CDJ withdrawn from paris

[Identityincrisis]

I hate what Charlotte has done. But what I hate more is seeing friends, people I know, stick up for her, admit they've done the same/worse and stay mute on the subject. Why are people so afraid of standing up for what is right?

How is anyone able to defend this?

I’ve just come off FB as I can’t bear people saying they’re not condoning what she did then defending her. It was really starting to wind me up so I’ve deleted it. People were ridiculing me for saying it shouldn’t be dropped, less than 48 hours after it had dropped!

If she hadn’t portrayed herself as an ethical trainer and having horse welfare at the forefront of her mind, then I wouldn’t have felt quite as strongly (well I would but hey!) but you can’t put yourself out there as Penny Perfect and cry when video evidence proves otherwise. I’m sorry but there is very little context where what she did was acceptable, other than the horse being in a dangerous attack mode and she had to defend herself or others

Thank the Lord HHO are seeing this for what it is

 

[meleeka]

Carl's condemnation (no paywall) - https://archive.md/O6xqE

the link isn't working for me.

 

[FieldOrnaments]

I'm sure everyone is `aware of who the potential "outer" is by now. Daren't discuss it on here in case I get the thread closed especially as the name got removed yesterday.
There are some interesting posts on the FB group

"equestrians it's time to act" pages

where this person is discussed.
I looked at the person's FB page and one of their main pics, to my very innocent little dressage mind didn't look over impressive. Ears back, horse didn't look happy and overbent, BTV. Just like the rest of them.
Obviously as someone who doesn't aspire to GP dressage I cannot in any way comment but I thought the FB page was interesting.

can you pm me name please?

 

[Mare Stare]

the link isn't working for me.

I'm not sure if it is blocked on here because it goes to an archive site. It might work if you copy and paste it into a browser. Here is a different link that might work- http://archive.today/2024.07.25-143...ujardin-carl-hester-condemn-video-horse-whip/

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I can't even bring myself to look at any more of the FB reaction. Let's be kind - I've seen worse - Caroline Flack and so on and so forth. Oh and let's not forgot it is the rider's fault as they aren't 'good enough'

 

[sbloom]

Charlotte Dujardin ‘universally condemned’ by GB team-mate and mentor Carl Hester

British Olympic star seen on video striking a horse 24 times ‘like elephant in the circus’

www.telegraph.co.uk

Carl Hester a signatory to a letter from the IDRC (International Dressage Riders Club) condemning CDJ.

Also signed by Isabell Werth, of Germany, Kyra Kyrklund, Hans Peter Minderhout, of the Netherlands, and Catherine Haddad, of the USA

As others have said, Isabell? Hypocrite in the extreme, and this is the issue when we do not look at the results of the training and critically examine whether the training is building the horse up or breaking it down. She may well not use lunge whips on her horses but hells bells, her training is suspect as of course is her support of Helgstrand. Slightly nauseous here.

Copied and pasted from D.T.

Is the video a targeted attempt against Dujardin?​

Yes, clearly. In an interview with Telegraph Sport, the whistleblower’s lawyer, Stephan Wensing, acknowledged his client could not stomach the prospect of Dujardin winning another medal.
Explaining why she had taken at least two years to alert authorities, he said his client was initially “thinking this must be normal” after witnessing the whipping. “My client asked around and was warned against speaking out in the UK,” he said. “But last year my client saw others suspended in the UK and elsewhere.” Over the weekend, he added, “she eventually made a decision to let me admit the complaint to the FEI”, who “took this immediately very seriously”.

Could it have been set up by a rival team?​

Less likely. Such suggestions are vehemently denied by the lawyer. Telegraph Sport understands the unidentified 19-year-old woman on horseback for the lesson with Dujardin is English. It is not clear where the sponsor who took the film comes from but Wensing is a Dutch lawyer and the first details of the Dujardin video emerge on an equestrian website in the Netherlands.
It’s understood that bad blood between the British and Dutch equestrian camps stretches back to London 2012, when the team of Dujardin, Carl Hester and Laura Bechtolsheimer swept the board with gold in both individual and team events, leaving the favourites Netherlands with silver and bronze medals respectively. But there are no substantiated links between the claims in the Netherlands and any member of the Dutch equestrian team.
The Netherlands Olympic team, meanwhile, has been busy dealing with its own scandal in recent weeks, facing severe criticism for allowing volleyball player Steven van de Velde to compete despite being previously convicted for raping a 12-year-old British girl.

It has nothing to do with the Dutch from what I can see; yes I've been alerted to the identity of the whistleblower and yes, it looks like they are probably hypocrites too. Isn't this fun?!!

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Oh and to add insult to injury....Shouty Vet has gone all holier than thou on FB!

 

[Sanversera]

Carl's condemnation (no paywall) - https://archive.md/O6xqE

Thank you so much for posting this link. It seems that Carl owns the yard she's on. I hope he gives her notice to leave. And the RSPCA have said they will support the fei. Good news.

 

[cauda equina]

As others have said, Isabell? Hypocrite in the extreme, and this is the issue when we do not look at the results of the training and critically examine whether the training is building the horse up or breaking it down. She may well not use lunge whips on her horses but hells bells, her training is suspect as of course is her support of Helgstrand. Slightly nauseous here.



It has nothing to do with the Dutch from what I can see; yes I've been alerted to the identity of the whistleblower and yes, it looks like they are probably hypocrites too. Isn't this fun?!!

Wasn't IW supportive of Cesar Parra too?

 

[Equi]

I’ve felt like Carl was distancing himself from Charlotte for a while now. I was actually going to post about it but then didn’t cause I really don’t follow them all that much bar big events like this. Anyway.


As to horse riding being banned never happening in our life time.. well we no longer have circus animals, orca being bred in the USA, many zoos are phasing out larger animals. It can happen.

