Even more livery yards moving towards banning winter turnout?

[lewis2015]

Right - Rant time and I won't be sorry to those I offend; sorry and all that!

I totally agree with Theocat, Elsielouise, Honetpot and others in the same vein.

People who want DIY or any other type of livery just do not have any idea of the running costs of having that sort of yard but think their £15 a week entitles them to everything they demand without any restrictions. By the same token, people who opened yards accepting too many horses for their land without doing their homework from both the financial POV and the toll it would take on their land are also delusional idiots.
Cheap and horses are not words that fit in one sentence; it just can't happen. If it is cheap, it will be rubbish and it's exactly the same when looking for livery.
Cheap livery will not be able to supply your needs for very long without having to make changes whether that means fencing failing badly, supplying (and charging) for extra hay when the grass has gone or restricting grazing at wet times of the year; even worse if you require someone to do jobs in your place. If a horse is stabled and turned out, you want those jobs and associated ones (mucking out, bedding down, feeding, filling haynets, changing rugs, picking out feet, turning out, catching in and so on) it's going to be at least 1 hour of time during the day spent on that horse; minimum wage is £7 ?? so that's an extra £35 a week at least on top of your grazing/stable costs alone; you can't expect it done for nothing.
Again, by the same token, you can't expect yard owners to allow all of their fields to be trashed during wet weather without some restrictions in place else the land is ruined, there'd be no grass for the next year and then you'd be moaning too. Weather has to be taken into account plus the type of land and the stocking rates too. Ideally, a 40 horse yard would need at least 80 acres to do the job properly so if the stocking rate is too dense you just know that will lead to problems when the weather is bad; whether that be by restricted turnout or whatever. It's up to you to do your homework for every season (including things like unprecedented rainfall which is common in the north west) Everything costs and in fairness to most decent livery owners, it shouldn't be them footing the whole bill from their own pocket, the livery charges should allow for all maintenance costs such as rolling, harrowing, repairs, hedgecutting and general upkeep let alone something so trivial as towards a wage of some sort. Most livery owners live on site, it's their home too so to a certain extent it needs to be run for their convenience too especially if there are common entrances and the house is on the yard, not tucked away from it. I wouldn't want anyone knocking about at 6am either unless it was a one off for a vet, cubbing or a show or at the other end of the day either; they deserve some quiet time and your cheap livery is certainly not a reason to expect access all hours as a right.

Put simply - If you aren't prepared to pay a decent price for livery of any type, then don't have a horse at all. Don't expect others to subsidise your hobby and then complain about it.
You'd be the one complaining if you were in the YO's shoes, believe me. I totally agree that livery yard owners need to be realistic in their expectations too, to not over stock, provide decent grazing, fences and so on, but don't blame them if they try to protect their property (no amount of livery will cover the damage caused) by placing fair restrictions when necessary.
Until it's your property, you don't have a say in the matter so if you don't like it, vote with your feet.

I'm not sure how this descended into a rant fest about people not paying more for livery!? At no point have I said what I currently pay and what I pay is not the issue. My question was how reasonable is it to manage an hour a day turnout? I understand that it is not my land and that the decisions are not mine to make, however saying 'vote with your feet' is a simplistic suggestion when the livery situation in my area does not really allow this. And I am also financially stable and carefully budgeted for my horses thanks, so suggesting that this is a miser's standpoint is facile. I simply refuse to pay excessive amounts (more than my mortgage) for 'part' livery which is substandard to the care I can offer. Plus, none of the part livery yards in my area actually offer superior turnout facilities anyway. Whilst I agree that limiting turnout in bad weather is a necessary evil (e.g. every other day, half days etc) my point was that an hour a day is an extreme reaction and one that I believe to be counter productive. How is letting horses out for an hour and inevitably watching them hooly around and churn up fields even more preferable to a few hours of calm turnout in smaller groups?

 

[9tails]

i wouldnt mind paying it as i know it is still cheap, however i think the yo should consider improving the horses safety first. £20-£25 is the average around here for stable and grazing

This astounds me. So £21 per week is fine even though you're compromising your horse's safety. Mine is a lot more expensive for DIY livery, you know why? Because they put money into good fencing and a decent school. We get restricted during winter, because some liveries are complete idiots and will turn their fields into bogs if given half a chance.

