CDJ withdrawn from paris

[teapot]

I didn't want to start another thread for it, but it's already started.... And we all thought that they would be playing 'holier than thou' considering the CDJ debacle.
It makes me sick to my stomach, if I had tickets I certainly wouldn't be going. Get it banned, from the Olympics and at elite level full stop - when is enough ever going to be enough? Ban it and then rebuild it from scratch with goodness at its core for those who do it correctly (Becky, Lewis, Carl et al), however that is achieved.
(And before anyone tropes out the 'it's a moment in time', no it wasn't, the many photos were posted by the stud who bred the horse, and they were all like this - now deleted after backlash in the comments)

I'm not a violent person but I'd quite like to put that double in his mouth, strap it shut and then try and rip his jaw off with it for 2 hours

View attachment 143488View attachment 143489

That's an event horse - the dressage horses don't arrive in Versailles until tomorrow. Not that that changes anything but just to clarify different sport.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I didn't want to start another thread for it, but it's already started.... And we all thought that they would be playing 'holier than thou' considering the CDJ debacle.
It makes me sick to my stomach, if I had tickets I certainly wouldn't be going. Get it banned, from the Olympics and at elite level full stop - when is enough ever going to be enough? Ban it and then rebuild it from scratch with goodness at its core for those who do it correctly (Becky, Lewis, Carl et al), however that is achieved.
(And before anyone tropes out the 'it's a moment in time', no it wasn't, the many photos were posted by the stud who bred the horse, and they were all like this - now deleted after backlash in the comments)

I'm not a violent person but I'd quite like to put that double in his mouth, strap it shut and then try and rip his jaw off with it for 2 hours

View attachment 143488View attachment 143489

The fact the stud are obviously happy for their horses to be ridden that way too...

 

[AmyMay]

deleted

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I was amazed that we still fund athletes with lottery money regardless of how much money they are making. I wonder how much she got off the rest of us over the years.

Hoping that gets reviewed too, or a cap put in that once they earn x amount (benchmark for each sport) then it's curtailed

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

The fact the stud are obviously happy for their horses to be ridden that way too...

Her musculature in the following photo shows exactly how often she's ridden that way too...

 

[honetpot]

Whether you think deserved or not this woman’s life and her child’s life has been dramatically altered in the last few days, she is being crucified before the altar of social media, taking a step back I can honestly see the Caroline flack situation all over again and as a human being with her own opinions about this $h!t show I pray that doesn’t happen to another young woman.

I think there is huge difference between them. One was a social media and TV celebrity, who was pilloried and her personal life exposed in the media for something done in private arguement, probabely done on the spur of the moment, the sort of thing that unfortuately happens in a lot of relationships, not a good thing but often never reported at all because they are not media stars.

CJD, her profession is training and competing horses, and part of her polularity is based on how she has appeared to treat her horses. She was on the BBC 6pm news about four days before this came out, presenting an image. I do not think she has had her whole personal life pulled apart, most people are just really disapionted and expressed just that, it's like its been a big con trick. What she did was done when she working, and not in private, and didn't even look like spur of the moment.
How do you asses how much you believe someone is done on how the behave, do what they do match up to what they say, she has not only damaged her own reputation, but also made people question anyone who has worked with her and think, did they know this and is this a normal method?

 

[Rowreach]

In what way is it different?
There is the media on her yard and doorstep, she is being slaughtered globally on social media, she has been abandoned by her mentor, there have been death threats on social media.
Heck even one of the most notorious horse abusers in Dressage has more support than her.
Her career is in tatters, her future looks very bleak, she has well documented mental health issues.

So again, how is it different?

Did you actually read what JenJ wrote? If we're talking about empathy and being kind ...

 

[Cortez]

Her musculature in the following photo shows exactly how often she's ridden that way too...

View attachment 143491

That's not a dressage horse.

 

[Burnerbee]

The video isn't pretty, and I don't condone animal abuse, but, just like the "selective" policing and "selective" law and order enforcement we have in the UK, we now have,"selective" outrage by the media, how many of those outraged are happily sat eating their halal slaughtered KFC or Big Mac, or there halal slaughtered supermarket meat, did they check the label, yea, write the numbers on a postage stamp, a lot of people's "outrage" is disillusioned perception of all horse owner riders being rich toffs, with a silver spoon up our a***s, a lot of the outrage is a jealously class issue, and drivers of old BMW's who can't afford a new one, who were held up for 30 seconds on the road by a couple of riders.

