Dog bit me - my fault - then I kicked it - need (much) better strategy

[Goldenstar]

If you get bitten you need to examine your own behaviour leading up to the bite, then give yourself a slap for getting it wrong.

No SD that’s what you said I should also quote Sandstone because apparently I ought to have been watching it’s body language .
you both made a sweeping statements .

 

[skinnydipper]

So are you anti Caesar then? He makes his hand into a dog jaw shape and uses it to chastise dogs as their mother would do. I don't see anything wrong with that.

 

[Bellasophia]

I do agree with you, but I also think it was cruel and uncalled for to suggest that this poster should have her dogs taken off her, when she posted here as a safe place to try to learn from her mistake. I’m afraid I see that as bullying, particularly when what we are talking about is a small kick which wasn’t hard.

Given the demands that the OP give up dog ownership, I’m not surprised people reminded the poster of her own shortcomings. We all make mistakes; if we all lost our dogs over it then the shelters would be full and all homes would be empty.

I think a little more empathy and humanity was needed all round.

I will answer this ,as it’s addressed to me,re the quote..
Your first paragraph is crossing different posters‘input. you agreed with me..but Then comment it was cruel and uncalled for etc etc...I never suggested the dog be removed from poster,
If you read my own posts,i didn’t agree with levs suggestion to take away the dog..
But surely she’s allowed to express her opinion,without being ripped into by a mob?


As for the original poster I saw this as a one off response to a bite and did not in any way condemn her actions,and O.P does have my support@and sympathy.

 

[skinnydipper]

If you get bitten you need to examine your own behaviour leading up to the bite, then give yourself a slap for getting it wrong.

No SD that’s what you said I should also quote Sandstone because apparently I ought to have been watching it’s body language .
you both made a sweeping statements .

To repeat myself, the discussion was about owners and their own dogs.

I don't believe the thread had deviated to discuss random dogs.

 

[Goldenstar]

Of course Lev can express opinions and the rest of have the right as well .
I will always call out unkindness when I see it .

 

[[148596]]

Update:

OK what we all (most especially me) missed is pain. Which is very un HHO like - maybe I should post in Tack Room not specifying the species next time!

This is a dog I've been taking bones off (on verbal command or by hand) a few times a week for years now - we walk in areas near take-aways so it happens regularly... It's a dog who has never resource guarded food and will wait it's turn for the bowl and move away when I say. (I get that not everyone likes this idea, all I'm saying here is that it works, and easily usually).

I wasn't watching the body language closely this time becasue my mind was elsewhere and _I don't usually need to_ for waste food removal. Bite inhibition has always been patchy possibly due to poor upbringing and certainly not helped by all and sundry treating like a puppy who is allowed to mouth on hands. (I had to shout at someone even this week to not do that). Resource guarding type biting is a completely new behaviour though. Only previous threats to bite (as opposed to mouth) have been when needed uncomfortable ailments treating.

When I realised I'd written that Dog wasn't so keen on walks lately I thought it through again... Had a go at videoing Dog 'trotting up'. Think we have slight lameness. Which would explain reluctance to take walks. And also sudden bad temper. Going to vet.

 

[Bellasophia]

vet check is a good idea,especially if you say this is out of character for him and he’s also slightly lame.

 

[jenniehodges2001]

Yep. Patronising.

 

[skinnydipper]

Have you ever seen the way a dog nips another when it's been pissed off by it? Do you think the adult dog who disciplines the puppy with a short nip is abusive?

So are you anti Caesar then? He makes his hand into a dog jaw shape and uses it to chastise dogs as their mother would do. I don't see anything wrong with that.

There was a faint hope that the discussion would not deteriorate to the point of mimicking dogs.

We can do better.

 

[SAujla]

We have bigger brains than dogs.

Bigger yes, but better and more intelligent? Based on some of the people on here absolutely no chance

 

[skinnydipper]

...

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I think we must remember that dogs understand how to be dogs, before they understand anything else, they know by instinct and learn from their mothers from being tiny. It is much easier for us to try to 'speak' dog than it is for a dog, especially if we are talking about a pup, or untrained dog than it is for a dog to guess what a human means.
I will slap a dog on the flank occasionally, especially if the current Labs' play is getting too rough and one is coming off worse. The black one doesn't always take notice of a verbal warning or even a distraction. The slap isn't punishment as such, it's an intervention but she knows it means she has to leave her sister alone and play differently.

OP, I'm glad you have found a reason for the behaviour, although I realise it probably makes you feel even worse about your one off reaction. I'm not sure that I think that biting is a acceptable response to being asked to give up a prize when you are lame.
I thought you were going to say toothache or similar, which might have made the bite more acceptable.

 

[DressageCob]

I will answer this ,as it’s addressed to me,re the quote..
Your first paragraph is crossing different posters‘input. you agreed with me..but Then comment it was cruel and uncalled for etc etc...I never suggested the dog be removed from poster,
If you read my own posts,i didn’t agree with levs suggestion to take away the dog..
But surely she’s allowed to express her opinion,without being ripped into by a mob?


