Covid/ isolation/ Livery

[southerncomfort]

We need to remember that the published covid 'death rate' is of people who have tested positive in the previous 28 days. There are no stats for the numbers of people who have died solely due to covid and with no underlying health conditions. Indeed, I know people who have passed away during the pandemic but they were elderly, frail, and with underlying health conditions. A friend's mother was one, and she had to argue about the cause of death which was wrongly stated on the death cert as covid.

But we also need to remember that hospitalisations are creeping up again and the NHS is already under pressure.

Deaths are not the only consideration here.

I honestly don't see that testing if you have symptoms and keeping away from others is such a big deal.

 

[Goldenstar]

We need to remember that the published covid 'death rate' is of people who have tested positive in the previous 28 days. There are no stats for the numbers of people who have died solely due to covid and with no underlying health conditions. Indeed, I know people who have passed away during the pandemic but they were elderly, frail, and with underlying health conditions. A friend's mother was one, and she had to argue about the cause of death which was wrongly stated on the death cert as covid.

Dying in hospital of Covid is a lonely miserable death we should not ever forget it’s the opposite of a good death.

 

[ester]

And winter flu killed thousands in the years before covid yet there is no hysteria over that.

We are well overdue a pandemic flu, if that had arrived instead it is likely that the reaction would have been just the same as it is for covid.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

An elderly neighbour was the passenger in a car crash recently. There was no ambulance available to take her and the driver to hospital. Her son in law took them.

This is just insane. The current pressure on hospitals and ambulances is just too high already. People must take this seriously.

 

[skinnydipper]

We need to remember that the published covid 'death rate' is of people who have tested positive in the previous 28 days. There are no stats for the numbers of people who have died solely due to covid and with no underlying health conditions. Indeed, I know people who have passed away during the pandemic but they were elderly, frail, and with underlying health conditions. A friend's mother was one, and she had to argue about the cause of death which was wrongly stated on the death cert as covid.

People can live long, happy and productive lives with pre existing health conditions. Covid kills them.

 

[Goldenstar]

Some of you may remember that my father died of Covid .
The truth of it from my point of view is that his death would have been a slow one caused by the dementia that was caused by an accident .
So in one way Covid did save him a lot of suffering especially because of the suffering and deterioration action the lack of visiting caused him .
If he had not ended up in hospital I would be much more at peace about what happened ,the plan was to keep him at the home with palliative care but he had fever and got up and forgot he needed his frame and fell and broke his hip .
That’s why he ended up in hospital and that’s was a horrible way to go ,alone ,I still can’t think about it now .

 

[Apizz2019]

Some of you may remember that my father died of Covid .
The truth of it from my point of view is that his death would have been a slow one caused by the dementia that was caused by an accident .
So in one way Covid did save him a lot of suffering especially because of the suffering and deterioration action the lack of visiting caused him .
If he had not ended up in hospital I would be much more at peace about what happened ,the plan was to keep him at the home with palliative care but he had fever and got up and forgot he needed his frame and fell and broke his hip .
That’s why he ended up in hospital and that’s was a horrible way to go ,alone ,I still can’t think about it now .

I wish there were more than a like button. I don't like this but wanted to acknowledge your comment.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

 

[Apizz2019]

An elderly neighbour was the passenger in a car crash recently. There was no ambulance available to take her and the driver to hospital. Her son in law took them.

This is just insane. The current pressure on hospitals and ambulances is just too high already. People must take this seriously.

My son had an asthma attack pre-Omricon, when things were supposedly more settled. Its a regular thing sadly for my poor little man. He was blue, it was awful to see him in such a state.

We had to take him at breakneck speeds to the nearest A&E as no ambulance was available. Normally, they'd send a paramedic in a car to stabilise him and then he'd be whisked off in a regular ambulance, or if stable enough, we'd take him.

Once there, he was treated promptly, I can't fault the care he received, but it's scary times when in a life or death situation and no emergency medical help is available.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

My son had an asthma attack pre-Omricon, when things were supposedly more settled. Its a regular thing sadly for my poor little man. He was blue, it was awful to see him in such a state.

We had to take him at breakneck speeds to the nearest A&E as no ambulance was available. Normally, they'd send a paramedic in a car to stabilise him and then he'd be whisked off in a regular ambulance, or if stable enough, we'd take him.

Once there, he was treated promptly, I can't fault the care he received, but it's scary times when in a life or death situation and no emergency medical help is available.

It's so frightening. I'm so glad that he was ok.

 

[SEL]

People can live long, happy and productive lives with pre existing health conditions. Covid kills them.

Precisely. My neighbour had a stroke in his 40s which left him with a dodgy left lung. Covid put him in an induced coma on a ventilator for nearly 2 months and he was lucky to pull through. The damage it did has massively reduced his life expectancy.

 

[Apizz2019]

It's so frightening. I'm so glad that he was ok.

Thank you

 

[maisie06]

An elderly neighbour was the passenger in a car crash recently. There was no ambulance available to take her and the driver to hospital. Her son in law took them.

