CDJ withdrawn from paris

[Cortez]

I see the point for that. I've never quite seen the point of pure dressage.

I take it you’re an eventer then?

 

[Fellewell]

Hah. indeed.

Story yesterday from a Canadian horse site on the whistleblower; comments in the footer are worth a look. https://horsesport.com/cuckson-report-1/youtuber-outed-dujardin-whistleblower-trainer-herself/

Yes thanks for this. It's an excellent piece which says much of what needs to be said. The person who commented about the timing of the release being BS is right there I'd say. It reminds me of the saying: It is always easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them

 

[Upthecreek]

Tom McEwan seems unaware of this - strange that.... It is bl00dy irritating to see people being this disingenuous, flat-out lying in fact. Even if he himself is spotless in this regard, I'd be truly astonished to learn that he's managed to get to the very top of this sport and seen or heard so little that he can be 'shocked' by someone walloping a horse with a lunge whip.

Tom McEwen ‘shocked’ at teammate Dujardin’s horse abuse video scandal

British eventer Tom McEwen insisted the conduct of dressage star Charlotte Dujardin was not reflective of equestrian sports

www.theguardian.com

“I would invite any single one of you to come round and have a look at my yard for an hour, a week, or whatever it took,” said McEwen, who won an Olympic eventing team gold and individual silver medal in Tokyo. “What you see here is the beauty of what happens every single day at home. These horses are looked after as kings and queens”

Disappointing. I wonder if he would agree to have all his training sessions filmed? Easy to be on best behaviour for a specific time when you know people are watching. I do hate it when they say the horses are looked after like kings and queens

 

[SkylarkAscending]

I was chatting to my hairdresser this morning about this (obviously Newent can’t talk about much else at the moment!) and I started thinking about the pure logistics of Charlotte leaving Carl’s yard (which she surely must do)

She rides horses owned by him, he rides horses owned by her (or I think that’s the case, I haven’t paid a huge amount of attention) - however is it all going to be unraveled?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Do Carl and Charlotte share the yard, or is it divided into two?

 

[Esmae]

I take it you’re an eventer then?

A million years ago at low level. I wouldn't contemplate starting now. A well schooled horse on the flat does wonders for other disciplines. Dressage for it's own sake I just don't get tbh.

 

[SAS56]

I was chatting to my hairdresser this morning about this (obviously Newent can’t talk about much else at the moment!) and I started thinking about the pure logistics of Charlotte leaving Carl’s yard (which she surely must do)

She rides horses owned by him, he rides horses owned by her (or I think that’s the case, I haven’t paid a huge amount of attention) - however is it all going to be unraveled?

Not so much now, I believe. He was riding En Vogue which is hers but then Fame came along and I think that he will be Carl's last horse at this level. Can't remember which of Charlotte's he has a share in but that is easy enough to get out of I should think.

 

[SkylarkAscending]

Do Carl and Charlotte share the yard, or is it divided into two?

Well when I went for an interview there they shared it, that was a few years ago now

 

[eahotson]

I don’t think that at all. But why shouldn’t we call out CDJ for her

I don’t think that at all. But why shouldn’t we call out CDJ for her individual actions?

Have you ever wondered why she thought behaviour like that was acceptable?What are you hoping to achieve by calling out Charlotte and ignoring the rest?

 

[equinerebel]

Have you ever wondered why she thought behaviour like that was acceptable?What are you hoping to achieve by calling out Charlotte and ignoring the rest?

I’m not ignoring the rest. I’ve been very critical of equestrian sports both on this thread, and others. I’m talking about the person in the video hitting a horse.

She is a multi Olympic gold medalist. She knows what is right and wrong and can make her own training decisions.

CDJ has taken responsibility for her own actions, why won’t you?

 

[little_critter]

Have you ever wondered why she thought behaviour like that was acceptable?What are you hoping to achieve by calling out Charlotte and ignoring the rest?

I don’t think anyone is thinking of ignoring the rest. But this video has come to light and needs dealing with, we can’t not deal with it.
I sincerely hope that it sparks universal change and life for all abusers is made very difficult.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

Have you ever wondered why she thought behaviour like that was acceptable?What are you hoping to achieve by calling out Charlotte and ignoring the rest?

Perhaps you would care to enlighten us what the reason is that she thought her behaviour acceptable. According to her response she clearly states it was NOT acceptable?

I cannot see why you keep harping on about CD being targeted and ignoring the rest? Who is ignoring the rest? Where is your evidence on this thread that any one of us is ignoring the rest. Of course she will be the main topic on the thread as it was her shameful behaviour that has been exposed and she is extremely high profile so it is gaining the maximum attention and highlighting cruelty and welfare issues within the industry. A vast percentage of people commenting are very clearly and repeatedly saying that in their opinion and experience that this is not just behaviour common to her and is an industry wide problem.