As for the original poster I saw this as a one off response to a bite and did not in any way condemn her actions,and O.P does have my support@and sympathy.

sorry, I wasn’t suggesting you said the poster should have her dog removed. I was meaning to say I thought it was cruel of another poster to make that suggestion.

I agreed with you that bullying isn’t on, but I was saying I thought the knee jerk reaction that someone should have their dogs removed was incredibly mean. It may be an opinion, but I don’t think it’s unfair to disagree with that opinion. I wouldn’t go trawling through old posts, but I can see why others would when they show that the poster themselves isn’t without fault. People in glass houses and all that.

So I’m sorry you thought I was criticising you. I wasn’t at all. Bullying should always be called out when it’s seen.

 

[DressageCob]

OP I hope the visit to the vets goes well and you get some answers. It’s funny how you can overlook that sort of thing in different animals; if my horse tried to bite me I would immediately assume pain. If it were my dog I’d assume my training has failed somewhere!!

 

[TheresaW]

I don’t think anyone trawled back at old posts. I got the impression the OP was looking to see if anyone had posted a similar post at any point. It is quite a range that comes up in the search option.

 

[{97702}]

Is all of this part of the hoo-ha seriously about the post that the OP made suggesting that I’d also made mistakes with my rescue dogs in the past ? I’d assumed further posts had occurred which had subsequently been deleted by Admin - this assumption was made after reading posts that made references to multiple posters criticising me for mistakes I’d made with my rescue dogs??

Whichever way, as usual the point I was making has been conveniently ignored. I was not criticising the OP for making a mistake with the rescue dog - these things happen, dogs are not robots - I was suggesting that the reaction which occurred when the dog bit the OP was in my view inappropriate.

A great many of you felt my post was unfair and harsh, that’s your prerogative.

 

[TheresaW]

I don’t think anything has been deleted apart from your rant where you swore. I didn’t report it in case you’re wondering. I think that is where the bullying remarks are coming from, replies to that. You really didn’t miss out on anything.

 

[{97702}]

I couldn’t care less who reported it - or not, it may have been an automatic filter that picked it up? - just surprised at some of the subsequent posts.

Plus ca change

 

[TheresaW]

Whichever way, as usual the point I was making has been conveniently ignored. I was not criticising the OP for making a mistake with the rescue dog - these things happen, dogs are not robots - I was suggesting that the reaction which occurred when the dog bit the OP was in my view inappropriate.

A great many of you felt my post was unfair and harsh, that’s your prerogative.

No, you weren’t suggesting it was inappropriate, you said the dog should be rehomed. I’m not searching back on any posts, just going on posts I remember reading, and you contradict yourself so many times, and when caught out/pulled on it, try and play some sympathy card or another.

No idea why everyone is being so nice to you quite frankly - I’d say the dog needs to be rehomed to someone has the first clue what they are doing what they are doing with a rescue and doesn’t think that kicking a dog when they are stupid enough to get themselves bitten is simply an ‘instinctive reaction’.

I’ve been bitten once by one of my rescues in 20 years, it was my fault - I put her into the situation where I let it happen. I didn’t have the slightest inclination to hit or kick her, it was MY FAULT.

I don’t give a damn whether it suits you/your family/your lifestyle to keep the dog - if you act like that you shouldn’t have the dog IMO

Our previous dog bit me. He had guarding issues, and when he had something he shouldn’t, I went to take it ignoring all the advice I’d read, and got bitten. No I didn’t tell him off, kick him or anything else. Had he however bitten me totally out of the blue, with no warning, doing something I’d done several times before, I can’t honestly say I wouldn’t have reacted in shock.

 

[{97702}]

No, you weren’t suggesting it was inappropriate, you said the dog should be rehomed. I’m not searching back on any posts, just going on posts I remember reading, and you contradict yourself so many times, and when caught out/pulled on it, try and play some sympathy card or another.



Our previous dog bit me. He had guarding issues, and when he had something he shouldn’t, I went to take it ignoring all the advice I’d read, and got bitten. No I didn’t tell him off, kick him or anything else. Had he however bitten me totally out of the blue, with no warning, doing something I’d done several times before, I can’t honestly say I wouldn’t have reacted in shock.

Oh for goodness sake......to spell it out even more clearly to you, my reply in post 106 was for those posters who were saying that I was trying to take the moral high ground on the basis that my own rescue dogs had never done anything wrong. Of course my dogs have done things wrong, and I’ve got things wrong with them (hence I’ve got bitten, they had a fight etc) - what I didn’t do was kick them then isolate them because I got it wrong.

My personal view is that rescue dogs have gone through enough rubbish in their lives before they reach their ‘forever homes’ to receive treatment like that when they are re-homed. I’ve formed that view after a lot of exposure and experience of a lot of rescue dogs, not just my own.

