AengusOg
Well-Known Member
As long as he doesn't recognise himself if he reads this thread.
That's been the message all along.
Disgusted at behaviour of the hunt
- Thread starter Yougetwhatyoudeserve
- Start date
As long as he doesn't recognise himself if he reads this thread.
Yougetwhatyoudeserve
Member
As long as he doesn't recognise himself if he reads this thread.
.
Good point
But hopefully he would understand when I first posted yesterday I was seeing red and raging! If I'd seen him in person yesterday I would have said exactly what I posted on here whilst jumping up and down and snarling. Not a pretty sight Alls well that ends well I hope
Fiagai
Well-Known Member
Santa_paws
I do not "enjoy" fights but I do strongly dislike rabble rousing...
The problem with common sense is that that I have found that it isn't really that common. Common sense here would normally suggest that no one without reason would make allegations that they wont act on
If you have reason to believe, one never mind 3 different hunts are breaking the law and believe you have proof of such - then your moral stand should dictate that you report such matters to the relevant bodies
As for the OP who posted in relation to her own complaint, how did that warrent you flinging accusations against others unconnected with this situation?
It is neither right nor proper not to make such serious unproven criminal allegations against other hunts on an open forum. You may believe that such is the case however they are simply defamatory statements without proof. The stuff of such which is regularly dredged up by faceless anti groups. You are simply adding fuel to their already ample (but largely spurious) arsenal.
I am not saying their have not been instances where the law may have been broken but that is not a reason to make unfounded allegations. You do no one including your self any favours with such behaviour
Rereading the posts I found that the OP clearly came out as a genuine poster from her attidude and willingness to answer questions. These posts and those in support of her appear to be largely in the majority in my opinion and stand on their own merit
I do not "enjoy" fights but I do strongly dislike rabble rousing...
The problem with common sense is that that I have found that it isn't really that common. Common sense here would normally suggest that no one without reason would make allegations that they wont act on
If you have reason to believe, one never mind 3 different hunts are breaking the law and believe you have proof of such - then your moral stand should dictate that you report such matters to the relevant bodies
As for the OP who posted in relation to her own complaint, how did that warrent you flinging accusations against others unconnected with this situation?
It is neither right nor proper not to make such serious unproven criminal allegations against other hunts on an open forum. You may believe that such is the case however they are simply defamatory statements without proof. The stuff of such which is regularly dredged up by faceless anti groups. You are simply adding fuel to their already ample (but largely spurious) arsenal.
I am not saying their have not been instances where the law may have been broken but that is not a reason to make unfounded allegations. You do no one including your self any favours with such behaviour
Rereading the posts I found that the OP clearly came out as a genuine poster from her attidude and willingness to answer questions. These posts and those in support of her appear to be largely in the majority in my opinion and stand on their own merit
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cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Well that was the right result OP, good news
Lizzie66
Well-Known Member
Good point
Alls well that ends well I hope
Glad you're pleased with the outcome and hope that your horses are non the worse for wear.
My apologies for suggesting you may have been trolling.
Merry Christmas and have a Happy New Year.
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
Good point
Alls well that ends well I hope
Well done. All that you wanted was an acceptance of the wrong, an assurance that it would never happen again, and an apology, and that's what you've received.
I'm not too sure that I'd have been quite as placid as you've been, but there we are, and as a footnote to myself, it's just as well that I didn't attempt a career in the Diplomatic Corp!!
Alec.
Roasted Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
What a nice thing to do come round and apologise with a bottle . Great result and speaks volumes IMO to the character of the master .
I agree with comment about glad some of the previous evanglical posters arent huntmasters or hunting would grind to a halt through not being able to use the land.
. Great result and speaks volumes IMO to the character of the master .I agree with comment about glad some of the previous evanglical posters arent huntmasters or hunting would grind to a halt through not being able to use the land.
Allover
Well-Known Member
Honey08
Waffled a lot!
I always admire those people that can apologise and admit it when they are wrong. That refers to the huntmaster and the posters above.
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
I'm glad it's been sorted to your satisfaction, I'm sure it won't happen again and I admire the person who called to see you to apologise;, it must be hard for them too (not because they were in the wrong place but because they're never sure what the reaction will be when they appear on the doorstep!)
tractor
Well-Known Member
I've been out all day and wondered what I'd find when I caught up with this thread....thankfully all seems to have been resolved and the hunt in question have behaved honourably.
