and in control and her timing is fairly good and that , my dear friends , takes practice…
The really worrisome bit is of course that she doesn’t look angry or like she has lost it - she looks ordered and in control and her timing is fairly good and that , my dear friends , takes practice…
tristars
Well-Known Member
Non of our horses ever breath like that when working in the school, I should think that horses is terrified, I just went outside to see the horses and for some strange reason I felt lighter as if the sun is about come out and big changes are on the way, I could just feel the future of horses welfare opening up big time e, it's just been announced there was other times thr horse was abused but no footage is available
alexomahony
Well-Known Member
I feel so sad today about all of this. Before I saw the video, I'd really, really hoped it would be nothing too bad - probably like many of us. How wrong we were .
I'm not a huge CDJ fan or non-fan, but I saw a commment on FB earlier today that I felt really hit the nail on the head. I think what's really making me feel this, almost grief-like feeling is that she's shattered the dream that the level of success she achieved could be done so without the cruel training methods we'd seen from others at the top level of the sport. I really thought she was one of the good guys.
. I'm not a huge CDJ fan or non-fan, but I saw a commment on FB earlier today that I felt really hit the nail on the head. I think what's really making me feel this, almost grief-like feeling is that she's shattered the dream that the level of success she achieved could be done so without the cruel training methods we'd seen from others at the top level of the sport. I really thought she was one of the good guys.
Michen
Well-Known Member
Also waking up with a heavy heart this morning.
We just can’t be trusted with these beautiful, generous animals. Hugging mine extra tight.
We just can’t be trusted with these beautiful, generous animals. Hugging mine extra tight.
reynold
Well-Known Member
All over Sky news just now. About 5 minutes of run time devoted to it including the Dutch lawyer stating the the complainant had noted the previous dressage issues this year (Helgstrand) and when she saw CDJ being promoted for the Olympics she felt she 'had to do something' and made the complaint to the FEI. Claimed that the timing was otherwise not deliberate.....
PETA of course quoted as well - requesting horse sports out of the Olympics.
Early part of the video shown and very emotive language by the SKY reporter throughout.
I'm not surprised at the backlash after the video was released to the media. CDJ shouldn't have done that as the horse patently wasn't understanding the answers he was being asked to produce. It was time to take a step back and take another approach to achieving the required result of apparently improving the canter.
It is becoming more and more apparent that time and cost pressures to produce quick results are meaning that the wrong methods are being chosen to produce 'results'. GP dressage horses at 9 when it used to be 13/14 and similar 5* horses at 8/9 in SJumping.
As we've discussed many times on here it's not just the younger age that these horses are being 'made' to produce the goods but the fact that there is so much physical wastage in veterinary problems resulting from the push for quick results.
PETA of course quoted as well - requesting horse sports out of the Olympics.
Early part of the video shown and very emotive language by the SKY reporter throughout.
I'm not surprised at the backlash after the video was released to the media. CDJ shouldn't have done that as the horse patently wasn't understanding the answers he was being asked to produce. It was time to take a step back and take another approach to achieving the required result of apparently improving the canter.
It is becoming more and more apparent that time and cost pressures to produce quick results are meaning that the wrong methods are being chosen to produce 'results'. GP dressage horses at 9 when it used to be 13/14 and similar 5* horses at 8/9 in SJumping.
As we've discussed many times on here it's not just the younger age that these horses are being 'made' to produce the goods but the fact that there is so much physical wastage in veterinary problems resulting from the push for quick results.
alexomahony
Well-Known Member
Exactly this - they give us so much and we rely and take advantage of their forgiving nature. Today, and every day, I'm super proud to be a 'pony patter' and not a elite competitor!
ElleSkywalker
As excited as Kitty about to be a bridesmaid
Sadly this will be as it will be deemed he's 'served his sentence and paid his debt' whereas CJD is still being investigated
Welly Boot
Active Member
I literally have no words as this is unravelling... I have had to explain to those at work, this is not how you make a horse 'dance'
AmyMay
Situation normal
Fair.
reynold
Well-Known Member
According to the Telegraph she's now had her UKSport funding suspended and been dropped as an ambassador by the charity Brooke.
UK Gov sources also stating that plans to award her a damehood have been shelved.
UK Gov sources also stating that plans to award her a damehood have been shelved.
