Debate for the rights and wrongs of racing

[Parrotperson]

it needs to stop now

also a quick decision about pts of injured horses would never have anything to do with the fact they need to clear the course for the next race, would it?

some of those jockeys are appalling riders, and the likes of gordon elliot will bring the castle tumbling down in the end

to send out the best and fittest horses in races and 4 die is proof enough and all taking part from grooms to vets should examine their part in enabling this barbarism to continue

Absolutely no. They will wave the field round a fence if they're treating horse or jockey. And the next race is delayed (or even cancelled as happened last week when an amateur rider was badly injured and they carted him off to hospital in an air ambulance so they cancelled the next race) until the situation has been resolved. I've seen delays of over an hour if the vets are treating a horse. They tell the stewards what to do. the stewards don't say "sorry shoot it we need to carry on racing".

 

[tristar]

Absolutely no. They will wave the field round a fence if they're treating horse or jockey. And the next race is delayed (or even cancelled as happened last week when an amateur rider was badly injured and they carted him off to hospital in an air ambulance so they cancelled the next race) until the situation has been resolved. I've seen delays of over an hour if the vets are treating a horse. They tell the stewards what to do. the stewards don't say "sorry shoot it we need to carry on racing".

er yes, we know that, and of course they live like royalty, don`t they?

 

[Parrotperson]

er yes, we know that, and of course they live like royalty, don`t they?

why did you ask then? And most yards do treat them like royalty. There's a few outliers of course as in any industry.

Given the tone of your posts you're not here for a reasoned discussion. Which is up to you. So I too am allowed an opinion. But maybe get some experience of racing yards before you condemn them all and all who work in them. It might surprise you.

And I suspect there is just as much (if not more cruelty) in private yards around the country. But that's ok cos they're pets.

I've been around (and worked with) horses for more than 50 years and seen some appalling cruelty. None of which happened on a professional yard of any kind bar one, a showjumping yard. I had to call it out and I lost my job.

 

[sakura]

Cruelty existing in other branches of the equestrian world is absolutely true. But that doesn't negate the blatant cruelty that goes on in racing - which is the sport we're currently discussing.

 

[Gallop_Away]

er yes, we know that, and of course they live like royalty, don`t they?

Why ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer? The very idea that they would just shoot the horse to avoid delays to the next race is quite frankly ridiculous ?

 

[tristar]

why did you ask then? And most yards do treat them like royalty. There's a few outliers of course as in any industry.

Given the tone of your posts you're not here for a reasoned discussion. Which is up to you. So I too am allowed an opinion. But maybe get some experience of racing yards before you condemn them all and all who work in them. It might surprise you.

And I suspect there is just as much (if not more cruelty) in private yards around the country. But that's ok cos they're pets.

I've been around (and worked with) horses for more than 50 years and seen some appalling cruelty. None of which happened on a professional yard of any kind bar one, a showjumping yard. I had to call it out and I lost my job.

the tone of my posts is dictated by my feelings about the four dead horses

 

[tristar]

Why ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer? The very idea that they would just shoot the horse to avoid delays to the next race is quite frankly ridiculous ?

thats just one answer, thank you

i did not suggest that they did

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I've just been reading the Hartpury thread out of curiosity. I'd far rather be a racehorse than a school horse there! It sounds horrific!

 

[Fred66]

the tone of my posts is dictated by my feelings about the four dead horses

Did you have personal knowledge of these horses, do you know whether they were cruelly treated (either within their training environment or after their injury) ?
Unless you can answer yes to this I am unsure how you can have an informed opinion about these 4 horses.
Horses die every single day and I can’t understand how anyone can have a depth of feeling regarding all of them. Yes if it’s known to you and yes if you are made aware of it being ill treated otherwise I can understand a sadness regarding its demise but not any heart wrenching sensation of loss

 

[tristar]

Did you have personal knowledge of these horses, do you know whether they were cruelly treated (either within their training environment or after their injury) ?
Unless you can answer yes to this I am unsure how you can have an informed opinion about these 4 horses.
Horses die every single day and I can’t understand how anyone can have a depth of feeling regarding all of them. Yes if it’s known to you and yes if you are made aware of it being ill treated otherwise I can understand a sadness regarding its demise but not any heart wrenching sensation of loss

well i suppose i could say, if they had not been in that race they would be alive today

i do feel sadness, to see a horse fit and healthy then 10 minutes later its dead, because the balance of risk it was exposed to is too great , i think its blxxdy tragic actually

 

[bonny]

well i suppose i could say, if they had not been in that race they would be alive today

i do feel sadness, to see a horse fit and healthy then 10 minutes later its dead, because the balance of risk it was exposed to is too great , i think its blxxdy tragic actually

Do you watch the racing ?