I was pleased to read this, and also pleased that the OP posted the response she had received.
I was pleased to read this, and also pleased that the OP posted the response she had received.
Yougetwhatyoudeserve
Member
Well done. All that you wanted was an acceptance of the wrong, an assurance that it would never happen again, and an apology, and that's what you've received.
I'm not too sure that I'd have been quite as placid as you've been, but there we are, and as a footnote to myself, it's just as well that I didn't attempt a career in the Diplomatic Corp!!
Alec.
Definitely wasn't placid at the time of the event but then I've always been hot tempered! Never hold grudges and never get bitter though - both things destroy you faster than anything anyone else can do to you.
All I want is people to act decently and be nice and genuine to each other. I was born in town, brought up in town, ancestors were mill workers and miners. I can never claim to any tradition of hunting but I respect peoples rights to freedom of choice but equally expect others to give me the same respect.
Have to admit I was expecting little or no support on here - I was spoiling for a fight when I posted in the heat of the moment yesterday... which is why people understandably thought I was a troll. But credit due theres been more support on here than I ever thought possible
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
1 x abstention here from the patsy parade
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MerrySherryRider
Well-Known Member
Definitely wasn't placid at the time of the event but then I've always been hot tempered! Never hold grudges and never get bitter though - both things destroy you faster than anything anyone else can do to you.
All I want is people to act decently and be nice and genuine to each other. I was born in town, brought up in town, ancestors were mill workers and miners. I can never claim to any tradition of hunting but I respect peoples rights to freedom of choice but equally expect others to give me the same respect.
Have to admit I was expecting little or no support on here - I was spoiling for a fight when I posted in the heat of the moment yesterday... which is why people understandably thought I was a troll. But credit due theres been more support on here than I ever thought possible
I totally agree with your sentiments, you have a sound attitude to life.
So glad you got an apology, and acknowledging their mistake goes a long way in promoting good will.
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
Have to admit I was expecting little or no support on here - I was spoiling for a fight
Why did you need support from this forum, surely this was a localised issue?
We know not where? Nor if there is any substance to your allegations?
You say you were and I quote, "Spoiling for a fight" why enjoin members of this forum?
Did they not have the right to know at the outset and that in the circumstances they would be pandering to your alleged aggression?
Furthermore it would seem from the icons you have used you think it amusing, nay funny to make the allegations you have made?
Bearing in mind your title "The Hunt", an issue that has been recently debated as to hunting descriptions et al, why not The Hounds? Do we take it that no hounds were actually involved. If they where, how many couple?
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Yougetwhatyoudeserve
Member
I have PMed you Judgmental - no reply as yet. You asked for details but seem not to want to converse with me privately...
Judgemental
Well-Known Member
I am not interested in PM's and I am none the wiser in any event.
You have come onto this forum and you have made a very serious allegation that 'hounds' somewhere in England and Wales have breached the 2004 Hunting Act.
Where hounds involved in actual hunting? I have read all your posts and I can find no mention of hounds hunting, only mounted persons and "hounds streaming into your field".
Just because hounds and the mounted field allegedly entered your tenanted land, that does not consitute any offence under the Hunting Act 2004!
If you care to retract your allegation as to the inference that hounds were involved in hunting, that might just calm the situation.
However make no mistake about it, if you or anybody thinks they can come onto this forum and to quote your own words, "spoiling for a fight" - The Horse and Hound Hunting Forum of all forums and think they can make allegations - true or false and not expect to be closely questioned they would be seriously mistaken by the members of the forum.
Indeed we would be failing in our duty of care to both TFC, the Horse and Hound and the sport we all generally support.
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CARREG
Well-Known Member
Im with Judgemental on this....................Carreg
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I note with interest also that I have offered Fiagai substantive details of what he calls my groundless allegations if he PMs me, but he is clearly not interested in hearing proof, because then he can stick to his insistence that I am lying.
In answer to his question why I have not alerted the Police, I fear that they have better things to do with their time than worry about fox hunting when people are being burgled (see thread on Soapbox about one case where they have not found time to turn out to investigate).
In my eyes, that makes it all the more inexcusable to deliberately hunt fox, knowing that the time of the police is being used to prevent clashes between sabs and hunters. If all hunts stuck to the law, the antis would not be out and the police could be serving the broader society instead of the self-serving few who think that they have a right to break laws that they do not like.