 

[DD]

Unfortunately, I suspect the "extortionate prices" are in fact reasonable prices if you want yard owners to a) maintain reasonable stocking levels for the amount of grazing and b) make any sort of living at all.

The culture shift isn't towards less turnout; it's towards more people wanting to spend less. Less turnout is just a side effect.

The problem is that because so many yards will offer cheap livery, that barely covers their costs and forces them to cut corners on things like maintenance or turnout time, unreasonably low pieces become the norm - and realistic prices for realistic service look expensive by comparison. Everyone is suffering as a result - horse owners, yard owners and horses.

^^^^
I agree

 

[DD]

Right - Rant time and I won't be sorry to those I offend; sorry and all that!

I totally agree with Theocat, Elsielouise, Honetpot and others in the same vein.

People who want DIY or any other type of livery just do not have any idea of the running costs of having that sort of yard but think their £15 a week entitles them to everything they demand without any restrictions. By the same token, people who opened yards accepting too many horses for their land without doing their homework from both the financial POV and the toll it would take on their land are also delusional idiots.
Cheap and horses are not words that fit in one sentence; it just can't happen. If it is cheap, it will be rubbish and it's exactly the same when looking for livery.
Cheap livery will not be able to supply your needs for very long without having to make changes whether that means fencing failing badly, supplying (and charging) for extra hay when the grass has gone or restricting grazing at wet times of the year; even worse if you require someone to do jobs in your place. If a horse is stabled and turned out, you want those jobs and associated ones (mucking out, bedding down, feeding, filling haynets, changing rugs, picking out feet, turning out, catching in and so on) it's going to be at least 1 hour of time during the day spent on that horse; minimum wage is £7 ?? so that's an extra £35 a week at least on top of your grazing/stable costs alone; you can't expect it done for nothing.
Again, by the same token, you can't expect yard owners to allow all of their fields to be trashed during wet weather without some restrictions in place else the land is ruined, there'd be no grass for the next year and then you'd be moaning too. Weather has to be taken into account plus the type of land and the stocking rates too. Ideally, a 40 horse yard would need at least 80 acres to do the job properly so if the stocking rate is too dense you just know that will lead to problems when the weather is bad; whether that be by restricted turnout or whatever. It's up to you to do your homework for every season (including things like unprecedented rainfall which is common in the north west) Everything costs and in fairness to most decent livery owners, it shouldn't be them footing the whole bill from their own pocket, the livery charges should allow for all maintenance costs such as rolling, harrowing, repairs, hedgecutting and general upkeep let alone something so trivial as towards a wage of some sort. Most livery owners live on site, it's their home too so to a certain extent it needs to be run for their convenience too especially if there are common entrances and the house is on the yard, not tucked away from it. I wouldn't want anyone knocking about at 6am either unless it was a one off for a vet, cubbing or a show or at the other end of the day either; they deserve some quiet time and your cheap livery is certainly not a reason to expect access all hours as a right.

Put simply - If you aren't prepared to pay a decent price for livery of any type, then don't have a horse at all. Don't expect others to subsidise your hobby and then complain about it.
You'd be the one complaining if you were in the YO's shoes, believe me. I totally agree that livery yard owners need to be realistic in their expectations too, to not over stock, provide decent grazing, fences and so on, but don't blame them if they try to protect their property (no amount of livery will cover the damage caused) by placing fair restrictions when necessary.
Until it's your property, you don't have a say in the matter so if you don't like it, vote with your feet.

Hear, Hear!

 

[ben456]

i didnt come here for an argument guys. im happy where i am, get more than enough turnout and i understand if the horses have so stay in sometimes. the yard is all diy and the cost for diy in my area is quite cheap so £25 is a little bit over the average as we dont have any facilities. we dont have a menage and we have no where to ride on the yard, we have to hack out. the yo doesnt have to pay anyone as they do everything theirselves. the yo said they dont mind people being about from around 5:30am, im there at 7am and im usually the first there. im also more than happy to leave there no later than 7:30pm. i wont exactly complain about paying £25 and ill be happy to pay it.

 

[LeedsHorseys]

Unfortunately, I suspect the "extortionate prices" are in fact reasonable prices if you want yard owners to a) maintain reasonable stocking levels for the amount of grazing and b) make any sort of living at all.

