Facebook footage of welsh stud delivering youngstock to abattoir

[ester]

farmers breed to get good stock to keep too. . .

 

[Auslander]

It makes me sad to see this - but not as sad as seeing mudpits full of abandoned horses that have been left to die of starvation.

 

[conniegirl]

Just looked on this years welsh sales, a couple of 4yr old Section A geldings on there, backed and the TOP price was £2000. If you have to send away for backing you are not going to even get your backing fees back at that sort of price, let alone foaling, 4yrs of keep, gelding and vaccines etc.
A 2 yr old gelding (unbroken) sold for £200. Again, you arn't even getting your gelding cost back at that

 

[dorsetladette]

It is sad, but I suppose they have just cut out the middle man. These ponies would probably have gone to a sales somewhere and been bought by the meat man for a few pounds and then taken to the abattoir. At least they had a little less stress this way - it does seem a waste though.

 

[honetpot]

Thats how much it would cost if it wasn't done the way it is.

You would be looking at at least £1500 to get a foal on the floor (STUD fee, vet fees, cost to keep mare etc) then you have the cost of keeping the foal for 4 years, all the associated vets fees, gelding costs, farrier costs, hay, feed and the breeders time to care for all of them So say £2k if you do it on the cheap. Then breaking of small ponies is a specialist job and most good riders who are small enough for 12hh ponies charge around £250 a week for breaking and you need a minimum of 8 weeks.

very easily rack up £5k in costs for a 4yr old just broken pony

Just as a comparison, currently you will be lucky to get £1000 for a just backed section A

That is not how most Welsh ponies are bred. They lease or buy a stallion, you are lucky if they are vaccinated, and then they are run on groups on rough grazing like cattle, and brought in only if they are being shown. They are sold off their dams, and can be over £1000.
A lots of A's when broken have problems because they are used to living out in all weathers, with little extra food, they are tough active ponies. The herd bred A I have was food aggressive because it had to fight for it, the potential stallion I own, in contrast was kept indoors and stuffed with food and only allowed out when it went to a show, so at three he had travelled everywhere, but had no social skills. Very pretty but his face is actually deformed and he is a head shaker, and he can not be ridden. Although he had travelled the country in a very smart lorry of course he was not vaccinated.
I do not understand Welsh showing, the end product for the majority of breeders seems to be not a ridden animal, just a constant cycle of inhand showing and breeding. Its more akin to travellers breeding ponies for their looks, to be seen as a status symbol, like a flash car.
A traditional Welsh pony is a hardy working animal, some of the 'bred to show Welsh' have medical problems that are rarely seen in a pony.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I don’t usually go in for much whataboutery, but rather than folk getting all aerated about some well cared for weanlings with a short but happy life, those who want to make a difference should worry more about the cruelty cases.

This is from a few weeks ago.

https://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/rspca-100-horses-seized-gwynedd-724324


There are much worse fates than travelling healthy youngsters to a reputable abattoir.

 

[conniegirl]

That is not how most Welsh ponies are bred. They lease or buy a stallion, you are lucky if they are vaccinated, and then they are run on groups on rough grazing like cattle, and brought in only if they are being shown. They are sold off their dams, and can be over £1000.
A lots of A's when broken have problems because they are used to living out in all weathers, with little extra food, they are tough active ponies. The herd bred A I have was food aggressive because it had to fight for it, the potential stallion I own, in contrast was kept indoors and stuffed with food and only allowed out when it went to a show, so at three he had travelled everywhere, but had no social skills. Very pretty but his face is actually deformed and he is a head shaker, and he can not be ridden. Although he had travelled the country in a very smart lorry of course he was not vaccinated.
I do not understand Welsh showing, the end product for the majority of breeders seems to be not a ridden animal, just a constant cycle of inhand showing and breeding. Its more akin to travellers breeding ponies for their looks, to be seen as a status symbol, like a flash car.
A traditional Welsh pony is a hardy working animal, some of the 'bred to show Welsh' have medical problems that are rarely seen in a pony.

yes I know that what you describe is currently how they are bred, It is how farmers can afford to sell them for £200. Hence the first line of my post!

Thats how much it would cost if it wasn't done the way it is.

My post was about how that isn't going to change untill people are willing to pay more because until people are willing to pay more the people breeding them cannot afford to do it the way I described.

 

[windand rain]

Of course there is always the criminal act of stuffing them full of food to show as youngstock only to end up shot at 4 due to crippling laminitis. I might even suggest that those colts were the lucky ones. I do not condone overbreeding to get that special one but it happens in all animal breeding from deformed dogs to hereford bulls humans really are the pits when it comes to caring for the natural world

 

[Hallo2012]

I am sure it is much more expensive vs. chucking stallion in field of mares - but if it's compared to owning / feeding a mare for 9 months, then covering vets bills for foaling, then feeding / worming / feet etc. for both mare and foal for another 4-5 months to then get £100 back as meat money - not to mention all the time and effort, is it really that much more expensive?

I've no idea - but rather than just saying "it's how it's always been done so tough" maybe they could look for more creative alternatives?

If they are a nice well intentioned stud then creative alternatives might be a better option than having to do something I am sure nobody would relish. Even the most heartless would be pained to get £100 for 13 months effort and at least that in feed / wormers.

but they dont feed hard feed, barely feed hay, dont worm, barely do feet etc-a lot of these welsh pony studs are run on massive numbers, little care, and a make it or die attitude.

