SkylarkAscending
Well-Known Member
Of course it’s common - I go to a sports physio regularly myself - clearly I wasn’t obvious enough about the extent of treatment he was reportedly getting
CDJ withdrawn from paris
- Thread starter Zoeypxo
- Start date
Of course it’s common - I go to a sports physio regularly myself - clearly I wasn’t obvious enough about the extent of treatment he was reportedly getting
ester
Not slacking multitasking
no you weren't you just said he was a regular visitor, that's all the information you gave to respond to and that's what I responded to. 
SkylarkAscending
Well-Known Member
no you weren't you just said he was a regular visitor, that's all the information you gave to respond to and that's what I responded to.
There is honestly no need to take it so personally Ester, you certainly weren’t the only one to say it and since I hadn’t particularly noticed your reply my comment was not aimed at you
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
• Remove the requirement for a double bridle
• Mark down for BTV
• Mark down for tension and stress
• Regular filming and monitoring of warm ups
• Random yard inspections
Potentially also remove the very weird, unnatural movements like piaffe, passage and pirouettes.
• Mark down for BTV
• Mark down for tension and stress
• Regular filming and monitoring of warm ups
• Random yard inspections
Potentially also remove the very weird, unnatural movements like piaffe, passage and pirouettes.
palo1
Well-Known Member
I like your thinking! I think we should indeed demonstrate skill and a harmonious partnership by stripping back as you go up the levels, have minimum age requirements for higher level work and for some trophies also provide unedited footage of training, though that could easily be abused... Single bridles, no nosebands, no spurs, Unworkable possibly, unpopular, almost definitely!Lower age limits for horses through the levels might be a start. No Grand Prix before..... X years. Make it a big number to encourage keeping horses sound and taking good time. Judges looking for the actual Thing instead of being fooled by the appearance of the Thing.
Burn it all down and start again with different criteria?
No nosebands allowed. No bridles.I know, but genuinely. Do it in a headcoller and bareback. Breed horses of quality temperament and quiet movement with whom that would be fine. Maybe not the bareback but no stirrups perhaps? Strip it back as you go up levels rather than add on the pressure. People would just figure out ways to cheat/shortcut to the appearance of liberty and harmony still. I'm just random making silly suggestions.
I know. I don't care. I've lost faith. Rip it all up and try again please.
I honestly don't know if ethical horsemanship and competition are not just antithetical.
It's really hard to re-imagine dressage but it's probably what is needed.
PapaverFollis
Well-Known Member
Piaffe, passage and pirouette are only weird and unnatural when performed by hypermobile, shoulder-moving but actually stuck on the forehand warmbloods who wouldn't know what collection was if it smacked them on the arse with a lunge whip. And by "performed by" I mean "bullied out of by strong riders using forceful methods".
tda
Well-Known Member
So, is there a dummies guide to dressage, I.e why such movements evolved and why they are included.
I always feel that it would be nice to see dressage horses ridden in snaffle(other bits are available ) without a noseband, without spurs etc. The answer always seems to be you need all that stuff to fine tune the movements
I always feel that it would be nice to see dressage horses ridden in snaffle(other bits are available ) without a noseband, without spurs etc. The answer always seems to be you need all that stuff to fine tune the movements
FieldOrnaments
Well-Known Member
Piaffe and passage aren't unnatural
Think about stallions displaying to each other, new horses introduced to a herd. Pirouettes are easy to see too, watch any group playing and they happen a lot. Or something running at a fence and changing its mind cos its buddy is being taken in for a groom. Or any horse spinning from a feed bowl to chase another way etc
Think about stallions displaying to each other, new horses introduced to a herd. Pirouettes are easy to see too, watch any group playing and they happen a lot. Or something running at a fence and changing its mind cos its buddy is being taken in for a groom. Or any horse spinning from a feed bowl to chase another way etc
Rowreach
Adjusting my sails
I thought it was utterly bizarre and unintelligible and I may have just unfollowed him.
palo1
Well-Known Member
Yes, horses do all these, and levade, capriole etc naturally, if not often. I do wonder if the requirement for repetition after repetition in competition should be scrapped and perhaps other things worked in for the marks. I would also like to see some element of in hand work - sort of in a classical way, at the higher levels but that might be daft.
I'd quite like to see competitors enter the arena on foot, and get on board independently (with a block) and do more work on a long rein. I know beggar all about it really but some of those things or similar might reveal strengths and weaknesses in interesting ways.
criso
Coming over here & taking your jobs since 1900
My last tb was very good at capriole albeit unasked for. It's surprisingly easy to sit.
I was watching a horse in the field the other day passaging when showing off.