Without wishing to go off on a complete tangent can I point out that the majority of halal meat is stunned before slaughter in this country - and halal in its truest form is actually way better for the animal than most meat production. However the majority of all meat reared for peoples consumption in the UK (be it reared here or abroad) and often labelled with reassuring messages is in fact is reared to appallingly low standards.

One thing this does have in common with CJD and other such nastiness is that the public happily accept the results because they don’t see where it comes from.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

That's not a dressage horse.

She's an Olympic horse all the same, she is involved in elite equestrian sport all the same, she is in the spotlight on an international stage all the same - a completely upside down neck and comparative lack of topline tells the same story irrespective of what horse is wearing it.
(also I edited my original post to add that piece of info as an addendum before your reply, I hadn't realised at the time of my original post)

 

[JenJ]

In what way is it different?
There is the media on her yard and doorstep, she is being slaughtered globally on social media, she has been abandoned by her mentor, there have been death threats on social media.
Heck even one of the most notorious horse abusers in Dressage has more support than her.
Her career is in tatters, her future looks very bleak, she has well documented mental health issues.

So again, how is it different?

In the way that honetpot has described so well below (sorry for blatantly borrowing your words @honetpot!)

I think there is huge difference between them. One was a social media and TV celebrity, who was pilloried and her personal life exposed in the media for something done in private arguement, probabely done on the spur of the moment, the sort of thing that unfortuately happens in a lot of relationships, not a good thing but often never reported at all because they are not media stars.

CJD, her profession is training and competing horses, and part of her polularity is based on how she has appeared to treat her horses. She was on the BBC 6pm news about four days before this came out, presenting an image. I do not think she has had her whole personal life pulled apart, most people are just really disapionted and expressed just that, it's like its been a big con trick. What she did was done when she working, and not in private, and didn't even look like spur of the moment.
How do you asses how much you believe someone is done on how the behave, do what they do match up to what they say, she has not only damaged her own reputation, but also made people question anyone who has worked with her and think, did they know this and is this a normal method?

(Additionally, CF was *alleged* to have done something, which remains unproven, and is widely believed to have actually been herself that had been harmed)

 

[Upthecreek]

Should someone be driven to end their life due to merciless trolling though? CDJ by her own admission struggled mentally when her relationship ended a few years ago.

So what is the answer then? Nobody is called out on their unacceptable behaviour in case they have mental health difficulties and can’t cope with the consequences of their actions?

Once news like this is in the public domain there will always be idiots who go completely over the top and I totally agree that she should not be trolled or threatened and the people doing that are in the wrong. But she should absolutely be held accountable for what she has done.

 

[JenJ]

So what is the answer then? Nobody is called out on their unacceptable behaviour in case they have mental health difficulties and can’t cope with the consequences of their actions?

Once news like this is in the public domain there will always be idiots who go completely over the top and I totally agree that she should not be trolled or threatened and the people doing that are in the wrong. But she should absolutely be held accountable for what she has done.

Also - and I will try to shut up about this now - mental health difficulties does not equate to someone taking their own life. Yes, most people who take their own lives will have been experiencing mental health difficulties. But most people who experience mental health difficulties will not take their own life.

 

[Jenko109]

I'm just not part of the hate campaign. Not yet anyway.

I of course do not condone the behaviour, but in all the years that she has been in the public eye, all the hundreds, if not thousands of hours of teaching she has given, this is the only example of her showing poor horsemanship.

I don't know about you, but if I was having a lesson from an Olympian, I would film the whole damn thing! Perhaps we will see more footage from others. Perhaps we won't.

I'm not saying that this should be swept under the carpet. I just do not think her whole career should now be written off as a result. I especially do not think the violence that she is being subjected to by online trolls is okay. Telling someone that you hope a horse kicks them in the head or that their child is going to grow up to be an abuser, is absolutely not okay. It doesn't matter what they have done. I don't care if it's Lucy Letby. You can call someone out for being a bad person without threats of violence or wishes of pain and suffering. It is not what our society should be about. We should be better than that.