 

[tristar]

Do you watch the racing ?

at one time i watched it all the time, not any more, its too gladiatorial, too saturday afternoon in the coliseum, i would hope we could move on and do something with horses less dangerous

i do watch the flat though sometimes

 

[paddi22]

My main issue is the young horses being broken and worked too early. My full tb foal shared a field with other foals that are in a racing yard. This is a photo of my lad at two. By that stage the foals he had grown up with were already gone from field, in training, being pumped with feed and in work. I look at that picture of him and he's SUCH a baby, still developing and wonky. and I can't imagine how anyone would think he was ready for training.

 

[tristar]

My main issue is the young horses being broken and worked too early. My full tb foal shared a field with other foals that are in a racing yard. This is a photo of my lad at two. By that stage the foals he had grown up with were already gone from field, in training, being pumped with feed and in work. I look at that picture of him and he's SUCH a baby, still developing and wonky. and I can't imagine how anyone would think he was ready for training.

he could have been a yearling from that photo

 

[bonny]

My main issue is the young horses being broken and worked too early. My full tb foal shared a field with other foals that are in a racing yard. This is a photo of my lad at two. By that stage the foals he had grown up with were already gone from field, in training, being pumped with feed and in work. I look at that picture of him and he's SUCH a baby, still developing and wonky. and I can't imagine how anyone would think he was ready for training.

He wasn’t ready for training judging by that photo

 

[paddi22]

I was just sharing the field, so he wasn't going into racing. but the other 2 year olds looked the same as him, and they all went off into training.

 

[Clodagh]

Racing is like hunting, no one can accept that people gave different views on it.

 

[j1ffy]

My main issue is the young horses being broken and worked too early. My full tb foal shared a field with other foals that are in a racing yard. This is a photo of my lad at two. By that stage the foals he had grown up with were already gone from field, in training, being pumped with feed and in work. I look at that picture of him and he's SUCH a baby, still developing and wonky. and I can't imagine how anyone would think he was ready for training.

I feel the same. Chilli was also at a pre-breaking yard as a youngster and it wasn't pleasant seeing yearlings / rising 2yos being lunged and under saddle. A couple of them looked fairly mature but some looked just like your youngster, I'd scurry past the school where they were being backed as I couldn't bear to watch (I'm not criticising the owners of the yard, they did a very good job and it's a lovely place - my issue is with the flat racing industry strongly encouraging such young colts and fillies to be ridden).

I think there are more issues with flat racing than NH - the age that horses are started, the 'big business' approach that results in such high wastage, decisions driven by potentially huge amounts of money. While there are big owners and trainers in NH, in general it feels less business-like and closer to other horse sports in terms of horse age and career length. I rarely watch flat racing these days as it doesn't feel as sporting.

 

[Flame_]

Racing is like hunting, no one can accept that people gave different views on it.

And like hunting it's mainly people who've never participated, who never will participate in it and who won't be affected or miss it if it went who moan about it.

When people who have been on the yards, taken part in the sports and even made money from them call out faults then these should be acted upon, when bitter saddos see an opportunity to "stick it to the rich" by making an issue of something, it should be seen for what it is.

I'm not saying this describes everyone against hunting and racing, far from it, but it certainly is a thing they are both up against.

 

[sakura]

I can only speak for myself, but I am against both hunting and racing because I view them as harmful to the animals involved. I've never raced or hunted - and that is out of choice. My opinions on them both are still valid.

 

[Smoky 2022]

I think if the racing industry wants a future and not be banned. I think they are going to need to change.

1. Overbreeding the average stud products 300 foals a year that’s way to much horses and not enough homes after they retire.

2. Broken to young a lot of racehorse are broken when they are yearlings and raced as 2 years old.

3. Jump racing should be made easier

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

I think if the racing industry wants a future and not be banned. I think they are going to need to change.

1. Overbreeding the average stud products 300 foals a year that’s way to much horses and not enough homes after they retire.

2. Broken to young a lot of racehorse are broken when they are yearlings and raced as 2 years old.

3. Jump racing should be made easier

How would you make jump racing easier? Just out of curiosity?

BTW I agree with your other 2 points.

 

[Fred66]

My main issue is the young horses being broken and worked too early. My full tb foal shared a field with other foals that are in a racing yard. This is a photo of my lad at two. By that stage the foals he had grown up with were already gone from field, in training, being pumped with feed and in work. I look at that picture of him and he's SUCH a baby, still developing and wonky. and I can't imagine how anyone would think he was ready for training.

You see I have similar views regarding guide dogs, they have minimal time to just be dogs but equally they are well cared for and they do a worthwhile job (before anyone jumps on me I am in no way comparing the roles) but they have intense training from an early age and it’s not until they retire that they have opportunity to just be a dog.
However I do accept that whilst it might not be my idea of what a dog should be it is just my opinion and the dog itself is probably pretty content with its lot.

 

[Fred66]

..

 

[cold_feet]

I think if the racing industry wants a future and not be banned. I think they are going to need to change.