The culture shift isn't towards less turnout; it's towards more people wanting to spend less. Less turnout is just a side effect.

The problem is that because so many yards will offer cheap livery, that barely covers their costs and forces them to cut corners on things like maintenance or turnout time, unreasonably low pieces become the norm - and realistic prices for realistic service look expensive by comparison. Everyone is suffering as a result - horse owners, yard owners and horses.

Would agree with this. I pay for very expensive livery, but because of that there are not as many horses and plenty of grazing to rotate and rest, meaning they all go out all year unless weather is horrendous/not safe. You get what you pay for. Cheap yards overstock the land, and if they don't restrict grazing in winter the fields are destroyed for the summer and people complain there isn't enough grass.. they can't win.

 

[Equi]

My yard have 24/7 summer turnout and then winter paddocks so about three horses to a area about 1/4 maybe just a bit more of an arena size area. Works out okay and is better than having days where they can't leave the stable due to field condition, but I hate that the haylage is restricted - they're obsessive over the haylage. I had a few arguments last year about it too and I expect I will again. I love my yard and so does my horse so I'm reluctant to leave - I just have to stand my corner and buy hay bales and more haylage when I am allowed and repeat over and over that a 17hh 16yo hunter can not survive on the same as a fat native!!

 

[skint1]

I am so fortunate with my yard, really am, we have winter turn out, it's up to us to manage whether we want the horses in or out, and I am grateful and respectful. I would pay more if it was required.

 

[SEL]

I've got 2 that really need to be out 24:7 - arthritis, PSSM - and most of the yards around here have said they can't guarantee winter turnout.

My cheap and cheerful yard currently does allow it because they only have a small number of stables and even though I pay for a stable for both of mine I have 'loaned out' the old boys box at times because he really doesn't like being in. That said the farmer that owns the land had a meltdown the other day about how trashed the fields were looking. We flooded really, really badly at Easter and even though as many horses as possible were pulled off the fields they didn't really recover and we're going into winter with them looking pretty bad. The yard have already said that ad lib haylage is going out soon in the main field and have told the liveries they will need to pay extra for it over winter.

I'm in the SE where livery is pretty expensive anyway - even DIY. Spare land is practically non existent because it is bought up by property developers on a speculative basis. I costed up once how much I would charge for DIY livery if I owned / rented the yard I was currently on and ran it at an appropriate number of horses per acreage. It was a 50% increase on what I'm currently paying plus I'd be OCD about the amount of hay / straw people currently waste!

 

[Damnation]

I know I am onto a winner, hands down but then it is purely a small DIY yard, it is not YM's only source of income, she also works. Our livery covers the rent and bills for the place. No staff, no time spent with other horses as it is purely DIY.

I always have and always will be happy to pay more if the yard suits, this yard happens to suit and it also happens to be cheap.

However, some YO's take the royal pee. I know liveries do too. I have been treated like poo at some places as a livery but I have also worked on a large yard where the liveries were constantly pushing. It's swings and roundabouts.

I will also say that my yard isn't posh, it isn't swanky, but if she doubled the price I would still stay - cost really doesn't factor into it for me, if it suits, I pay.

 

[skint1]

great post Damnation, that's exactly how I feel about it too!

 

[charlie76]

I will also add, and probably be shot down, but as long as the horses have some exercise of some sort none of ours care less when they are on restricted turn out as long as they are all on a similar routine and get out of the box. All are relaxed and happy, any that have vices came to the yard with them so not bought about by restricted turn out. They have access to forage when in, go in the indoor for a roll and leg stretch, on the walker and are ridden.

As a yard owner I don't stop turn out for my convenience, its actually more work and cost having them in.

 

[Amye]

Back to the original point of the post - regardless of money - I don't think 1 hour turnout is good. Would it not encourage the horses to belt about more and churn up ground as they've been stuck in for 23 hours a day??

The fields at my yard aren't the best, but we have 24/7 turnout in the summer and all day turn out in the winter. Most horses are in by dark in the winter but there's no real time constraint - just they have to be in over night. IMO I don't think it's fair on horses, who are designed for roaming, to be stuck in a stable almost 24/7 for 6 months of the year.