 

[sbloom]

Wasn't IW supportive of Cesar Parra too?

Yeah you could be right. Ugh.

 

[equinerebel]

Incidentally, was that whip sound enhanced in the editing because none of mine sound like that?

What on earth are you doing to test that theory out?

 

[meleeka]

I'm not sure if it is blocked on here because it goes to an archive site. It might work if you copy and paste it into a browser. Here is a different link that might work- http://archive.today/2024.07.25-143...ujardin-carl-hester-condemn-video-horse-whip/

Thanks. It works now. It doesn't say a lot though, just that they encourage members to abide by FEI rules. The fact that it's also signed by IW means it's worth very little imo.

 

[lizziebell]

Oh and to add insult to injury....Shouty Vet has gone all holier than thou on FB!

Of course, she can’t not not mention it, just mention she’s not going to mention it

 

[Kat]

Bloomfields have now confirmed they are suspending their sponsorship of her.

Apparently they had already removed the boxes before the announcement.

 

[Bruce17]

I'm sure everyone is `aware of who the potential "outer" is by now. Daren't discuss it on here in case I get the thread closed especially as the name got removed yesterday.
There are some interesting posts on the FB group

"equestrians it's time to act" pages

where this person is discussed.
I looked at the person's FB page and one of their main pics, to my very innocent little dressage mind didn't look over impressive. Ears back, horse didn't look happy and overbent, BTV. Just like the rest of them.
Obviously as someone who doesn't aspire to GP dressage I cannot in any way comment but I thought the FB page was interesting.

That was my post, I asked admin for it to be removed. I know it's all over the internet already but on reflection I felt it wasn't my place to name her, as she had obviously wished to remain anonymous for a reason.

Although reading further this morning, she's not exactly all sunshine and rainbows herself.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Oh and to add insult to injury....Shouty Vet has gone all holier than thou on FB!

Oh I was waiting for her to pop up, as the original SV thread stemmed from her saying the criticism of pros needs to stop

Could you pm me what she's put I'm blocked and it won't let me expand or see the comments, and I cba to set up a new account just for her

 

[GypsGal1718]

If release was deliberate at this time or not it is terrible. It shows to me that she does not understand horses, the horse was telling her it was confused/scared kicking at the whip and they were laughing. Poor thing.

 

[eahotson]

Interesting combination of names alongside the words "ethical training" ...

Very interesting names .

 

[HollyWoozle]

I've got say thanks to HHO for giving me hope at this time - I have a lot of "horsey people" on my work FB account (as work in equestrian field to a degree) and I've seen so many posts defending CDJ, saying she is such a fantastic horsewoman etc. It has actually shocked me more than the video itself, the number of people who can condone it. It just further proves that the rot goes deep.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Saracen Horse Feeds have withdrawn sponsorship too... but they do say they they will "ensure there is no disruption to [the horses'] nutrition management".

 

[SAS56]

Has Anna Ross waded in yet - she usually has a lot to say for herself.

 

[eahotson]

I think it’s about stopping at nothing to win. Anything was considered justifiable if the cause was success.

This is how many of us were taught, with our instructor’s whip hitting the horse and the child. I saw horses being beaten as a child, and I think it normalised this for today’s adults.

I also don’t think that beating a horse is ever an effective or clever way to improve his way of going, because it makes the horse & rider tense.

Saw children beaten as well.

 

[ester]

Saracen Horse Feeds have withdrawn sponsorship too... but they do say they they will "ensure there is no disruption to [the horses'] nutrition management".

Fairfax said that too

 

[JFTDWS]

And for the 3rd time I never said I was condoning her actions! However context is everything I am sorry if you don't grasp that

Example. Someone puts up a picture of you aggressively restraining your horse yanking or pulling on it's mouth. You look awful. But rest of video shows you trying to stop your horse escaping on to a main road. In those circumstances the end justifies the means. You wouldn't just pat it and say there there don't bugger off. You'd do what you could to prevent it happening.

It is no way the same...but it does explain the rational behind context...that's all.

I AM NOT MAKING EXCUSES FOR HER. SHE WAS WRONG I AGREE.

Just be interested to see the whole lesson.

When you ask for “context”, using analogies such as this, is it any wonder people think you’re excusing her behaviour?

In the example you offer, there is justification for the rough behaviour. By asking for context, you’re suggesting there is some circumstance that could justify hitting a horse repeatedly on the legs. That is how your post reads in the context of your own choice of example.

FWIW, I do not believe the rest of the footage would in any way explain her actions, and I suspect the whole video is uncomfortable viewing for those of us uncomfortable with the nature of modern dressage.

 

[Rowreach]

I've got say thanks to HHO for giving me hope at this time - I have a lot of "horsey people" on my work FB account (as work in equestrian field to a degree) and I've seen so many posts defending CDJ, saying she is such a fantastic horsewoman etc. It has actually shocked me more than the video itself, the number of people who can condone it. It just further proves that the rot goes deep.

I agree, generally on here, and those friends I've spoken to in real life, have been far more realistic (and balanced) in their responses than some of the posts (including Facebook friends) I've seen online.

And on a positive, let's learn from it note, our riding club is reviewing its horse welfare policy and beefing it up in light of what's happened this week. Just so we are crystal clear about what we will absolutely not tolerate at a local level.

 

[Bobthecob15]

Le Mieux have now stopped sponsoring too

 

[FieldOrnaments]

how many sponsors did she have!?

 

[Bobthecob15]

how many sponsors did she have!?

I guess a lot when you are number 1!

 

[Honey08]

What on earth are you doing to test that theory out?

Just cracking a lunge whip, not hitting a horse, I presume. I thought it was v loud too, but that’s not v important anyway.