This is just insane. The current pressure on hospitals and ambulances is just too high already. People must take this seriously.

But the pressure on the NHS has been creeping up for years, the system was broken anyway long before Covid. I'm positive covid will be used a the final excuse to lead us into the age of private health care....what needs doing is getting rid of middle managment and red tape and keeping pen pushers in useless jobs under NHS trust banners

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

But the pressure on the NHS has been creeping up for years, the system was broken anyway long before Covid. I'm positive covid will be used a the final excuse to lead us into the age of private health care....what needs doing is getting rid of middle managment and red tape and keeping pen pushers in useless jobs under NHS trust banners

As a direct result of Conservative-led gvts and their policies.
As we have seen throughout the pandemic, the Tories are more interested in making money for themselves and their friends (please note not for their voters) than in public health. Surely now everyone, no matter how much they like to keep their head inthe sand, is aware of where Tory priorites lie. I just hoe that the elctorate remembers the behaviour of the Tory Party when it comes tothe next election. And whether we like it or not, managers are needed in the NHS, so that clinicians can get on with their specialisms, without having to 'manage'.

 

[lannerch]

The nhs faired no better under labour either, the nhs will never have enough money every year it costs more and more , new expensive treatments and a massive rise in the elderly population. Life is never that simple .

covid is helping private healthcare as it has Freed up the surgeons to be able to do private operations as they are no longer able to do the usual volume of nhs operations due to the fact the nhs beds are taken up with covid patients.

 

[AmyMay]

Dying in hospital of Covid is a lonely miserable death we should not ever forget it’s the opposite of a good death.

Dying in hospital without Covid is a lonely miserable death currently too ?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

The nhs faired no better under labour either, the nhs will never have enough money every year it costs more and more , new expensive treatments and a massive rise in the elderly population. Life is never that simple .

covid is helping private healthcare as it has Freed up the surgeons to be able to do private operations as they are no longer able to do the usual volume of nhs operations due to the fact the nhs beds are taken up with covid patients.

The NHS did fare better under the last Labour gvt, as did all the public services. Of course more money could always be spent and the usual merry-go-round of changing policies simply for the sake of change also happened. This gvt and its coalition predecessor closed beds, downgraded hospitals and lost staff so that we were in a bad place going into the pandemic.

 

[lannerch]

The NHS did fare better under the last Labour gvt, as did all the public services. Of course more money could always be spent and the usual merry-go-round of changing policies simply for the sake of change also happened. This gvt and its coalition predecessor closed beds, downgraded hospitals and lost staff so that we were in a bad place going into the pandemic.

I’m sorry no it didn’t you have a short memory. The nhs was in no better a position under labour . I was there working in it then and now, were you?
And the pandemics problem is generally not an actual shortage of beds or hospitals but an actual shortage of well staff not isolating able to man those beds.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I’m sorry no it didn’t you have a short memory. The nhs was in no better a position under labour . I was there working in it then and now, were you?
And the pandemics problem is generally not an actual shortage of beds or hospitals but an actual shortage of well staff not isolating able to man those beds.

I don't think it is my memory which is short.

This is the difference that Labour made to the NHS from 1997 to 2007

1997 2007
NHS budget £34Bn £92Bn
Waiting list 1,150,000 720,00
total staff number 1,030,000 1,330,000
Number of qualified nurses & midwives 320,000 398,000
Number of health care assistants 138,000 225,000
Number of doctors in NHS102,000 127,000
Number of managers21,000 38,000
Newly qualified nurse salary£12,385 £19,166

(Source Dept of Health)


Not so easy to read, unfortunately, as it was in a table which will not copy correctly, however the figures are correct.


As has been said many times on this forum, there were thousands of unfilled posts in the NHS before Covid struck.

The number of staff vacancies generally decreased in the recorded time period (despite seasonal fluctuations). In June 2018, there were roughly 110 thousand unfilled posts among NHS providers, this number dropped to around 94 thousand by June 2021.
• NHS England workforce vacancies by staff group 2021/22 | Statista

 

[AmyMay]

The NHS did fare better under the last Labour gvt, as did all the public services. Of course more money could always be spent and the usual merry-go-round of changing policies simply for the sake of change also happened. This gvt and its coalition predecessor closed beds, downgraded hospitals and lost staff so that we were in a bad place going into the pandemic.

It most certainly didn’t. It has been failed by Labour and conservative governments alike. No one Government has served the NHS well for many, many years.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

It most certainly didn’t. It has been failed by Labour and conservative governments alike. No one Government has served the NHS well for many, many years.

I think you need to actually research the subject. Neither party has served the NHS perfectly but the figures speak for themselves.

 

[Goldenstar]

No government needs to serve the NHS .
They need to provide us the people who pay for our socialised healthcare a good standard of care free at the point of use .

 

[LadyGascoyne]

I don't think it is my memory which is short.