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Noodlebug
Well-Known Member
What a load of old twaddle
Vixen Van Debz
Well-Known Member
By design or accident, their actions were wrong: I'm delighted you've been given an apology, a peace offering and some reassurance. All's well that ends well and all that 80)
AengusOg
Well-Known Member
Ah, so now hunts and supporters are being blamed for the faults in the 'broader society', due to the police' attention being diverted...is that it?
Surely anyone who breaks any law is one of the self serving few...blah blah blah.
Secondly, hunts stuck to the law when it was legal to hunt foxes...and the sabs/antis were always out then. The last time I followed a hunt, on foot, was around twenty years ago, and there were new age hippies in balaclavas blowing hunting horns and shouting abuse. Foxhunting was legal, the antis pissed people off; foxhunting is now illegal (at least in its previous form), the antis piss people off.
I wonder, if you were fined for speeding, how you would feel about a group of people monitoring you every time you went out in your car, and how you may be glad of a police interest in such a scenario.
'If all hunts stuck to the law'...if everyone stuck to the law there would be no need for police forces at all. How likely is that?
Alec Swan
Well-Known Member
J_M old bean,
fond of you as I am, and whilst considering that I've read some unmitigated rubbish on this forum; on this occasion, you sir, have excelled yourself!!
The allegations have been substantiated, the Master concerned has offered an unqualified apology, the OP has graciously accepted that apology, but YOU seem determined to continue with your tirade.
Don't go to the trouble of explaining yourself, I don't have the patience to listen.
Alec.
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
That is not what I wrote, please do not be silly, it just makes fox hunters seem unreasonable and as a whole I know that you are not.
Many people who break the law are part of a self-serving many of badly educated young with inadequate parenting. It does not mean that other better educated people with more advantages in life should follow them into illegal behaviour.
They sabbed because the hunts were being followed by people who were enjoying killing foxes. They are still sabbing hunts which are followed by people who are enjoying killing foxes. The only thing that has changed with sabbing is that the hunts hunting fox with a pack of hounds are doing so illegally. Drag packs do not get sabbed and freely publish their meet lists.
(Cue the usual outrage about using the term "enjoy"?)
People and cameras do monitor me every time I go out in my car. I am unable to reach any shop without going through a set of linked speed cameras. Speeding is illegal and I have no problem whatsoever being monitored to ensure that I do not do it.
If antis had not seen hunts hunting fox since the ban, they would not now be going out on a cold wet winter day to try to stop them doing it, they would have found another target long ago.
The likelihood of your proposed scenario is irrelevant.
There is no excuse for anyone to pick and choose which laws they intend to abide by.
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Always Henesy
Well-Known Member
I think that as usual things are getting out of hand. The original (and justified) complaint by the OP has been addressed by the Hunt Master in the form of Vodka D ) and profuse apologies. The OP has been very mature, magnanimous, and gracious in accepting the apology and is now happy to forget it and move on.
Those who are spoiling for a fight - still - when it is not necessary need to take lead from the OP.
I'll drink to that (preferably vodka ) - let sleeping dogs lie now.
D ) and profuse apologies. The OP has been very mature, magnanimous, and gracious in accepting the apology and is now happy to forget it and move on.Those who are spoiling for a fight - still - when it is not necessary need to take lead from the OP.
I'll drink to that (preferably vodka
) - let sleeping dogs lie now.flower08
Well-Known Member
op, i am pleased that this has been sorted out, i have to say i did expect the master to come and see you because as a rule they dont like to upset anyone.
enjoy your dink
enjoy your dink
DragonSlayer
Well-Known Member
I have to say, whilst I am happy OP got the problem sorted out, this has been a highly entertaining read.
Fiagai
Well-Known Member
Santa_Paws this is really getting quite tiresome...
I do not wish to become involved with any poster making unsubtantiated allegations so I will not Pm you. I will repeat for your benefit Santa Paws - either put up or shut up - you made your allegations in public so do not attempt to hide behind a curtain of convenient secrecy. If you have "proof" then go to the relevant authorities and do not keep on repeating your tirade ad nauseum. Why would police have better things to do Santa Paws? Surely they would be interested in such "criminal activity"?
Btw I have not mentioned "lying" - if you believe you are right then please do grow a pair and undertake to do what your conscience dictates
From your statements, you clearly are ignorant of the role that fox hunting plays in predator control - you clearly were an anti before the Hunting Act and I take it that you remain so.
