Dog bit me - my fault - then I kicked it - need (much) better strategy

[TheresaW]

Thank you but I'm really not ashamed about it. It was the first time I used force with her and haven't needed to or done it again since. When it was originally discussed it was a how would you get the rabbit off (you = one, not you = SD) and I don't think anything useful was decided. I suspect it won't again here either.
We can aways just electrocute them. THat'll fix it

It would work (electrocution). Have mentioned it many times before about Luna as a pup. She jumped up against the electric fence to get a closer look at the horses. One was close to the fence, and since that day, she has given the horses a very wide berth. Funnily enough, she is not wary of the fence at all. I do always switch it off, that day she was just a bit quicker than me.

 

[skinnydipper]

There's a plethora of behaviourists and trainers on the thread so I think I'll step back.

 

[Sandstone1]

It would work (electrocution). Have mentioned it many times before about Luna as a pup. She jumped up against the electric fence to get a closer look at the horses. One was close to the fence, and since that day, she has given the horses a very wide berth. Funnily enough, she is not wary of the fence at all. I do always switch it off, that day she was just a bit quicker than me.

That would be because she thinks it was the horse that hurt her. ABC. A antecedent was the presence of the horse B the behaviour, was jumping up to see the horse C was the consequence, getting the shock. The dog would not think it was the fence that hurt her but the horse.

 

[TheresaW]

There's a plethora of behaviourists and trainers on the thread so I think I'll step back.

I hope that wasn’t aimed because of my post, it was meant to be tongue in cheek. I never have and never would use electric as a training method. What happened with Luna was an accident.

 

[TheresaW]

That would be because she thinks it was the horse that hurt her. ABC. A antecedent was the presence of the horse B the behaviour, was jumping up to see the horse C was the consequence, getting the shock. The dog would not think it was the fence that hurt her but the horse.

Yes, that’s what we believe. Would never have deliberately done that to her, but in hindsight, it did us a favour.

 

[skinnydipper]

I hope that wasn’t aimed because of my post, it was meant to be tongue in cheek. I never have and never would use electric as a training method. What happened with Luna was an accident.

Not specifically.

 

[Clodagh]

There's a plethora of behaviourists and trainers on the thread so I think I'll step back.

Probably best, there’s is nothing more annoying than overwhelming sanctimoniousness.

Most people have made mistakes at some point in their lives.
I don’t think TWs husky getting shocked was a failing by TW at all. She now has a dog that can have fun in a safe fenced environment as a result of an incredibly timely self administered shock. Not the same as someone pressing a button when they want to.

 

[Tiddlypom]

.

I hope that wasn’t aimed because of my post, it was meant to be tongue in cheek. I never have and never would use electric as a training method. What happened with Luna was an accident.

And as I have previously posted, an accidental zap on the sheep string worked very well on the late JRT.

It was not a set up situation in any way, our winter woolly visitors had arrived in the top hay field. He ran off towards them (deaf lugs) and ran into the farmer’s electric string. He ran back yelping. He avoided sheep completely after that.

 

[ester]

I am awaiting clarification as to what type of collar the poster was referring to.

What clarification is being waited for when the post specifically says vibration in it? I'm confused at the jump people have made to a shock e-collar when it said vibration.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I think my Sprollie is not as clever as he pretends. 3 times he's been got by the electric fence now and no association seems to have been made. ? The Spaniel got got and was just like "oh yeah, that's the good stuuuuufff"... pain is fun for him I'm sure.

 

[ycbm]

I think my Sprollie is not as clever as he pretends. 3 times he's been got by the electric fence now and no association seems to have been made. ? The Spaniel got got and was just like "oh yeah, that's the good stuuuuufff"... pain is fun for him I'm sure.

?

 

[ycbm]

I find it interesting that people react so strongly to the idea of allowing a dog to shock itself. It happens to every horse who comes to live here that doesn't know what an electric fence is until they try one. They only do it once.

 

[Cortez]

I find it interesting that people react so strongly to the idea of allowing a dog to shock itself. It happens to every horse who comes to live here that doesn't know what an electric fence is until they try one. They only do it once.

A dog shocking itself is not the same as deliberately using a shock collar.

 

[ycbm]

A dog shocking itself is not the same as deliberately using a shock collar.

And I wasn't talking about using a shock collar either. I was referring to posts where people said their dogs shocked themselves on fences.

Just like wot horses do.

 

[ycbm]

Incidentally nobody has been talking about using a shock collar. An assumption has been made, for a reason which escapes me, that someone who suggested using a vibration collar actually meant they would use a shock collar.

 

[Cortez]

Incidentally nobody has been talking about using a shock collar. An assumption has been made, for a reason which escapes me, that someone who suggested using a vibration collar actually meant they would use a shock collar.

I took the inference from that poster that it was a shock collar. I've never seen or heard of a vibration collar - is that likely to work for the purposes being discussed?

 

[ycbm]

I took the inference from that poster that it was a shock collar. I've never seen or heard of a vibration collar - is that likely to work for the purposes being discussed?

I'd never heard of it either, I looked it up to check it was exactly what it says. I don't train dogs I've no idea whether it can work, but on the face of it I can't see why it couldn't be a substitute for a voice command.
.

 

[ester]

Yup some just vibrate, some have vibrate as a setting before shock.

some just beep, the only one I've ever seen used was as part of a freedom fence system on a yard set up do didn't involve a person. - which I'm only really mentioning cos of the dogs getting shocks off fences comment.

 

[Cortez]

And I wasn't talking about using a shock collar either. I was referring to posts where people said their dogs shocked themselves on fences.

Just like wot horses do.

Oh sorry: got the wrong end of the stick - yes, agree with you; electric fences work just the same (better, actually I think) for dogs.