What exactly is the point you are trying to make here?

 

[eahotson]

Perhaps you would care to enlighten us what the reason is that she thought her behaviour acceptable. According to her response she clearly states it was NOT acceptable?

I cannot see why you keep harping on about CD being targeted and ignoring the rest? Who is ignoring the rest? Where is your evidence on this thread that any one of us is ignoring the rest. Of course she will be the main topic on the thread as it was her shameful behaviour that has been exposed and she is extremely high profile so it is gaining the maximum attention and highlighting cruelty and welfare issues within the industry. A vast percentage of people commenting are very clearly and repeatedly saying that in their opinion and experience that this is not just behaviour common to her and is an industry wide problem.

What exactly is the point you are trying to make here?

You are ignoring the rest and I didn't say her behaviour was right at all.I said are you at all curious about why it happened?Perhaps we can put right the system and save future horses.Yes?

 

[eahotson]

I’m not ignoring the rest. I’ve been very critical of equestrian sports both on this thread, and others. I’m talking about the person in the video hitting a horse.

She is a multi Olympic gold medalist. She knows what is right and wrong and can make her own training decisions.

CDJ has taken responsibility for her own actions, why won’t you?

I wasn't hitting the horse actually

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

You are ignoring the rest and I didn't say her behaviour was right at all.I said are you at all curious about why it happened?Perhaps we can put right the system and save future horses.Yes?

I wasn't hitting the horse actually

So odd. I give up, it's like trying to converse with a 3 year old.

 

[eahotson]

So odd. I give up, it's like trying to converse with a 3 year old.

I agree

 

[SEL]

Have you ever wondered why she thought behaviour like that was acceptable?What are you hoping to achieve by calling out Charlotte and ignoring the rest?

She thought it was acceptable because it got results. Perhaps not with that one horse in one session but it must have got her results otherwise why do it??

Money talks. To maintain sponsors, coaching income etc etc etc she needed to be at the top and she went for shortcuts.

 

[EventingMum]

And there you have it in a nutshell, "selective" treatment over the exact same thing, animal abuse, two excuses right there just for starters, fear of a particular section of society, and the lack of education excuse, so as always let's target the easy option, lone white female, but then I suppose to be fair, and put things into balance, if she had been head of the Post office, she would be hanging onto £3 million bonus and a fat pension.

Definitely not excuses, mistreatment of any horse is wrong full stop. Ignorance is no defence but the cure for it is education which is not the case with CDJ who is educated but chose a non educated approach in this incident (and probably many other incidences). Fear of a particular section of society is not an equestrian problem, it is a problem for society as a whole and I will hold my hands up and say I don't know the answer. Appleby is being monitored by animal welfare organisations and action has been taken there for offenders recently which is a step in the right direction. However, Appleby participants are not governed by the FEI or BD so the options available for sanctions are obviously different.

CDJ wasn't targeted because she is a lone white women, I believe the reaction would be the same if she was any gender and any ethnicity at the top of the sport, the reason this has made the headlines is she well known for her previous success and we are now questioning her training methods that got her there. Her previous success is what has made this appear in the headlines and provoked such a reaction. The press would deem the substandard treatment of a horse at Appleby by Joe Bloggs less worthy of continued headlines than an Olympic medalist behaving similarly and so the CJD video has reached far more people and so provoked a bigger reaction from both the equestrian community and the general public. I'm sure most people would condemn both types of animal abuse equally.

 

[Cortez]

To ride the wings of your phenomenal success and popularity on the back of being an ethical and humane trainer means that your fall will be even further and more noticeable when it is revealed that you are no better than the rest of the nasty practitioners out there.

 

[scats]

You see this is where I have a problem. So many of you think Charlotte is one bad apple.She is not.She is in a barrel full of them.Lets all punish Charlotte then we can ignore the rest and it will be business as usual.Have you ever thought about what would make Charlotte think that that sort of behaviour is acceptable?And yes most of the others are hypocrites.

I genuinely don’t understand where you’ve got the notion that so many of us think CJD is one bad apple or that we want to ignore the rest. Apologies if I’ve missed something really obvious that shows this but I’m just not seeing what you are.

We know she isn’t one bad apple. We know there are multiple problems in the horse world. But this instance, this situation with this particular person, has come to the forefront now. The majority of us recognise that this isn’t just a CDJ issue, but a far wider-reaching problem.
However, as with anything, you tackle the things that you CAN change first. And this situation is hopefully bringing to light things that are going to change (and very much need to).

I’m wondering if my slightly-altered view of the world is skewing things, so feel free to tell me if it is. I’m not responding to your posts to be rude eahotson, I’m just really not seeing what you are.

