Facebook footage of welsh stud delivering youngstock to abattoir

[FinnishLapphund]

I haven't read it all...and I hope this isn't opening the discussion up too widely, but I hatch chickens every year, rare breeds or colours. I cull all the males that are not exceptional at 6 weeks. I hate doing it, and in fact now hatch far less than I used to to avoid it, but if you hatch an egg chances are no one wants if it is male, and at least 50% are.
Incorrect females can be sold to pet homes.
So either let the rare breeds die out or become incorrect or unsound or cull.

The important thing to me is that as little as possible go to waste. I know a dog owner who buys, and stuff her freezer full with culled male chickens. That is the base diet which she feeds her dogs on.
I don't remember if she said she served them frozen or partially thawed, but she definitely said they were whole, small, culled male chickens.

 

[Clodagh]

And what about dogs then? Just one example - merle is a common colour in the Australian Shepherd. Breeding merle to merle creates 25% white or problem (deaf, no eyes, etc) puppies , without going heavily into genetics merle has a dilute gene, and 2 dilute genes produce the lethal white gene.
So do breeders not breed merle to merle? No - they carry on to keep the colour in the breed, and cull the resulting defective puppies.
This goes on in nearly all breeds where the desired trait is a mutation- the unhealthy ones are culled.
IMO breeders shouldnt breed these dogs, but pugs, french bullies etc etc are very popular so they carry on breeding and killing.

Merle to non merle will produce a percentage of merle. Do you actually know that this culling happens?
I know it does in ridgebacks and so on, without a ridge they are culled. I don't get that.

 

[Clodagh]

The important thing to me is that as little as possible go to waste. I know a dog owner who buys, and stuff her freezer full with culled male chickens. That is the base diet which she feeds her dogs on.
I don't remember if she said she served them frozen or partially thawed, but she definitely said they were whole, small, culled male chickens.

I don't feed raw but they go to a friend for his hawks and ferrets.

 

[stormox]

I don't think anyone should be breeding merle to merle, there is no need to to keep the colour in the breed.

No NEED, but the colour is the most popular. No NEED for pugs etc to have squashed faces, but people want them. Breeders breed what people want, what judges put up at shows, what sells.
Whether its horse dog or chicken - its us consumers who dictate what breeders breed.

 

[Clodagh]

Colts can be gelded.

I agree with this, and also agree with the appalling breeding standards in the Welsh pony industry, so far as I know it is far worse than any other native. I don't have a strong opninion on these colts, in this situation, this year, going to slaughter.

 

[Clodagh]

No NEED, but the colour is the most popular. No NEED for pugs etc to have squashed faces, but people want them. Breeders breed what people want, what judges put up at shows, what sells.
Whether its horse dog or chicken - its us consumers who dictate what breeders breed.

No one ever need cull a pug or a bulldog though, so far as I can see the less functional it is the more people will cough up a fortune for it.

 

[stormox]

Merle to non merle will produce a percentage of merle. Do you actually know that this culling happens?
I know it does in ridgebacks and so on, without a ridge they are culled. I don't get that.

Yes i do. A friend of mine imported the first ones into UK in the early 80s. Merle is a recessive and will eventually die out if not specifically bred for.

 

[Clodagh]

Yes i do. A friend of mine imported the first ones into UK in the early 80s

Wow, and she does this!?

 

[ester]

No NEED, but the colour is the most popular. No NEED for pugs etc to have squashed faces, but people want them. Breeders breed what people want, what judges put up at shows, what sells.
Whether its horse dog or chicken - its us consumers who dictate what breeders breed.

I'm not sure you understand what I was saying. You were saying they breed merle to merle to keep the colour in the breed, you don't.

(oh and it's a dominant, not recessive so maybe we did need to get into the genetics a bit more)

 

[stormox]

Wow, and she does this!?

Sadly she and her partner have since died, but she did. It is still done though, and I believe the breed is still sometimes docked too although a good percentage of them are actually born bob tail.

 

[stormox]

I'm not sure you understand what I was saying. You were saying they breed merle to merle to keep the colour in the breed

That is why I thought they did it, but maybe its just because certain good dogs they wanted to use were merle, it was certainly done and any mostly white puppies killed. I think if you get a merle that is homozygous (merle from both parents) it is more likely to breed merle puppies from a tri or solid than a heterozygous merle.

Please correct me if Im wrong,

 

[ester]

Well they don't need to which is handy as the results of a merle to merle mating are unregisterable for some breeds now.

 

[Jeni the dragon]

Just going back to the bit where Fell and Dale's ponies were being discussed, Fell ponies have an X register for ponies with "excessive white". Before I bought mine, I went to the FPS sale quite often. There would easily be 80 odd weanlings, mainly from a few big named studs, and most of the colts were bought be the meatman.