The perfect solution is obviously to get your own land, but that's difficult enough. I understand where others are coming from regarding costs of running livery yard, and I know managing land is a hard task. But I think that if you can't offer any turnout in winter then you should look at how you CAN offer turnout (more than an hour a day), and if costs have to go up to accommodate that then so be it. People who want their horse to have the best quality of life with more turnout will pay the price.

OP it sounds like a difficult situation you're in and I feel lucky that my boy can graze and roam for most of the day in winter.

 

[Damnation]

It entirely depends.

When my mare was stuck in for 6 months, I would have killed for an hour of turnout a day.

Sometimes, as much as it isn't ideal but beggars can't be choosers.

I will also say OP you have looked at alot of yards and not found any others suitable, I think you need to compromise on something.

 

[PorkChop]

I have oodles of land and use very little for my own horses.

Every time I consider renting out my fields or allowing grass livery I read these type of threads and immediately tell myself not to bother.

I know it has been said before, however managing grass/fencing is bloomin expensive and time consuming.

 

[milliepops]

Back to the original point of the post - regardless of money - I don't think 1 hour turnout is good. Would it not encourage the horses to belt about more and churn up ground as they've been stuck in for 23 hours a day??

^^ this.
OP, it's turned into a rant fest not necessarily because of your opening post, but because livery in general is a bit of a contentious subject and the various parties will understandably have an axe to grind

FWIW I think you've taken a reasonable position being prepared to pay but unable to find suitable offering in the area. My horses have restricted turnout in wet winter weather and might have to stay in for days. I couldn't cope without a school, I'd really struggle if I had to hack both of them to give exercise on those days. It's not ideal when they are in but we cope, the worst thing is actually the hay bills, lol!

Maybe it's time to look further afield to see whether you can find a better compromise even if that means you have to travel further?

 

[ihatework]

Taking livery price out of the debate and just looking at 1h turnout a day issue ....

As a working person it is not ideal as you are obviously limited on daylight hours you can be at the yard to provide the horse with alternative forms of exercise. It is much easier on the individual to deal with what is effectively fully stabled horse if either full exercise livery or it's your own yard and you are working there. As a DIY is is no fun at all trying to manage exercise requirements before and after work, with a fresh and bored horse, potentially with limited access to facilities. In fact it is a massive PITA.

From horse welfare perspective I am very pro turnout. For me it is completely unacceptable to fully stable a non working horse, or even severely restrict turnout.
For working horses, then provided they get a decent amount of work most will settle quite happily into a restricted turnout regime and it is less of a welfare issue, although still less than ideal in my eyes.

I would not personally keep a horse on DIY whereby I could only offer 1h a day turnout for bulk of winter. They either go to a full livery yard and get on a walker one side of day and with facilities to exercise adequately other end of day or I would seriously consider sending further away and turning away for a period.
My general minimum acceptable for a DIY type scenario would be half day turnout through bulk of winter with the very occasional day if closed fields.

For a non working horse then they go out 24/7 and do not stand in a bog all day. If I can't offer that then I can't meet horses needs.

 

[Flame_]

Hi all

Just posting as I'm feeling increasingly fed up and frustrated over the winter turnout options available in the area that I live. Two years ago I moved my horse to a rather 'rough round the edges' yard for the sole reason that they had 24/7 summer turnout and all day winter turnout. He's getting old now and I don't want him stood around in a stable getting stiff and swollen. He also goes stir crazy when in all the time, as I experienced when he was on box rest one time. In the 4 years I've owned him I've moved him 3 times for various reasons, but mainly due to the yards I was on putting heavy restrictions on winter turnout.

On my current yard, last year we started on every day winter turnout but after xmas some of the horses started wrecking the fences (due to field being overstocked and owners not really feeding them hay before they went out), so the owner limited it to every other day which was fine and worked ok for me and my horse.

I've since bought another horse (16 yr old ex racer who is fine when stabled at night, but gets stressy when in for too long).