 

[slimjim86]

That is not the impression I get from the last couple of days. Just the opposite, the majority are saying this is one of many instances within competitive equestrianism.

I think this is lots of people's worry, that the FEI etc will spin this as one bad apple, punish her and things will go on as before, instead of taking this as an opportunity to overhaul the whole elite level competition.

 

[eahotson]

She thought it was acceptable because it got results. Perhaps not with that one horse in one session but it must have got her results otherwise why do it??

Money talks. To maintain sponsors, coaching income etc etc etc she needed to be at the top and she went for shortcuts.

Precisely so what do we do to change the system

 

[eahotson]

We are just seeing it from different angles.At first I was pleased that this all went big so that BD and the Fei couldn't brush it under the carpet the way they normally do.Then I got uneasy because,much as I dislike what she did I know fine well that she is no worse than most of them .She is already paying a high price.She has been humiliated, lost her chance for a other Olympic medal,her team has been impacted and so have her many loyal fans.She has a 6 month ban which will probably be extended and she may loose horses.No one will watch her with Valegro and feel the same again.It will be tarnished now.She has been punished enough.
What we need to do now is try to alter the system including the treatment of children in sport including horse sport.We don't want this to happen again.

 

[anguscat]

Fear?That's a nice little dog you have there.Shame if anything happened to it.A vet I heard of complained at a local show.His tyres were slashed and dog dirt pushed through his letter box.

Partly because people feel their complaints will go nowhere. I’ve complained to officials at BE and BS both about youngsters unwarranted treatment of their ponies. I’m sure my complaints went into a black hole. Nice caring people often hate confrontation, they’re easily scared and so they’re easy to ignore.

 

[scats]

We are just seeing it from different angles.At first I was pleased that this all went big so that BD and the Fei couldn't brush it under the carpet the way they normally do.Then I got uneasy because,much as I dislike what she did I know fine well that she is no worse than most of them .She is already paying a high price.She has been humiliated, lost her chance for a other Olympic medal,her team has been impacted and so have her many loyal fans.She has a 6 month ban which will probably be extended and she may loose horses.No one will watch her with Valegro and feel the same again.It will be tarnished now.She has been punished enough.
What we need to do now is try to alter the system including the treatment of children in sport including horse sport.We don't want this to happen again.

I fully agree with this. I guess it’s only natural to want to talk about it though.

 

[Bellaboo18]

We are just seeing it from different angles.At first I was pleased that this all went big so that BD and the Fei couldn't brush it under the carpet the way they normally do.Then I got uneasy because,much as I dislike what she did I know fine well that she is no worse than most of them .She is already paying a high price.She has been humiliated, lost her chance for a other Olympic medal,her team has been impacted and so have her many loyal fans.She has a 6 month ban which will probably be extended and she may loose horses.No one will watch her with Valegro and feel the same again.It will be tarnished now.She has been punished enough.
What we need to do now is try to alter the system including the treatment of children in sport including horse sport.We don't want this to happen again.

To change the system. We have to all stand up and say this does not represent us. There is another way. We all as horse riders have a responsibility to stand against this type of behaviour.
The worst thing we can do in mind is, move on, let it go, enough is enough (regarding talking about it) which is what people are saying all over social media. The media are still making daily articles about it so we still need to be jumping up and down about it.

 

[eahotson]

I fully agree with this. I guess it’s only natural to want to talk about it though.

Fair enough.

 

[paisley]

I have worked at four top level Olympic winning yards (eventing/dressage and show jumping), where that sort of ‘training’ punishment/abuse has never and would never be used. I have also seen some awful incidents and although an industry issue, it is not as rotten as it’s being portrayed.
I would suggest competition yards should consider regular inspections, without prior notice and supply 1 weeks worth of unedited video footage of each horse working. It is effectively a business and should be subject to better regulations.

 

[Burnttoast]

To change the system. We have to all stand up and say this does not represent us. There is another way. We all as horse riders have a responsibility to stand against this type of behaviour.
The worst thing we can do in mind is, move on, let it go, enough is enough (regarding talking about it) which is what people are saying all over social media. The media are still making daily articles about it so we still need to be jumping up and down about it.

But that's the trouble. For all the people who are not represented by this behaviour there are people who are represented by it, and who don't want to, or see no reason to, modify their own approach to horses. You can't, I suspect, persuade them. What to do about them, as they are just as much a part of the horse world as 'we' are?

 

[Michen]

Out of interest, what do people think the FEI can actually DO to overhaul the sport? They can't be privvy to what goes on behind the scenes. Is it rewarding differently in the dressage tests themselves?

Genuine question. It's interesting that dressage seems to repeatedly have these abuse cases come to light, showjumping not so much and eventing- barely ever (other than mark todd, unless I'm mistaken)