There were some comparison videos a while back on modern piaffe, passage and a more 'classical' execution. It made interesting viewing.
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
Yes, horses do them all naturally. But they typically don’t do it on a surface with a rider and tack. Which I appreciate is true for everything we ask of them, but they are advanced moves for a reason.
Perhaps it’s more the current over exaggeration in those movements that needs to be curtailed then, because they certainly don’t look natural atm.
Perhaps it’s more the current over exaggeration in those movements that needs to be curtailed then, because they certainly don’t look natural atm.
U.N.Owen
Well-Known Member
I don't even think the judge changes need to be that radical. Just stick to the scoring and rule criteria (as already laid out) and you will remove most of these issues.
Look at what constitutes a 5 or below for a piaffe and you will see most top name riders perform a piaffe like this but are scored 8s and 9s! Score them as the rule book says and you will soon sort it out.
Look at what constitutes a 5 or below for a piaffe and you will see most top name riders perform a piaffe like this but are scored 8s and 9s! Score them as the rule book says and you will soon sort it out.
FieldOrnaments
Well-Known Member
Ahhh never mind found her
Equi
Well-Known Member
These movements are regularly performed by “trick” riders with no tack using a breed that can do it. The problem for the modern dressage squad is that the breed of horses they are using cannot do these movements without tack. Could you imagine anyone trying to ride everdale barebake with no bridle
slimjim86
Well-Known Member
I wonder what score today's judges would give reiner klimkes olympic test?
honetpot
Well-Known Member
You have tack inspection before they go in, it would only mean a tick sheet and inspection when they go out, any areas of concern a photo, all done at the side of the collecting ring, with the sheet assesed by the judge before the final marks go up. Anything of concern, points deducted. If it affects placings they will stop it.
JenJ
Well-Known Member
I can't think of any instance where I've seen a horse piaffe naturally? Why would they do this?
ester
Not slacking multitasking
I thought they only checked on the way out for safety reasons?
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
Substitute working equitation for dressage …
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
Mine do it in the field when they get v excited and there is something barring their way… and my mare passages circles for fun
palo1
Well-Known Member
All of mine do it when excited - often in response to another horse and our 2 geldings do it when they are about to play rearing bitey-face games.
JenJ
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I get that they would passage for fun (and showing off!!! 
) , but the idea of them choosing to move without actually travelling forward seems odd.
) , but the idea of them choosing to move without actually travelling forward seems odd.tristars
Well-Known Member
Our trotter rescue cobby thing learned turn on the quarters recently now practices pirouettes whilst cantering instead of taking the long optional cantering a loop when he wants go the other other way, the fei are a hopeless lost cause, personally I wish governments and the law would get involved horses have suffered so much and these recent revelations need to become a cause for some sort of social reform, ie this is not acceptable within a civilized society in this day and age, the now regular scandals being exposed, ultimately the abusers will lose respect, be exposed as frauds, but how many more horses have to suffer, also I think riding a horse to warmup should be generally30 to 45 minutes then show the horse engaged for the duration of the test, that is long enough for a. competition or schooling session plus cooling down
JenJ
Well-Known Member
I suppose yeah, if there's something in the way preventing the forward movement. Ok, I'm just being stupid. Not for the first time today.
palo1
Well-Known Member
I think we have become used to seeing lots and lots of piaffe strides, naturally my horses will just do a few when playing and it is quite hard work for them. It does look a bit different to the dressage version...but yes, lowering the croup to take weight behind and moving on the spot/in a very collected way. Often with extra expression lolYeah, I get that they would passage for fun (and showing off!!!
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
Piaffe and half steps done properly are actually great core work for a horse… done in hand it can be a physio exercise that can help keep a horse sound
Upthecreek
Well-Known Member
Whilst seeing horses forced into a frame, wide eyed and frothing at the mouth is seen as normal, I’m not sure that changes to rules and judging will do much. I think there is so much wrong with elite dressage that you’d almost need to turn it into something completely different to put it right.
If it was up to me I would remove the dancing movements; I don’t personally want to see any animals made to dance.
I would reward harmony, relaxation, connection between horse and rider and accuracy. Deductions for tension and anxiety. Elimination for blue tongues and horses being injured by tack or equipment. No double bridles, no tight nose bands.
I would want to see true horsemanship and a genuine partnership between horse and rider.
If it was up to me I would remove the dancing movements; I don’t personally want to see any animals made to dance.
I would reward harmony, relaxation, connection between horse and rider and accuracy. Deductions for tension and anxiety. Elimination for blue tongues and horses being injured by tack or equipment. No double bridles, no tight nose bands.
I would want to see true horsemanship and a genuine partnership between horse and rider.
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
Said what I meant to say much better than I did!
