CDJ withdrawn from paris

[cauda equina]

Eventing dressage is generally far more pleasant to watch than pure dressage

 

[sbloom]

Totally agree with what you are saying and I am wincing at some of the names who are criticising Charlotte. I think the problem is that the general public would not necessarily recognise the hauling in of the front end as abuse though, whereas someone repeatedly whacking a horse with a whip is obviously abuse. I have found elite dressage extremely uncomfortable to watch for many years and have often wondered how people can look at it and not see it for what it is.

100% agree, shame the equestrian world hasn't been policing it. Might not have come to this. Emperor's new clothes but anyone who points them out is ignored at best.

 

[equinerebel]

Eventing dressage is generally far more pleasant to watch than pure dressage

It really is. Shame one of the riders had blood in the horses mouth, but glad they were eliminated. Rules are rules and they’re there to protect the horse.

Seeing these eventing horses going looser and in simple snaffles is a start.

 

[SAS56]

Eventing dressage is generally far more pleasant to watch than pure dressage

And I think it has improved so much since Chris Bartle and Ian Woodhead got involved. Chris has such a way of encouraging softness - it shows.

 

[piebaldproblems]

Seeing these eventing horses going looser and in simple snaffles is a start.

Be nice to see less flashes with the snaffles though.

 

[equinerebel]

Be nice to see less flashes with the snaffles though.

Oh for sure. Some of the flashes are very tight.

 

[ThreeFurs]

I would assume the rider/owner are involved with the investigation and won’t want to be known publicly based on how much vitriol they are getting for not stopping the lesson. But I’m sure someone will out them eventually.

Yes, agreed, but in 48 pages of commentary, no one yet knows the name of this horse, or if he's ok. So that, my friends, is the nub of the issue. ie How is he going? does he have a new owner, how is he with whips [dodgy I would imagine]. Does he have someone who cares enough to turn him out with horse friends, take him for a hack? give him the right food? These are horse centred questions.
No one knows his name, his age, his parentage, how he got to be in this situation, what happened to him since the video, how he's doing now ...

 

[Cortez]

Eventing dressage is generally far more pleasant to watch than pure dressage

Oooooh, sorry, but no it’s not. There’s lots of tense, stiff, on-the-forehand horses, lots of bouncing riders, not really getting the whole idea. There are some very good ones too, of course.

 

[Esmae]

Eventing dressage is generally far more pleasant to watch than pure dressage

I see the point for that. I've never quite seen the point of pure dressage.

 

[JenJ]

I stumbled onto this after following a link that @sbloom posted on the thread about the nappy pony, but I think this is the best post I've seen on the whole CDJ issue.

I can't seem to get a link to the specific post, so this is the profile, https://www.facebook.com/em.macgillivray, and the post I mean starts with '(I’m interrupting my regularly scheduled programing about history, the outdoors generally, Lake Superior, Northland College'

 

[SAS56]

Oooooh, sorry, but no it’s not. There’s lots of tense, stiff, on-the-forehand horses, lots of bouncing riders, not really getting the whole idea. There are some very good ones too, of course.

Surely that is why the poster wrote "generally"

 

[tristars]

I am also thinking of that horse, that should be the focus of attention now, and all the others who endure such treatment, when they are probably doing their best at the time

 

[Cortez]

Surely that is why the poster generally

In my experience the better ones are less “general” than the poor examples.

 

[eahotson]

But it takes away from CDJ’s behaviour. Like “yes, what she did is bad BUT there’s worse.”

We know there’s worse, but we’re talking about CDJ. It is a little dismissive to compare bad actions to worse actions.

That said, if her peers are calling her out but are hypocrites, that’s different.

You see this is where I have a problem. So many of you think Charlotte is one bad apple.She is not.She is in a barrel full of them.Lets all punish Charlotte then we can ignore the rest and it will be business as usual.Have you ever thought about what would make Charlotte think that that sort of behaviour is acceptable?And yes most of the others are hypocrites.

 

[Chianti]

I have not read all the posts there’s far too many .

But my take is the abuse is horrifyingly and I could never condone it , but she cannot train her horses regularly this way as she we old never get the results and harmony she does with them , and her horses always look totally relaxed .

She is being punished and quite right too , I suspect the worst of any punishment is the fact that she has had to pull out of the olympics and only days before she was set to leave for Paris , this is something she has worked for for 4 years .

Let’s see what the FEI also do , suspect there is a lot more to follow .

I'm sorry but I don't think that her horses always look totally relaxed. I've seen video of her riding a horse with an obviously blue tongue. You can't be relaxed and have that going on.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

I stumbled onto this after following a link that @sbloom posted on the thread about the nappy pony, but I think this is the best post I've seen on the whole CDJ issue.

I can't seem to get a link to the specific post, so this is the profile, https://www.facebook.com/em.macgillivray, and the post I mean starts with '(I’m interrupting my regularly scheduled programing about history, the outdoors generally, Lake Superior, Northland College'

Thanks for posting, I agree it's a very good and interesting post, but this bit resonates with me most of all:

It appears one of the reasons CD turns to force is that she has no other way of teaching the rider how to improve the activity of the canter (so much for dressage as therapeutic and ultimately gymnastic schooling). The force is needed because of flaws in CD’s overall system

 

[eahotson]

Thanks for posting, I agree it's a very good and interesting post, but this bit resonates with me most of all:

It appears one of the reasons CD turns to force is that she has no other way of teaching the rider how to improve the activity of the canter (so much for dressage as therapeutic and ultimately gymnastic schooling). The force is needed because of flaws in CD’s overall system

And not just hers.