1. Overbreeding the average stud products 300 foals a year that’s way to much horses and not enough homes after they retire.

2. Broken to young a lot of racehorse are broken when they are yearlings and raced as 2 years old.

3. Jump racing should be made easier

Racing will never be banned while the big betting companies hold such power.

 

[Sandstone1]

You see I have similar views regarding guide dogs, they have minimal time to just be dogs but equally they are well cared for and they do a worthwhile job (before anyone jumps on me I am in no way comparing the roles) but they have intense training from an early age and it’s not until they retire that they have opportunity to just be a dog.
However I do accept that whilst it might not be my idea of what a dog should be it is just my opinion and the dog itself is probably pretty content with its lot.

Thats really not true. Most guide dogs do have the chance to be dogs. They get free ran regularly and if the owner can not do that there are volunteers who do. When not in harness they are just dogs.

 

[Orangehorse]

That is all human choice, not the horses. The only "job" any horse actually has is to be a horse. Anything else is what we have decided their purpose to be. Sure, many seem to enjoy the work they're asked to do, but that doesn't remove the moral questions behind the industry.

This then becomes a much bigger conversation on the ethics of using animals for financial gain and entertainment, but in this case we're talking about racing.

Well exactly, we could spend all day discussing the use of horses in any situation and in the end we would reach the conclusion that it probably isn't right to use them for anything and they would all be better off living a natural life out on the plains. All use of horses is exploitation.

 

[PipsqueakXy22]

HK's racing industry is interesting. As Elf said, all the horses are imported either by owners / trainers or by the Hong Kong Jockey Club (HKJC) and not just from Australia - I had two loan horses during my time there, one was from South Africa and one from Ireland. When racing they are stabled near the racecourse at Sha Tin and do all their training there...and always in the same direction so they're all pretty wonky when they retire. If they are racing at Happy Valley on HK island itself they are trucked in but only stay for a short time as stables are limited so the horses for the early races are taken over, then go home and horses for the later races are taken. There are 'spelling' facilities for horses that are rehabbing injuries or just need a break.

On retirement from racing they all go to an assessment facility and I believe they become property of the HKJC. They spend time being assessed physically and for temperament and are then re-homed appropriately. Some go to rehoming centres abroad, I know of a place in NZ that rehomes them, some go to be police horses (yes, really!) and a lot go to equestrian centres in mainland China or HK. If they are not suitable to be riding horses they are PTS. All the riding schools in HK have ex-racehorses hence me having a couple on loan. Only a couple of RS have any turnout facilities, horses at my yard were turned out in an arena a few times a week but otherwise were stabled.

HKJC runs all the betting in HK as well as the racing itself. They're a not-for-profit organisation so all surplus is ploughed into charitable causes around HK - you see their emblem all over the place. An interesting fact is that they estimate that income tax would need to be 7% higher in HK if racing stopped!

Very interesting! I heard about the tax thing too it’s crazy to think about. I actually lived in Hong Kong for a couple years and remembered riding the racehorses at the riding school (Lo Wu saddle club if you know it) Just goes to show what a versatile breed they can be. I know majority of racehorses may not be suitable for a riding school but if only they had a similar rehabilitation programme in the uk it would maybe give some of the horses a new job. Very sad about the ones that get put to sleep tho, but I suppose it’s kinder than being passed about like a few of them do here. I don’t know numbers/ statistics but by logic I guess it’s cheaper to just have them pts then fly them back to Aus/ NZ just to potentially rehome. I have heard they do take very good care of their horses and have amazing facilities, but it’s just the fact they don’t get turned out (which to me is a fundamental need of a horse) is sad, and the horses which are deemed unsuitable to be ridden never experience that I guess.

 

[Clodagh]

And like hunting it's mainly people who've never participated, who never will participate in it and who won't be affected or miss it if it went who moan about it.

When people who have been on the yards, taken part in the sports and even made money from them call out faults then these should be acted upon, when bitter saddos see an opportunity to "stick it to the rich" by making an issue of something, it should be seen for what it is.

I'm not saying this describes everyone against hunting and racing, far from it, but it certainly is a thing they are both up against.

I support racing and hunted all my life, pre ban.
I have never been involved in bull fighting but I feel entitled to have a negative opinion of it.
It’s rubbish that if you haven’t done something you can’t have an opinion about it. I haven’t run the country but I have an opinion on our PM.

 

[Fred66]

I support racing and hunted all my life, pre ban.
I have never been involved in bull fighting but I feel entitled to have a negative opinion of it.
It’s rubbish that if you haven’t done something you can’t have an opinion about it. I haven’t run the country but I have an opinion on our PM.

Anyone is entitled to an opinion on anything, however sometimes the facts don’t support the opinion. This could make the opinion wrong or it could just be that the opinion is based upon emotions not facts .
an example of the former would be having the opinion that the world is flat, an example of the latter would be the discussion we are having now.