 

[PapaverFollis]

Vibration collars are just vibrations and some people do use them for giving cues to deaf dogs. You could probably even set the dog up to find the vibration rewarding, in the same way you can use a clicker. However in this original context it came up on this thread I think the person was talking about using them as an aversive? Some dogs do find the vibrations aversive in themselves. Others you would have to pair it with an aversive... usually a shock from the same collar which us why the shock and vibration often come together on one collar. Pair the vibrations with a shock often enough and you can stop shocking the dog because it's emotion response to the vibration becomes enough.

For resource guarding I think the swap method well applied is best. However I have also applied the dangling by the harness until the b*gger lets go of the enormous pheasant method effectively. Also sometimes the only thing that will create a successful swap for a giant rotting rabbit is his own food bowl with a whole tin of fancy dog food and a packet of sausages in it.... and even then you had better be quick. Harness dangling does not work for giant rotting rabbits by the way. You have to do the walk of spaniel owning shame through the village with that one.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I probably shouldn't own dogs. ??‍

 

[maya2008]

I hope the cause of the lameness is easy to fix OP and that your dog is feeling better soon.

For the general discussion:

Rescue animals who were once socialised well and had a ‘normal’ upbringing are very different creatures from rescue animals whose formative months/years did not involve proper socialisation. You don’t always know which you are getting. I think people have varying experiences/ideas because of this.

Socialisation is so much more important than people think. I chose a puppy from a farm home where there was the ‘perfect’ set-up in many ways to create a well socialised, well adjusted dog. She went back there for doggy daycare until we moved away so saw her mum and sister regularly. She helped bring up one more litter, ran as a pack with the farm dogs and had a really great start. As a result, she was easy to train and very reliable, she also learned to make her own decisions and act like an adult.
I have never had to carry a pocket full of treats, or needed any reward beyond a bit of fuss for her to do as she is told. She stays with us wherever we go without asking, knows it is her responsibility to get into the car without me checking when I get the kids in, is completely reliable in a garden with no proper fence and for years came hacking with me and never once even needed telling what to do. No special training did that - her mum, her siblings, farm life and a few boundaries from me (I didn’t need to do that much!) created a happy, reliable family dog.

There is no magic way to train every animal, they are all different, and different situations call for different approaches. I don’t use the same methods to train all my horses, some have had a different start in life, some have different personalities - a good smack on the bottom will get one to stop being silly while it would make another panic....

Rather than arguing about methods, it surprised me that no one asked if the dog was ok physically before the incident - if it had been a horse behaving unusually, that is the first thing that would have been suggested.

 

[skinnydipper]

What's wrong with a vibration collar? It shakes, it doesn't shock. Presumably all it does is distract? Useful for deaf dogs, I understand.

I'd never heard of it either, I looked it up to check it was exactly what it says. I don't train dogs I've no idea whether it can work, but on the face of it I can't see why it couldn't be a substitute for a voice command.
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I didn't know that you had an interest in dog training, deaf dogs and communication.

Further to my recent post sharing my experience of using a vibrating collar on a dog who had no hearing (it did not get her attention).

It is possible to communicate with a dog without speaking a word, using facial expression, body language and hand signals.

Initially I overthought the whole training thing and used a tiny flash light as a marker when training but found facial expression better. She was very quick to learn. Being deaf did not hold her back.

If you have any questions, I would be happy to help.

 

[skinnydipper]

Probably best, there’s is nothing more annoying than overwhelming sanctimoniousness.

Most people have made mistakes at some point in their lives.

You were very rude to both myself another forum member in the same post on another thread on AAD. (I won't name her as I have no wish to cause her upset). You deleted it but not before I had seen it. It was one of the reasons I gave up posting on here.

I didn't want to have to have to say this. Kicking a dog is not an accident or a mistake. I would never kick my dog - you can call it sanctimonious, or whatever you like.

Wall eating can stem from anxiety.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s very easy to retrain deaf dogs even when they are old and losing their hearing I done it several times .
Now I train a lot using only hand signals right through it’s just a bit of future proofing

 

[Clodagh]

[QUOTE="skinnydipper, post: 14436350, member: 134106
Wall eating can stem from anxiety.[/QUOTE]

That is a bit of a random conversation sidestep?
I do try not to be rude on here but sometimes the inability to discuss anything but for everyone to be so dogmatic and ‘I am right and the rest are wrong’ can get wearing.

 

[Sandstone1]

.
And as I have previously posted, an accidental zap on the sheep string worked very well on the late JRT.

It was not a set up situation in any way, our winter woolly visitors had arrived in the top hay field. He ran off towards them (deaf lu

[QUOTE="skinnydipper, post: 14436350, member: 134106
Wall eating can stem from anxiety.

Deleted

 

[Tiddlypom]

Deleted

So why part of of a quote from me up? Are you going to leave it there in limbo?

 

[cbmcts]

I've been reading this thread since it was posted and despite having dogs of my own (after growing up with many waifs and strays who weren't always what you would call suitable family dogs) for 30 years, everything from well bred pups, pity buys and rescues, some of whom were in the last chance corral I still get it wrong on occasion.

In an ideal world we would never react badly to a situation, our dogs would always be under full control, we would never put them in a position where they, we or someone else could get hurt (I failed badly on this this week) by being their advocate but do you know what? We're human, we make mistakes and hopefully, we learn from it. If the OP didn't want to learn from this, they wouldn't have posted the thread...

The only people I judge are those who keep doing what they have always done but are surprised when they get the same result each time!

 

[Sandstone1]

So why part of of a quote from me up? Are you going to leave it there in limbo?

Sorry the quote function went weird for some reason. Im not sure what happened. I am leaving it there though. Cant be bothered going round in circles!