 

[Chianti]

And I think it has improved so much since Chris Bartle and Ian Woodhead got involved. Chris has such a way of encouraging softness - it shows.

Chris Bartle told someone I know that when he was competing it never occurred to him to worry whether or not his horse 'was on the bit'. It wasn't seen as important.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Eventing dressage is generally far more pleasant to watch than pure dressage

I agree.

Not just at the top levels, but as a dressage writer I’d much prefer to scribe at BE rather than for the same level of test at BD. The eventing tests might well be scrappier and less tidy than those in pure dressage, but in general the horses look to be more forward, less p1ssed off and generally happier.

We used to get shot down and accused of causing long term HHOers to leave the forum for saying this.

 

[Mrs. Jingle]

So many of you think Charlotte is one bad apple

That is not the impression I get from the last couple of days. Just the opposite, the majority are saying this is one of many instances within competitive equestrianism.

 

[Elno]

I'm sorry but I don't think that her horses always look totally relaxed. I've seen video of her riding a horse with an obviously blue tongue. You can't be relaxed and have that going on.

And also, the way she so calmly whipped the horse in the video like it was "just another day at the job", how she said "this is shit at hitting them hard" while double handling the whip, and how she, according to the whistleblower stated that "that is how we train our horses".

This was not her losing her temper or an one off incidence of very poor judgement. This is common practice for her, and most likely the majority of elite dressage riders.

I truly hope that instead of only going after her, ruining her life and forgetting about it, this can lead to a really hard and critical look on modern dressage and the training methods that goes on to make these poor horses to perform the way they do.

 

[Upthecreek]

I'm sorry but I don't think that her horses always look totally relaxed. I've seen video of her riding a horse with an obviously blue tongue. You can't be relaxed and have that going on.

Agree. I don’t see harmony and relaxation at all.

 

[cauda equina]

Oooooh, sorry, but no it’s not. There’s lots of tense, stiff, on-the-forehand horses, lots of bouncing riders, not really getting the whole idea. There are some very good ones too, of course.

Oh well, that's just mho.
There seems to be less tension overall and I don't enjoy watching the higher moves which seem so artificial, eg canter pirouette; I feel some of it has got a Dog walking on its hind legs vibe about it

 

[Upthecreek]

That is not the impression I get from the last couple of days. Just the opposite, the majority are saying this is one of many instances within competitive equestrianism.

I absolutely think most people know that this kind of behaviour is endemic at the top level of horse sports. The question is how do you bring about change in people that see it as acceptable if that’s what it takes to win and have been getting away with it for years?

Also, slightly off topic, but there are so many examples of ‘every day’ cruelty (harsh bits, over-tight nose bands, draw reins, long spurs and various other ‘gadgets’). How do you get people to see these things that are so commonly used as cruel?

 

[splashgirl45]

A good start would be selling bridles just with a cavesson noseband like they used to years ago. Nowadays it’s almost impossible to buy a new bridle that does have a flash noseband. I had to buy a cavesson noseband separately but years ago you had to buy the flash , or drop or grackle as the extra

 

[Burnttoast]

Oh well, that's just mho.
There seems to be less tension overall and I don't enjoy watching the higher moves which seem so artificial, eg canter pirouette; I feel some of it has got a Dog walking on its hind legs vibe about it

Done properly the higher level movements are a natural consequence of the horse's rebalancing. I guess the reason they look so artificial (and rubbish, often) in modern dressage is because that rebalancing hasn't been done.

 

[SAS56]

Chris Bartle told someone I know that when he was competing it never occurred to him to worry whether or not his horse 'was on the bit'. It wasn't seen as important.

His philisophy is that if the horse is working through from behind correctly the front end just falls into place. Strong bits, hard hands and winching in from the front just reverses that.

 

[Burnttoast]

I absolutely think most people know that this kind of behaviour is endemic at the top level of horse sports.

Tom McEwan seems unaware of this - strange that.... It is bl00dy irritating to see people being this disingenuous, flat-out lying in fact. Even if he himself is spotless in this regard, I'd be truly astonished to learn that he's managed to get to the very top of this sport and seen or heard so little that he can be 'shocked' by someone walloping a horse with a lunge whip.

Tom McEwen ‘shocked’ at teammate Dujardin’s horse abuse video scandal

British eventer Tom McEwen insisted the conduct of dressage star Charlotte Dujardin was not reflective of equestrian sports

www.theguardian.com

 

[SAS56]

I agree.

Not just at the top levels, but as a dressage writer I’d much prefer to scribe at BE rather than for the same level of test at BD. The eventing tests might well be scrappier and less tidy than those in pure dressage, but in general the horses look to be more forward, less p1ssed off and generally happier.

We used to get shot down and accused of causing long term HHOers to leave the forum for saying this.

Me too, done lots of writing at both pure and eventing dressage. Much prefer the eventing. Lost count of the times I have wirtten "looking forward to the Cross Country"

 

[equinerebel]

You see this is where I have a problem. So many of you think Charlotte is one bad apple.She is not.She is in a barrel full of them.Lets all punish Charlotte then we can ignore the rest and it will be business as usual.Have you ever thought about what would make Charlotte think that that sort of behaviour is acceptable?And yes most of the others are hypocrites.

I don’t think that at all. But why shouldn’t we call out CDJ for her individual actions?