Yesterday I just happened to be told in passing by another livery that this year the YO is limiting TO to an hour a day over winter!? I emailed the yard owner to confirm and she said that it will be half day turnout to start with, but going to an hour if weather gets bad and any horses that wreck fences will be limited to an hour when their owners are there. Mine have never wrecked fencing so I'm not worried about that, but the prospect of an hour a day if it rains heavily like last winter is awful

I'm a bit annoyed that they are making this change without properly informing people, and I've now got the stress of finding somewhere else. The problem is there is no where else! In the four years I've had my gelding I've been on 4 livery yards and been to look at 10+ other local yards. All either had very limited/ no winter turnout, had no DIY livery option and extortionate prices for part livery, or silly rules like 'can't be on yard before 8am' (I work full time and sort my horses at 6am before work). I've also tried desperately to find a field to rent but no joy there either.

Sorry for the long post, I'm just infuriated at what seems to be becoming more acceptable as a culture shift towards no winter turnout. 25/30 years ago when I was riding as a youngster the horses lived out 24/7 all year with no problems. Fields were not overstocked and people weren't scared of a bit of mud.

Is this particular to the north west or have others experienced this? Would your horses cope on an hour a day turnout? (NB - my horses are both older, semi-retired and are only used for light hacking a couple of times a week).

(X-posted on the north west board to see if others have similar experience).

I'm in the North West and many yards do have stupidly over-stocked fields and limited turnout. I have, in the past paid part or full livery, and done the horse myself as I want to and am able to, just to be at places with decent, safe, regular turnout. It is a p take, but in your shoes I would sell one horse, drop down to having the one and pay to be somewhere with better standards. They call the charge "labour" and its frustrating to pay it when you don't want or need it, but that is what to do if you want to be content with your horse's turnout arrangement. Also keep an eye out for the odd spot on a private yard. You may not get much in the way of facilities but many private places prioritise the horses' welfare over profits.

 

[Luci07]

Short answer is no to one hour only. My yard is one of the few that offers all year turn out but expect us to be adult about it. If it is tipping down, mine stays in. Mine is turned out with 3 other big geldings and it is horrible just how quickly 4 big horses will strip out a field. They went into their (rested) winter paddock last year just before Christmas. Field was stripped within 7 weeks. We are on clay so also struggle with mud fever and the entire mud situation as well. Most yards around us won't allow winter turnout but I am keen on this from a socialisation and exercise point of view. While we are all currently enjoying the extended mild weather (ours were all in by now for the night last year), we are bracing ourselves for rain and mud at some point... as we seemed to be just wrestling with that all last winter! in terms of money, it gets tricky. I am in the SE. Land around here is expensive. Quite a few yards have been sold with planning permission. The base costs for a livery yard manager/owner have increased but salaries haven't. Answers? I don't have any, except to really think about moving further out again..

 

[chocolategirl]

I think this is the 'norm' sadly on a lot of yards and as other posters have said, it's largely down to costs and numbers of horses. That said, I only charge £29 pw DIY with optional assistance, I have guaranteed winter turnout with 24 hr in summer, and can't fill my stables! I hate to see horses stuck in stables and if mine are going out daily(which they ALWAYS do) then my clients horses will be afforded the same option. What I can't guarantee however, is grass all winter, but I do allow hay to be fed in fields. I must admit though, if we have another winter like last winter, I will most likely pack up livery all together as the cost of 'repairing' the knackered paddocks is becoming a major concern. OP, I'm sorry I don't know what to suggest apart from moving area as it seems you have exhausted all the options available to you locally!?

 

[cobgoblin]

Having just read the whole thread....it would appear that horse keeping in the future will be confined to the very rich.....haven't we been here before?

 

[Pilatesclare]

I don't think an hour a day is good enough really.

We have had a number of these threads recently re turnout, livery and cost. I am in the south east and on diy livery as I prefer to and have the time to look after my boy myself, it is not because I want to keep him on the cheap. Part/full livery around here is from £600-£1100 per month. I pay £150 for turnout and stable, arena and OK hacking.

I would not keep my horse on part/full livery as the care of the horses at these yards is way below my standard and I could not put up with it.

But back to the money. I pay what the yard owner charges, I don't offer more the same way as if I buy something from a shop i don't offer more! It is not the fault of horse owners if yard owners aren't charging enough. Yards would not be empty if they charged more.

If yards charged a sensible amount they wouldn't need to over graze the land and therefore there would be sensible amounts of turnout (weather dependent of course).

May be I am very simplistic in my thinking but all of you saying it's because of the cost and we all want it cheap, actually I just want decent accommodation for my horse and would like to look after him myself and am happy to pay for it!!!