So no I’m not trying to “contradict myself” and all the other stuff you accuse me of....I work in HR and unfortunately have to use different terminology to that which you are apparently used to, ‘inappropriate’ in this instance means ‘should not have done it at all’ - and to point out the obvious, at no time have I denied saying I think the dog should be re-homed, just because I described the owner’s behaviour as inappropriate doesn’t suddenly suggest I’m going back on that??

Since you appear to have difficulty understanding posts maybe ask for clarification before jumping to conclusions, I can’t guarantee I’ll make every post simple for everyone to understand each time I post.

 

[Clodagh]

I think kicking a dog is actually more acceptable than smacking. If you boot out in a spur of the moment reaction it is perhaps more excuseable then the planned smack.
Based on my saying I haven’t smacked a dog for years but did boot Ffee last year when she was trying to swallow a rabbit and would not drop it. Inexcusable perhaps but definitely effective!

 

[skinnydipper]

I think kicking a dog is actually more acceptable than smacking. If you boot out in a spur of the moment reaction it is perhaps more excuseable then the planned smack.
Based on my saying I haven’t smacked a dog for years but did boot Ffee last year when she was trying to swallow a rabbit and would not drop it. Inexcusable perhaps but definitely effective!

Acceptable - no.

People plan to smack their pets? Seriously?

 

[Clodagh]

Acceptable - no.

People plan to smack their pets? Seriously?

I don’t mean plan as in getting up in the morning and thinking ‘I’ll thump a dog today’, just that to smack a dog you need to make a decision to do it and probably bend over to reach. A spontaneous kick out would be more... spontaneous.
I don’t make a habit of using physical violence against them, but thought I would confess to the boot as I said about on here at the time and didn’t want to be accused of hypocrisy by any of the people who have nothing better to do than go back through four year old posts to look for an issue.

 

[skinnydipper]

I don’t mean plan as in getting up in the morning and thinking ‘I’ll thump a dog today’, just that to smack a dog you need to make a decision to do it and probably bend over to reach. A spontaneous kick out would be more... spontaneous.
I don’t make a habit of using physical violence against them, but thought I would confess to the boot as I said about on here at the time and didn’t want to be accused of hypocrisy by any of the people who have nothing better to do than go back through four year old posts to look for an issue.

I think owners should have a better strategy for managing unwanted behaviour than smacking - just saying.

 

[SAujla]

I think owners should have a better strategy for managing unwanted behaviour than smacking - just saying.

It doesn't sound like the kick was a strategy more of a last resort, I'm not sure what else would work when a dog has got hold of a rabbit like in that example. I understand prevention is better and not to let the dog get hold of the rabbit in the first place but it's not always that easy.

There is a big difference between what happened with the OP or Clodagh and the people who use smacking or kicking as an actual training technique and think it's okay

E collars are banned in the UK

 

[skinnydipper]

E collars are banned in the UK

Not true.

Illegal in Wales.

There was a proposal to ban them in England in 2018.

October 2020. The Government remains committed to banning the use of remote controlled hand-held electronic training collars (e-collars) for dogs and cats in England. We will introduce the necessary legislation to implement the ban as soon as parliamentary time allows.

https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2020-10-12/102125

This is the exactly the same reply when the question was tabled on 29 January 2020

 

[skinnydipper]

It doesn't sound like the kick was a strategy more of a last resort, I'm not sure what else would work when a dog has got hold of a rabbit like in that example. I understand prevention is better and not to let the dog get hold of the rabbit in the first place but it's not always that easy.

There is a big difference between what happened with the OP or Clodagh and the people who use smacking or kicking as an actual training technique and think it's okay

E collars are banned in the UK

I was already aware of the Ffee/rabbit incident which was discussed earlier in the year. Out of courtesy to Clodagh, I had chosen not to mention it.

 

[Clodagh]

I was already aware of the Ffee/rabbit incident which was discussed earlier in the year. Out of courtesy to Clodagh, I had chosen not to mention it.

Thank you but I'm really not ashamed about it. It was the first time I used force with her and haven't needed to or done it again since. When it was originally discussed it was a how would you get the rabbit off (you = one, not you = SD) and I don't think anything useful was decided. I suspect it won't again here either.
We can aways just electrocute them. THat'll fix it

 

[ycbm]

What's wrong with a vibration collar? It shakes, it doesn't shock. Presumably all it does is distract? Useful for deaf dogs, I understand.

 

[skinnydipper]

What's wrong with a vibration collar? It shakes, it doesn't shock. Presumably all it does is distract? Useful for deaf dogs, I understand.

I am awaiting clarification as to what type of collar the poster was referring to.

I bought a vibration collar for my deaf dog when I adopted her, it was useless. Instead she was rewarded for frequently checking in with me, eye contact was sufficient, and signals to tell her it was okay to carry on or to return to me.

ETA. I fear that if the poster is using it to correct unwanted behaviour it will not be a vibration collar, but we'll see.