One example of wrongdoing should not define a person for the rest of their life and career.

Yes. Hold her to account. Remove her from this years Olympics. Impose a six month ban. Then leave her alone to rebuild her life and her career, for which I'm sure she will be forever grateful for and will go to new lengths to put right what she has done wrong.

**runs and hides**

 

[catembi]

If anyone is interested, I do YouGov surveys and there was a question today on whether Olympic horse sports are cruel.

 

[I'm Dun]

I'm just not part of the hate campaign. Not yet anyway.

I of course do not condone the behaviour, but in all the years that she has been in the public eye, all the hundreds, if not thousands of hours of teaching she has given, this is the only example of her showing poor horsemanship.

I don't know about you, but if I was having a lesson from an Olympian, I would film the whole damn thing! Perhaps we will see more footage from others. Perhaps we won't.

I'm not saying that this should be swept under the carpet. I just do not think her whole career should now be written off as a result. I especially do not think the violence that she is being subjected to by online trolls is okay. Telling someone that you hope a horse kicks them in the head or that their child is going to grow up to be an abuser, is absolutely not okay. It doesn't matter what they have done. I don't care if it's Lucy Letby. You can call someone out for being a bad person without threats of violence or wishes of pain and suffering. It is not what our society should be about. We should be better than that.

One example of wrongdoing should not define a person for the rest of their life and career.

Yes. Hold her to account. Remove her from this years Olympics. Impose a six month ban. Then leave her alone to rebuild her life and her career, for which I'm sure she will be forever grateful for and will go to new lengths to put right what she has done wrong.

**runs and hides**

She doesnt allow lessons to be filmed normally, so I think more evidence might be thin on the ground.

 

[JenJ]

If anyone is interested, I do YouGov surveys and there was a question today on whether Olympic horse sports are cruel.

Interesting. Are you willing/able to put a couple of the filters on please, eg region, age etc?

 

[Bellaboo18]

I'm just not part of the hate campaign. Not yet anyway.

I of course do not condone the behaviour, but in all the years that she has been in the public eye, all the hundreds, if not thousands of hours of teaching she has given, this is the only example of her showing poor horsemanship.

I don't know about you, but if I was having a lesson from an Olympian, I would film the whole damn thing! Perhaps we will see more footage from others. Perhaps we won't.

I'm not saying that this should be swept under the carpet. I just do not think her whole career should now be written off as a result. I especially do not think the violence that she is being subjected to by online trolls is okay. Telling someone that you hope a horse kicks them in the head or that their child is going to grow up to be an abuser, is absolutely not okay. It doesn't matter what they have done. I don't care if it's Lucy Letby. You can call someone out for being a bad person without threats of violence or wishes of pain and suffering. It is not what our society should be about. We should be better than that.

One example of wrongdoing should not define a person for the rest of their life and career.

Yes. Hold her to account. Remove her from this years Olympics. Impose a six month ban. Then leave her alone to rebuild her life and her career, for which I'm sure she will be forever grateful for and will go to new lengths to put right what she has done wrong.

**runs and hides**

I definitely don't agree with death threats or threats of violence full stop.

I also don't support her.

There is of course somewhere in the middle.

I'm not on a Charlotte hate campaign but I hate that video and I hate what cruelty has become normalised and I hope this story stays in the media for a long time so change has to happen.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I wish we could get past the 's/he is a bad person' type of reporting/discussion about this and other incidents. We should be discussing actions, rather than characters. People do bad things sometimes, often at the same time as doing good things, that doesn't make them bad people. It makes them people.

 

[catembi]

I can't post all the breakdowns without doing multiple screenshots for each one as they end up quite long.

Politics - labour is tilted more towards cruel & conservative towards not cruel.
Gender - female more towards cruel.
Region - not a lot in it. Midlands a few percent under for very cruel, and also a couple over for not very cruel.
Age - all over the place. No coherent correlation.
Social grade - mild correlation between very/fairly cruel & lower social grade.

Perhaps someone more patient than me will put the full splits!

 

[equinerebel]

Interesting. Are you willing/able to put a couple of the filters on please, eg region, age etc?

I have done this to save the OP the effort as I was just answering the same question. BTW, it pained me to answer “fairly”

Apologies if I missed some.