I really feel for the stud in question. It must have been very tough for them. But its definitely not something I'm against happening.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

And what about dogs then? Just one example - merle is a common colour in the Australian Shepherd. Breeding merle to merle creates 25% white or problem (deaf, no eyes, etc) puppies , without going heavily into genetics merle has a dilute gene, and 2 dilute genes produce the lethal white gene.
So do breeders not breed merle to merle? No - they carry on to keep the colour in the breed, and cull the resulting defective puppies.
This goes on in nearly all breeds where the desired trait is a mutation- the unhealthy ones are culled.
IMO breeders shouldnt breed these dogs, but pugs, french bullies etc etc are very popular so they carry on breeding and killing.

I've owned a Tricoloured Smooth Collie, and from what I can recall from what I read about Collies, Rough, and Smooth, the Merle gene in dogs are partially dominant (something about an incompletely dominant gene I think it says). In Sweden you're only allowed to breed a Blue Merle Collie with a Tricoloured. It is enough that a puppy from such a combination inherit the gene from one of their parents, to become Blue Merle.

You can not register a Collie with two Blue Merle parents in the Swedish Kennelklubben. Since a Sobel coloured puppy from a Sobel x Blue Merle combination can carry a not visible Merle gene, that colour combination is also not allowed.

Since Blue Merle Collies in Sweden is as healthy as a Sobel, or Tricoloured Collie, I fail to see a problem with Swedish breeders breeding them.

 

[Clodagh]

Well they don't need to which is handy as the results of a merle to merle mating are unregisterable for some breeds now.

You can not register a Collie with two Blue Merle parents in the Swedish Kennelklubben. Since a Sobel coloured puppy from a Sobel x Blue Merle combination can carry a not visible Merle gene, that colour combination is also not allowed.

Since Blue Merle Collies in Sweden is as healthy as a Sobel, or Tricoloured Collie, I fail to see a problem with Swedish breeders breeding them.

I'm pleased to see that it seems that for once the Kennel Club is actually on the ball with a health issue!

 

[FinnishLapphund]

Merle to non merle will produce a percentage of merle. Do you actually know that this culling happens?
I know it does in ridgebacks and so on, without a ridge they are culled. I don't get that.

I have heard about that it has happened also in Sweden, but as I've understood it, it is only a minority of breeders who have done this, and not many, if any, does it today.

According to what I've read, in around 1 puppy per 200 Rhodesian Ridgebacks in Sweden is born without a ridge. Also according to what I've read, Rhodesian Ridgebacks often have litters with around 9 puppies in Sweden, so with my lousy sense for mathematics, I presume that means statistically 1 puppy per around 22 litters is born without a ridge?
I could very well be wrong, and it also might be different numbers for other countries, but I thought it might be interesting to know in around how often it occurs.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

I'm pleased to see that it seems that for once the Kennel Club is actually on the ball with a health issue!

I don't know about the English KC, but as I recall it, the Swedish Kennelklubben had that rule already when I bought my late Smooth Collie back in 1993.

 

[Gloi]

Colts can be gelded.

Which can cost more than they will sell for.

 

[teddypops]

Which can cost more than they will sell for.

That’s not the point I was making.

 

[Cortez]

That’s not the point I was making.

Yes, but it is the point which is relevant.

 

[teddypops]

Yes, but it is the point which is relevant.

Not the only relevant point.

 

[Gloi]

It's the reason Dragon Driving is full of dirt cheap colts for sale though.

 

[teddypops]

It's the reason Dragon Driving is full of dirt cheap colts for sale though.

I was making the point that horses are not like other male animals that there is no use for them other than breeding. Horses can be gelded and used for riding/ driving. They don’t have to be killed just for being male. I am aware of the financial aspect.

 

[Gloi]

Which of these will you take home then
https://www.dragondriving.co.uk/horsesunder1000.php

 

[teddypops]

Which of these will you take home then
https://www.dragondriving.co.uk/horsesunder1000.php

Which of these will you take home then
https://www.dragondriving.co.uk/horsesunder1000.php

Why would I take any home?

 

[Steerpike]

On one advert it describes colour as browny ginger......

 

[milliepops]

Which of these will you take home then
https://www.dragondriving.co.uk/horsesunder1000.php

yeah it really is very striking that the colts are all up for peanuts.
I have half an eye on DD as would like a foal to run on with mine but....... i don't want a colt either there are sooo many.

 

[tristar]

Your grandfather sounds like a lovely man Tristar.

If only there were more people who thought that way these days.

thank you tarragon

 

[PapaverFollis]

Which of these will you take home then
https://www.dragondriving.co.uk/horsesunder1000.php

Do you think the stallion called "Worrier" on page 2 thinks that he's called "Warrior"?

?

 

[Clodagh]

yeah it really is very striking that the colts are all up for peanuts.
I have half an eye on DD as would like a foal to run on with mine but....... i don't want a colt either there are sooo many.

I bought a funny looking thing to keep my foal company, he was gelded but tbh if you can get one for peanuts getting them gelded is relatively cost effective. I sold mine when he was no longer needed to TheresaW on here. He cost me money overall but was a real plus.