 

[OWLIE185]

My advice to you is to buy your own place and then you can do what you want.

You will also discover the expenses involved in erecting and maintaining good quality fencing, installing water and water troughs, maintaining the land, hedges and trees etc. and disposing of the bedding and horse manure.
Grass land costs at least £17,000 per acre when purchased in small units.
If it does not have consent for Equestrian use then you will need to instruct a surveyor to get you change of use and planning permission for field shelters and stables.
Good quality stables with concrete bases £3,000 each
Fencing such as heavy duty post and rail with Equi-fencing £20 per metre
Installing a water meter £3,000
Plastic Water Troughs £350.00
Maintaining the land (Harowing, hedge cutting) about £150 per acre per year.
... and it goes on!

 

[ihatework]

May be I am very simplistic in my thinking but all of you saying it's because of the cost and we all want it cheap, actually I just want decent accommodation for my horse and would like to look after him myself and am happy to pay for it!!!

Im with you on your mind set, as I'm sure are others. But unfortunately the sad fact is that there are many people who can't see this.
They think they live in a cheaper area. They think it is normal/acceptable to pay £20 a week. Therefore it's a chicken and egg situation!

I too don't see why some yards stay open. It can't be financially viable.
Good job those lower end yards do stay open though, what on earth would happen to those horses being kept on the real cheap if those yards were to close?

The honest fact is that horses are an expensive luxury and there is a % of owners that can't really afford it unless cheap and poorly maintained is available at a pittance. I'm sure that statement will ruffle a few feathers but sometimes the truth hurts

 

[Fiona]

Getting back to OP's original question. ..

I don't think 1hr turnout a day is acceptable, and would be looking to move.

Hubby and I liveried at friends yard years ago, and we're told they had winter turnout. However in reality this was 3-4 horses per 1/2 acre trash paddock which were mostly weeds so we're mud up to the knees by end of November. Our 3yo bruised her tendon leaning over the wire fence, so I negotiated 1/2 day turnout in a big barn with hay instead, but we moved at the end of the winter as it wasn't fair on the horses...

Now we are fortunate enough to have them at home, and have just finished an all weather turnout so they will definitely be out every day..

Winters are definitely getting wetter though..

Fiona

 

[laura_nash]

I don't think 1hr a day turnout is acceptable on an average livery yard (it might work if all the horses were working several hours a day). Sadly I agree with what others say, it is mostly about land prices. The changes to the planning rules haven't helped. Unfortunately I think it is reaching the point where horse ownership is only for the rich (or uncaring) in some parts of the country.

I've never had it really bad, always managed to find at least every couple of days for a few hours unless the weather was really bad. I have only had really decent turnout at two places in my life though.

One was in Somerset and was on a council farm (i.e. a farm owned by the council and rented out to the YO who was primarily a farmer). It was a working organic cattle farm, so you had to accept certain issues (e.g. couldn't get to the muck heap at milking time) and it wasn't pretty (rusting machinery all over the place). It had lovely grazing though. Sadly the last I heared it was due to be sold off for a rather staggering sum of money (well over £1m) as the council needs the money.

The second is here at home, we gave up looking for property with land or even just a paddock with water and decent access in Somerset - totally unaffordable. So we moved to Ireland.

 

[lewis2015]

I don't think an hour a day is good enough really.

We have had a number of these threads recently re turnout, livery and cost. I am in the south east and on diy livery as I prefer to and have the time to look after my boy myself, it is not because I want to keep him on the cheap. Part/full livery around here is from £600-£1100 per month. I pay £150 for turnout and stable, arena and OK hacking.

I would not keep my horse on part/full livery as the care of the horses at these yards is way below my standard and I could not put up with it.

But back to the money. I pay what the yard owner charges, I don't offer more the same way as if I buy something from a shop i don't offer more! It is not the fault of horse owners if yard owners aren't charging enough. Yards would not be empty if they charged more.

If yards charged a sensible amount they wouldn't need to over graze the land and therefore there would be sensible amounts of turnout (weather dependent of course).

May be I am very simplistic in my thinking but all of you saying it's because of the cost and we all want it cheap, actually I just want decent accommodation for my horse and would like to look after him myself and am happy to pay for it!!!