Thats fine but please dont pretend that you are somehow motivated by some higher moral regard for society....
Hunts stuck to the law before the hunting Act and were targeted by sabs and antis. Post the Hunting Act these individuals still have nothing better to do but annoy and disrupt others engaged in lawfull activity (and that includes blood hounds!)
I do not wish to become involved with any poster making unsubtantiated allegations so I will not Pm you. I will repeat for your benefit Santa Paws - either put up or shut up - you made your allegations in public so do not attempt to hide behind a curtain of convenient secrecy. If you have "proof" then go to the relevant authorities and do not keep on repeating your tirade ad nauseum. Why would police have better things to do Santa Paws? Surely they would be interested in such "criminal activity"?
Btw I have not mentioned "lying" - if you believe you are right then please do grow a pair and undertake to do what your conscience dictates
From your statements, you clearly are ignorant of the role that fox hunting plays in predator control - you clearly were an anti before the Hunting Act and I take it that you remain so.
Thats fine but please dont pretend that you are somehow motivated by some higher moral regard for society....
Hunts stuck to the law before the hunting Act and were targeted by sabs and antis. Post the Hunting Act these individuals still have nothing better to do but annoy and disrupt others engaged in lawfull activity (and that includes blood hounds!)
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
I agree
You mean that you do not wish to hear my substantiation. If you give me a PM I will give you the name of the secretary of the latest hunt that I was told face to face, by him, that they hunt fox.
I am not in the business of naming and shaming. I do not wish to bring more antis down on your heads. I will tell you privately, not publicly.
If you are tired of me repeating myself then stop repeating your accusation that I am lying and I will stop telling you that I am not. If the police cannot properly investigate my own burglary and other people's then I am not going to be the cause of them spending their time on trying to stop fox hunting. The sabs will do it for them with covert surveillance in time.
I am completely aware of the role of hunting with hounds in fox control. Shooting is as effective, Burns says it is as humane, marksmen say it is humane and effective. My own rural area has never been controlled by hunting with hounds, only with guns. You are typical of people who are passionate about your sport that you believe that those of us who do not support you are simply ignorant of the facts. I am not.
Post the hunting act, sabs are targetting hunts which they can see hunting illegally. Stop all hunts from hunting illegally and they will stop standing out in the wet and cold annoying any of you. They do not sab drag packs. They would not sab hunts that hunt only a trail and call off the hounds if the mistakenly pick up a live fox scent. (I accept that they will still sab hunts hunting legally with two hounds to a gun or a bird of prey). In the main though, they continue their activities because some hunts are continuing theirs.
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Fiagai
Well-Known Member
You really havent read my last post santa_Paws have you?
so I will bullet point this one for your benefit
*I have said nothing about lying
*If you have an allegation/complaint against 3 different hunts- go to the relevent authorites
*Do not defame others with unsubstaniated statements on a public forum
*You have no need to name and shame , I am sure the authorities will treat your with the concern it warrents on the merit of the proofs supplied
*For your information police have divisions devoted to specific areas _ I am sure your local wildlife enforcement unit will not be investigating burglaries (unless by anti's) and vice versa and so should be more than willing to investagate your complaints
*Your opinion on shooting is your own - the effectiveness of shooting is at best debatable
* sabs and antis have been targeting all types of hunts (eg recent incident with bloodhounds) they are not discriminating at least!
*You would appear to have a very warm fuzzy opinion of such activity I would argue that they are continuing their activities because of such unsubstatiated allegations by others such as yourself....
so I will bullet point this one for your benefit
*I have said nothing about lying
*If you have an allegation/complaint against 3 different hunts- go to the relevent authorites
*Do not defame others with unsubstaniated statements on a public forum
*You have no need to name and shame , I am sure the authorities will treat your with the concern it warrents on the merit of the proofs supplied
*For your information police have divisions devoted to specific areas _ I am sure your local wildlife enforcement unit will not be investigating burglaries (unless by anti's) and vice versa and so should be more than willing to investagate your complaints
*Your opinion on shooting is your own - the effectiveness of shooting is at best debatable
* sabs and antis have been targeting all types of hunts (eg recent incident with bloodhounds) they are not discriminating at least!
*You would appear to have a very warm fuzzy opinion of such activity I would argue that they are continuing their activities because of such unsubstatiated allegations by others such as yourself....