 

[misst]

I don't hate her. I used to admire her in the early days - less so the last few years. I am as sure as I can be that this was not a moment in time etc. It looked cold, calm and practiced. I don't want her kicked in the face/head by a horse, I don't want her life ruined (though it may be in the short term at least). I do want accountability and honesty from elite equestrians. I don't wish violence on anyone and condemn anyone threatening physical violence to her or anyone else. Her mental state - I am sorry for the acute pain and humiliation and fear she must be feeling - I cannot imagine it. But this is a self inflicted wound and sadly it didn't have to happen. Unfortunately the horses have no choices in these matters, their wounds are not self inflicted.

 

[sbloom]

The fact the stud are obviously happy for their horses to be ridden that way too...

It shows how rotten the industry is that they think they're great photos that promote their breeding. Eventung trot ups are a catalogue of every postural/topline issue you've ever seen. It's astonishing.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

Just seen this from 2023 linked on a MN thread, it's pretty interesting, especially the split of non FEI affiliated vs affiliated

https://inside.fei.org/system/files/Session%202_Equine%20Ethics%20and%20Wellbeing%20-%20Social%20License%20to%20operate.pdf

 

[Upthecreek]

I'm just not part of the hate campaign. Not yet anyway.

I of course do not condone the behaviour, but in all the years that she has been in the public eye, all the hundreds, if not thousands of hours of teaching she has given, this is the only example of her showing poor horsemanship.

I don't know about you, but if I was having a lesson from an Olympian, I would film the whole damn thing! Perhaps we will see more footage from others. Perhaps we won't.

I'm not saying that this should be swept under the carpet. I just do not think her whole career should now be written off as a result. I especially do not think the violence that she is being subjected to by online trolls is okay. Telling someone that you hope a horse kicks them in the head or that their child is going to grow up to be an abuser, is absolutely not okay. It doesn't matter what they have done. I don't care if it's Lucy Letby. You can call someone out for being a bad person without threats of violence or wishes of pain and suffering. It is not what our society should be about. We should be better than that.

One example of wrongdoing should not define a person for the rest of their life and career.

Yes. Hold her to account. Remove her from this years Olympics. Impose a six month ban. Then leave her alone to rebuild her life and her career, for which I'm sure she will be forever grateful for and will go to new lengths to put right what she has done wrong.

**runs and hides**

Of course you can call people out for bad behaviour without threats of violence and trolling. I don’t think anyone here is suggesting that’s okay?

The only things you can control in life are what you do and how you react to what others do. Charlotte did something that many people find unacceptable and she can’t control how they react. She can take herself off social media and not watch the news, but there is nothing else she can do now except wait for the outcome of the investigation to find out what the sanctions will be.

I struggle to understand how she could continue in her equestrian career after this. She has lost all credibility and ruined the reputation that her success and popularity was built on. She has represented our country numerous times, been an advocate for horse welfare and a role model for young riders. Are you seriously suggesting she can go back to that after watching the video?

 

[Orangehorse]

The rider may have been 15 but I don't suppose for a moment there weren't any other adults around eg whoever was doing the filming for a start

And apparently laughing (I haven't seen the full video, but that is what I was told). I know people can laugh when embarrassed, so maybe that was it.

 

[Jenko109]

I struggle to understand how she could continue in her equestrian career after this. She has lost all credibility and ruined the reputation that her success and popularity was built on. She has represented our country numerous times, been an advocate for horse welfare and a role model for young riders. Are you seriously suggesting she can go back to that after watching the video?

Yes.

It may not look the same this time around, but I believe in second chances and redemption.

 

[Crazy_cat_lady]

I wonder what will happen with her rides? Wait for the investigation to conclude or be moved? Rollkur people still get top rides

 

[Marigold4]

using a picture from an event already banned.

Mea culpa. Didn't check date. Very sorry. Just motivated by a wish to help horses. Not very knowledgeable. Just an amateur rider who cares about horses generally and wishes such things didn't happen. Will leave things to you more knowledgeable people in future.

 

[Upthecreek]

Yes.

It may not look the same this time around, but I believe in second chances and redemption.

I’d like to see her volunteer for RDA or an animal sanctuary. Practice what she has preached about horse welfare and do something to prove she is sorry, rather than pick up where she left off.