Thank you! This sums up exactly how I feel. I hadn't realised it, but the assumption that people who want DIY want it as they are cheapskates is ridiculous. I just want to look after my horses myself. Shocking as it may be to some, I actually ENJOY looking after my horses! I would pay more happily if it meant better turnout. I just resent paying more on yards for substandard 'part' livery when turnout isn't actually any better!

 

[muddy_grey]

I know I am the minority and may be shot down for it, but restricted turn out doesn't really bother me. When I had a horse 25 years we had less winter t/o than I have now, so I don't think it is a new thing. With the wetter winters it will get worse, but that is not YO fault. I am in the SE and when I was younger it was always a worry turning out on frozen ground, but last year I think it froze 3 times all year, but was much wetter.

Once horses settle into a routine I don't think shorter t/o periods make them go crazy when they are out. In the winter I mostly see them go crazy when they want to come in! However I assume if they are only allowing 1 hour then the YO will be bringing in and turning out for you which seems mad. Half a day every other day would take far less time.

When I was a kid the horses got 1/2 day per week t/o or if they could be out with another then 2 x 1/2 days. On the other days it was my responsibility to make sure my horses exercise. All of the horses were relaxed and happy and we rarely had field accidents in the winter.

The yard I am on now is amazing! I am on part livery and the YO is great and I have no complaints about horse care. There is not a huge amount of land, but it is well managed. There is also a walker which is a great help. In the winter the horses either go out or on the walker in the morning and then most of the liveries ride in the evening, but if not they go on the walker again. There are a few retirees, who go out everyday unless the weather is horrendous. The rest of the liveries go out when the weather suits, but if they have to stay in then they go on the walker twice. The horses are all very happy. If I know I won't be up because of work then I tell the YO and she will normally make sure L goes out as long as the weather is OK.

 

[ljohnsonsj]

I know I am the minority and may be shot down for it, but restricted turn out doesn't really bother me. When I had a horse 25 years we had less winter t/o than I have now, so I don't think it is a new thing. With the wetter winters it will get worse, but that is not YO fault. I am in the SE and when I was younger it was always a worry turning out on frozen ground, but last year I think it froze 3 times all year, but was much wetter.

Once horses settle into a routine I don't think shorter t/o periods make them go crazy when they are out. In the winter I mostly see them go crazy when they want to come in! However I assume if they are only allowing 1 hour then the YO will be bringing in and turning out for you which seems mad. Half a day every other day would take far less time.

When I was a kid the horses got 1/2 day per week t/o or if they could be out with another then 2 x 1/2 days. On the other days it was my responsibility to make sure my horses exercise. All of the horses were relaxed and happy and we rarely had field accidents in the winter.

The yard I am on now is amazing! I am on part livery and the YO is great and I have no complaints about horse care. There is not a huge amount of land, but it is well managed. There is also a walker which is a great help. In the winter the horses either go out or on the walker in the morning and then most of the liveries ride in the evening, but if not they go on the walker again. There are a few retirees, who go out everyday unless the weather is horrendous. The rest of the liveries go out when the weather suits, but if they have to stay in then they go on the walker twice. The horses are all very happy. If I know I won't be up because of work then I tell the YO and she will normally make sure L goes out as long as the weather is OK.

100% Agree with this. Ours are in all winter, they can go for a mad half hour in the school if you wish and we also have the walker and they are all ridden. They get unlimited haylage and big warm beds and I personally think they all look happier and calmer tucked up in the stable than out in the mud, p*ss wet through waiting to come in, or worse running around and chancing giving themselves an injury. My horses all showjump all year round and are fit and in work 6 days a week so I don't know if it maybe varies amongst horses in less work, older ones etc.

 

[skint1]

Having just read the whole thread....it would appear that horse keeping in the future will be confined to the very rich.....haven't we been here before?

Sadly, I agree, and I see signs of it gathering pace. By the 1980s it was already like that where I grew up (just outside New York City) unless you knew someone who maybe had a house with land/stables who'd there before land became very expensive and towns grew and zoning laws changed (which we didnt).

I guess it will please some people who feel strongly that DIY livery is not a good thing and the relative cheapness of keeping horses on DIY lends itself to irresponsibility and neglect. I suspect there are just as many horses at high end yards where no expense is spared (by their owners anyway) who don't get what they need either, but for different reasons.