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
Should’ve been Carl anyway … but that’s another story - I hope he knows nothing about this — I have had lessons from Carl in the dim and distant past and never had anything even approaching this I don’t think he ever had a whip in his hand tbh
vannersrus
Well-Known Member
I guess so
I’m not sure many on here would stand by and watch that without challenging her though and then sit on the video for 3 years . Odd
skint1
Well-Known Member
I couldn't quite explain why I felt so sad about it, but this has explained it so wellI feel so sad today about all of this. Before I saw the video, I'd really, really hoped it would be nothing too bad - probably like many of us. How wrong we were
I'm not a huge CDJ fan or non-fan, but I saw a commment on FB earlier today that I felt really hit the nail on the head. I think what's really making me feel this, almost grief-like feeling is that she's shattered the dream that the level of success she achieved could be done so without the cruel training methods we'd seen from others at the top level of the sport. I really thought she was one of the good guys.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
For those asking what the purpose of using the whip in this instance is, it's to encourage more engagement, roundness, throughness, and "jump" in the paces. Used judiciously, as a tap at exactly the right moment, it is effective. Used like this, with this amount of force and repeatedly it absolutely is not acceptable and is abusive.
I've never particularly been a fan of her riding, having trained at Carl's yard years ago when Valegro was in his early ascendency I can confirm that she is very firm, shall we say, and extremely driven. That is what it takes to get to where she is. I smile when people tell me how gentle British dressage training is; it takes more than a bit of turnout and some hacking to make training kind. However this sort of extreme pressure and use of the whip is not a usual occurrence, and certainly not when Carl is in charge, but I'm not sure how much influence over her he has nowadays; she wasn't all that inclined to listen to him even back then.
I've never particularly been a fan of her riding, having trained at Carl's yard years ago when Valegro was in his early ascendency I can confirm that she is very firm, shall we say, and extremely driven. That is what it takes to get to where she is. I smile when people tell me how gentle British dressage training is; it takes more than a bit of turnout and some hacking to make training kind. However this sort of extreme pressure and use of the whip is not a usual occurrence, and certainly not when Carl is in charge, but I'm not sure how much influence over her he has nowadays; she wasn't all that inclined to listen to him even back then.
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
I have just watched it again. There are people laughing off camera as the horse is hit. The rider is using her spurs heavily. Yes I know shes only 15 but still. CD seems to say" Im just so shit at hitting them hard" I feel that this was not a one off I am afraid. The rider does say something that can not be heard. My questions are who was laughing? It was a woman, who was videoing? Were they parents, grooms, or friends of the rider? If they were involved in reporting this why did they find it funny at the time?
I am honestly disgusted by this, this was not a one off smack out of temper. We all know that stuff goes on behind the scenes but to see someone as high profile as CD doing what very much looks to me a routine way of working for her is just awful.
I am honestly disgusted by this, this was not a one off smack out of temper. We all know that stuff goes on behind the scenes but to see someone as high profile as CD doing what very much looks to me a routine way of working for her is just awful.
Grassy
Well-Known Member
Someone at my yard has identified where this video was taken, I think that there will be more unpleasant revelations to come sadly as she says this was a common occurrence
Sandstone1
Well-Known Member
I have always admired CH for the way he keeps his horses and he seems to care about them. I am very disappointed in CD and really hope that nothing comes out about him being involved in all this.
southerncomfort
Well-Known Member
Same. I was feeling so low I had to go for a walk to shake it off.
Came back to an FB comment from a friend saying that none of this should have been released and it should all have dealt with behind closed doors.
Keeping things behind closed doors is why abuse happens in the first place.
If it were a video of Joe Bloggs rather than CDJ I daresay they'd be quite happy to see them publicly flogged.
Cortez
Tough but Fair
I left competitive dressage many years ago precisely because I wasn't prepared to do the things to horses that others were in order to win. I gravitated to Carl because he doesn't, and he doesn't because A. he's a supremely talented and kind person, and B. he doesn't have that killer win-at-all-costs instinct. Charlotte does, and in spades.
quirky
Well-Known Member
Very disappointing to see the video but not surprised.
I used to be on a yard with an ex olympic dressage rider, she used a similar method to teach piaffe.
In general though, she was a hard, hard rider. Her horses were not given an easy ride.
What did surprise me is the amount of people who were happy to pay her over inflated charges to have their horses beasted by her.
She insisted on riding the horse, so if you had lessons from her, it was guaranteed your horse was going to have a rough ride.
Thankfully, I wasn't the least but interested in competing and gave her a wide berth. She was eventually asked to leave the yard as the owner didn't like her training methods.
I used to be on a yard with an ex olympic dressage rider, she used a similar method to teach piaffe.
In general though, she was a hard, hard rider. Her horses were not given an easy ride.
What did surprise me is the amount of people who were happy to pay her over inflated charges to have their horses beasted by her.
She insisted on riding the horse, so if you had lessons from her, it was guaranteed your horse was going to have a rough ride.
Thankfully, I wasn't the least but interested in competing and gave her a wide berth. She was eventually asked to leave the yard as the owner didn't like her training methods.