ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
That could have gone very badly with another type of person ?
Facebook footage of welsh stud delivering youngstock to abattoir
- Thread starter Frumpoon
- Start date
That could have gone very badly with another type of person ?
Hannahkayj
Member
you have no proof she’s done this for next year. Have you seen her breeding books? Have you seen the scans? Or are you just wildly assuming
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Only if it doesn't contain so many assumptions about things like weaning
tristar
Well-Known Member
have you proof they have or have not,? or are you wildly assuming and asking me a question the answer to which none of us know
year in year out does no specify this year
do people who carry on like this have, err, breeding books and do they bother scanning have you proof of this?
Hannahkayj
Member
We aren’t the ones assuming though, you are claiming she has no care either. Of course they have breeders passports how do you think they register with the society ?
Ownedby4horses
...
God, my worst nightmare, I’m a horse obsessed vegetarian. ?
tristar
Well-Known Member
frankly my dear, i don`t give damn
Hannahkayj
Member
You may not give a damn, you may be happy to watch someone’s world burn based merely on assumptions. But the vast majority of us who are rational don’t.
tristar
Well-Known Member
it was probably welsh foal, or one the 5,000 two year old trotters slaughtered every year,
tristar
Well-Known Member
i am not happy about any of it, especially about the foals being slaughtered, how dare you say that
Hannahkayj
Member
You literally just said you don’t give a damn about making assumptions So what is it? don’t get upset about being quoted for what you’ve said
FestiveG
Over the hill and far awa
Do you have the same level of anger over the slaughter of other animals?
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
I think breeding horses specifically for meat is a completely separate consideration though? If people do that, with high welfare standards, then that's a completely different business model to the one some native pony breeders appear to engage in. Encouraging breeders to breed for the meat market to improve welfare can be a good thing sometimes- I do think it has benefited some Dartmoor Hill Ponies a bit, for example.
But I don't think that's what's going on here or with Welsh Ponies in general? It seems more like some studs are producing foals they know may not sell because they have the back up option of sending them to slaughter- and that to me is a flawed business model, because overbreeding tends to reduce welfare in the breed/with horses in wider society. AFIAK, you don't hear of this ever happening with Fell or Dales ponies, for example?
We condemn puppy farms, and rightly so, and this doesn't seem like a dissimilar business model to me?
Again, I'm not commenting on this specific breeder or the specific circumstances this year. I accept for them this may have been a one off due to the particular circumstances of this year. I don't think witch hunts are ever helpful, but it's surely worth having a rational conversation about breeding more generally?
If these ponies were of a rare breed that's in high demand, do people think their fate would have been the same?
But I don't think that's what's going on here or with Welsh Ponies in general? It seems more like some studs are producing foals they know may not sell because they have the back up option of sending them to slaughter- and that to me is a flawed business model, because overbreeding tends to reduce welfare in the breed/with horses in wider society. AFIAK, you don't hear of this ever happening with Fell or Dales ponies, for example?
We condemn puppy farms, and rightly so, and this doesn't seem like a dissimilar business model to me?
Again, I'm not commenting on this specific breeder or the specific circumstances this year. I accept for them this may have been a one off due to the particular circumstances of this year. I don't think witch hunts are ever helpful, but it's surely worth having a rational conversation about breeding more generally?
If these ponies were of a rare breed that's in high demand, do people think their fate would have been the same?
Hannahkayj
Member
fell and dales ponies do end up at slaughter too, drift sales one that can’t sell etc. Dartmoor ponies exmoor ponies. No breed is “exempt” from going to slaughter
FestiveG
Over the hill and far awa
If they were "substandard" yes, the only way to improve the breed, whatever that is, is to ensure that any below par individuals do not breed. That pairing should obviously not be put together again!
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
I'm well aware of what happens to Dartmoor and Exmoor ponies, but given that it can be pretty tricky to source Fell and Dales ponies even as youngsters, I'm pretty amazed they would end up going to slaughter.
I don't think it's an inevitability.