This is the difference that Labour made to the NHS from 1997 to 2007

1997 2007
NHS budget £34Bn £92Bn
Waiting list 1,150,000 720,00
total staff number 1,030,000 1,330,000
Number of qualified nurses & midwives 320,000 398,000
Number of health care assistants 138,000 225,000
Number of doctors in NHS102,000 127,000
Number of managers21,000 38,000
Newly qualified nurse salary£12,385 £19,166

(Source Dept of Health)


Not so easy to read, unfortunately, as it was in a table which will not copy correctly, however the figures are correct.


As has been said many times on this forum, there were thousands of unfilled posts in the NHS before Covid struck.

The number of staff vacancies generally decreased in the recorded time period (despite seasonal fluctuations). In June 2018, there were roughly 110 thousand unfilled posts among NHS providers, this number dropped to around 94 thousand by June 2021.
• NHS England workforce vacancies by staff group 2021/22 | Statista

‘Unfilled posts’ is not a good metric to use for comparison.

Vacancies can be created for many reasons, and in many cases we might have substantive vacancies that are filled by interim or temp staff because those staff prefer not to be substantively employed in the NHS (pay is much higher on agency / interim/ consultancy).

It does not mean that there are those many people “missing” from hospitals.

 

[Chianti]

The nhs faired no better under labour either, the nhs will never have enough money every year it costs more and more , new expensive treatments and a massive rise in the elderly population. Life is never that simple .

covid is helping private healthcare as it has Freed up the surgeons to be able to do private operations as they are no longer able to do the usual volume of nhs operations due to the fact the nhs beds are taken up with covid patients.

Labour increased spending on the NHS to a much higher level- bring it much closer to levels in Europe. Tories have cut 17,000 beds in the last decade. If they restored those it might help.

 

[lannerch]

O

Labour increased spending on the NHS to a much higher level- bring it much closer to levels in Europe. Tories have cut 17,000 beds in the last decade. If they restored those it might help.

when?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

‘Unfilled posts’ is not a good metric to use for comparison.

Vacancies can be created for many reasons, and in many cases we might have substantive vacancies that are filled by interim or temp staff because those staff prefer not to be substantively employed in the NHS (pay is much higher on agency / interim/ consultancy).

It does not mean that there are those many people “missing” from hospitals.

Filling posts with agency staff is very poor value for money, does not aid consistency and impedes team work. I am afraid that the number of vacancies currently far exceeds the number of agency and temp staff available to work, according to the NHS managers that I speak to regularly.

 

[milliepops]

certainly struggle to get enough agency to fill the gaps we have. recruitment continues apace but the demand for agency staff across the country is HUGE. and as mentioned it's not always appropriate if you need more specialised skills.

 

[HashRouge]

O

when? View attachment 85274

You may well be right, I don't know. But that chart doesn't prove your point - Labour were only in power until May 2010. Showing me a graph from 2008 to present says very little about what Labour did or didn't do, because I have no idea what NHS funding was like before Labour took power or how much they increased it during their time in office. I love data as much as the next person, but there's no point using it badly

 

[nagblagger]

Although it looks that there has been an increase in funding for the NHS 2020/2021 this is mainly due to Covid. The spending in the NHS has increased, many of the hospitals are still using areas that would only have beds in a 'major incident' - these areas have remained open for almost 2 years. thus needing more staff long-term, above and beyond the 'normal template' for that ward/dept. As we lost staff to brexit a lot of recently recruited nurses have come from overseas, which we pay for. I feel the figures do not accurately reflect investment in the NHS accurately enough to make true comparisons.

However have we gone off from the original thread? I looked after my friends horse when she had covid - that's what friends do (and it was easy as it lives out). she would do the same for me, there are only 2 of us at the yard.

 

[Lyle]

This thread

It's unfortunate that there is a large chunk of society rapidly devolving into a group more concerned about their own selfish rights, and completely ignoring their social responsibilities. Don't want to uphold your responsibilities? Go somewhere else, don't have any access to any form of benefit that society affords you. Why should those of us doing the responsible thing hold others up so they can swan around doing what ever you feel like, like a spoilt child?

 

[LittleRolo]

Some of you may remember that my father died of Covid .
The truth of it from my point of view is that his death would have been a slow one caused by the dementia that was caused by an accident .
So in one way Covid did save him a lot of suffering especially because of the suffering and deterioration action the lack of visiting caused him .
If he had not ended up in hospital I would be much more at peace about what happened ,the plan was to keep him at the home with palliative care but he had fever and got up and forgot he needed his frame and fell and broke his hip .
That’s why he ended up in hospital and that’s was a horrible way to go ,alone ,I still can’t think about it now .

My dad caught covid in a care home, which the hospital put him in to make space for covid patients! He was in hospital because he fell and broke his pelvis. Whilst he was meant to be recovering in hospital he was moved 7 times. All of this left him completely disabled and from the day he fell to the day he died was 14 months. He never walked or even stood independently all that time. We will be persuing all that was done badly and hopefully something will be done so no one else will ever be treated so badly again