Hannahkayj
Member
Of course they do sadly, the only reason we’ve heard of this is because the stud used the studs trailer. Think how many other breeds are on unmarked lorries
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
If they were genuinely so conformationally flawed that they couldn't have a useful life, then obviously that is different- but I don't think we know this is the case? It's just rumours, isn't it?
If it's the same stallion and he's thrown three foals with major problems, then IMO he should be gelded and not used for breeding again.
I do agree that circumstance is different, but I'm not sure it definitely applies here?
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
I'm well aware of how many horses end up going to slaughter in the UK- but it's not common to send weanlings to slaughter in all breeding programs. Personally, I think it's an argument for breeding less horses in general, though.
windand rain
Well-Known Member
Answer is yes even rare breeds go to slaughter those those breed society demand no white in feet or face, those born an undersireable colour those with cleft pallets, parrot mouths wonky limbs and overbred with no market. It is a fact of life that those that are not wanted enter the food chain for either carnivores or humans. The problem is that laypeople do not understand that and have jumped on a destructive merry go round that some feel the need to destroy the people too
Hannahkayj
Member
I wouldn’t say “uncommon” just again the AR lot haven’t seen it. So haven’t filmed it, you’ve gotta think what happens to those very weanlings sold at lesser sales for next to nothing. Bought by the same buyer, maybe some studs just get the hunt to come do it.
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
Fair enough those born with conformational problems may need to be euthanised- personally, I think it is kinder at home, but I accept for commercial breeders, sending to abattoir means they at least get some money back.
But to send a horse to slaughter because it's markings do not meet the breed standard does make me very uncomfortable. If it is otherwise sound and could have a good life outside the show ring, I feel it should be given that chance if at all possible. I don't accept that this should be a fact of life that we accept without question.
Wishfilly
Well-Known Member
Believe it or not, I'm not basing my perception of this on what has been filmed, and I'm not naive about what does go on with some breeds where lots of foals end up at low end sales. I'm not really thinking of native ponies at all anymore- but more sport horses/TBs (obviously a lot of TBs do end up going to slaughter later in life, though).
Obviously a lot of native breeds are still bred in a very traditional way, and I just think it's worth having a conversation about whether this is still the right way to be breeding ponies in 2020?
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
is it possible to register these ponies not meeting breed standards on some kind of secondary register?
ycbm
Einstein would be proud of my Insanity...
Couldn't they just get them a generic passport showing parentage unknown?
The idea of shooting a foal because it's got a white sock sickens me to the core.
.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
I think you can, for the PRE's if they have markings that aren't acceptable then they get accepted as 'PRE fusion register B' which was previously register 4 of Spanish type, so I can't see why the others can't do that too.
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
Going away from the original issue now, but I think firstly this links back to a discussion many pages ago about what the true cost of producing these ponies would be, if they were bred using AI etc - many people are simply not prepared to pay what it costs
and secondly, short of some kind of licensing for breeding horses I don't know how you stop someone with some mares from running a stallion with them. i just can't see it happening.
windand rain
Well-Known Member
Sadly not as the breeds are very specific. Minor white marking are sometimes sold as riding ponies but most dont sell them as they cannot guarantee the mare wont be bred from or be passed on pure bred The EU didnt help as they said every pony with a pedigree had to be sold as such.
I was howled down for suggesting every equine bred from should be graded and licenced from shetland to shire and in particular TBs as they have horrendous conformation defects but are sold for millions because mum and dad won races
I was howled down for suggesting every equine bred from should be graded and licenced from shetland to shire and in particular TBs as they have horrendous conformation defects but are sold for millions because mum and dad won races
milliepops
Wears headscarf aggressively
if people want to ensure responsible breeding and traceability then I think recording unknown breeding would be a mistake. that's why I was asking about a secondary register (thanks for confirming shortstuff i already thought that happened with PREs which is why I thought it may already happen with other breeds
)Hannahkayj
Member
I think we would be very surprised by the amount of sports horses who do end up in situations like this, it’s probably very common on the continent if someone doesn’t want a select few/not up to standard etc. I think we as a country are quite odd in how we think about it all.
How some feel it’s okay for an older horse to go? After years of working but a weanling isn’t.