I know a few people that worked at a very well known A/B/C stud that has produced multiple RW and HOYS winners, Australia exports etc, but its mass production they are NOT all in fed, coddled, rugged, wormed etc. The mares run with the stallion and then stay out. The are all in foal to prevent lami. Lorry loads of foals go to the slaughter every year.

theres no AI, scanning etc, no pinching twins or cultures to see why they abort.

when one stallion can cover 20 mares for free V all the work and money of AI, a little wastage is nothing and not worth gelding etc.

not that it doesnt make me sad but i think people are naive to how little money these studs spend on the ponies.........

 

[chocolategirl]

I can only assume there was more to the story (maybe injured / sick in some way the video doesn't show). The horse market is still strong I'm surprised that a stud couldn't get more for them than the abattoir would pay

Or maybe they’re just breeding them specifically for slaughter? That would be my bet sadly ?

 

[Polos Mum]

not that it doesnt make me sad but i think people are naive to how little money these studs spend on the ponies.........

I know they aren't mollycoddled but I can't believe even the largest of operations can get a foal to 4 months old for under £100 (including time / diesel to even take it there) to make it pay back taking it to the slaughter house for that.
I also don't think the ones that make it would be enough to cover the basic basic costs.

 

[dorsetladette]

I know they aren't mollycoddled but I can't believe even the largest of operations can get a foal to 4 months old for under £100 (including time / diesel to even take it there) to make it pay back taking it to the slaughter house for that.
I also don't think the ones that make it would be enough to cover the basic basic costs.

Those foals wont have made them any money - they will have lost money most definitely, but the ones they have found homes for will make them enough to cover the loss on these (I assume colts). If these are the ones chosen to dispose of the ones at home must be exceptional.

I think the biggest mistake they made was turning up with a sign written trailer at an abattoir that's so recently been in the news. If their name wasn't visible this video wouldn't of got the publicity it has.

 

[shamrock2021]

Horse slaughter is actually Cause a lot of suffering because horse are very hard to kill compared to cows and sheep . It’s something to do with there skills and it extremely defcult to get the right spot the first time. My uncle is a farmer and he even says that.

studs shouldn’t be over breeding in the first place.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Horse slaughter is actually Cause a lot of suffering because horse are very hard to kill compared to cows and sheep . It’s something to do with there skills and it extremely defcult to get the right spot the first time. My uncle is a farmer and he even says that.

All the more reason to take a horse/pony to a place with the expertise to do the job properly.

 

[ester]

Or maybe they’re just breeding them specifically for slaughter? That would be my bet sadly ?

you'd be needing to take more than three to make back the fuel cost of taking them surely.

 

[Berpisc]

The other thing to bear in mind with brining on a youngster especially with ponies is that, as a newly backed prospect, they are only at the very start of their education and still have a limited market as you need a skilled little rider and good parental back up (if appropriate) to achieve the safe pony many young riders and parents want.
The good news stories of ponies coming from such as Beeston are great, they are also a reflection of a great deal of time, skill and dedication; good for the pony, but not the easy answer for all youngsters.
Humans are a rubbish species on the whole.

 

[Ranyhyn]

Horses mean something to us, we're on a horse forum. But often as others have pointed out quite rightly, these horses are farmed. That means their owner views them as I do my farm animals. They are a commodity. Those who are excellent examples for breeding or selling are kept, those who are not are culled. Thats the way it works guys. Just because we see a value in the horses because we view horses differently doesnt mean the owner was in the wrong to view them as a commodity as so many farmers do with their stock.
Its unsightly and often unsavoury but its real life and its happening on farms everywhere daily.

 

[meleeka]

All the more reason to take a horse/pony to a place with the expertise to do the job properly.

We have an excellent “knacker man” here. hypothetically, If I had some overbred, unwanted colts, I’d give him a call and he’d come and do the job professionally and kindly at home. I would probably have to pay him, but I’d have made some money on the fillies I’d sold to be able to afford it.

 

[HappyHollyDays]

Horse slaughter is actually Cause a lot of suffering because horse are very hard to kill compared to cows and sheep . It’s something to do with there skills and it extremely defcult to get the right spot the first time.

A good knackerman will have no trouble getting it right first time and it’s quick. Having handed one over to the fallen stockman the pony was on the floor before I had let go of the rope. Not fuss, pony had no idea and within minutes he was being winched onto the lorry. I would rather see animals slaughtered humanely than suffering in dire conditions half starved. Sadly it’s life and death.

 

[maggie62]

Im sorry but WHAT? That’s a slippery slope. Aborting the undesired sex? I cannot believe that has been suggested. We start that with animals then where does that lead? Im absolutely speechless.

Im sorry but WHAT? That’s a slippery slope. Aborting the undesired sex? I cannot believe that has been suggested. We start that with animals then where does that lead? Im absolutely speechless.

Oh....so it is ok to take an independently living /breathing/running around little foal to be slaughtered ! Are you disgusted at the amount of unwanted human foetus's aborted all the time ? How come you are speechless at the thought, at least if they won't stop getting their mares covered then there should be some other way to prevent this disgusting slaughter.

 

[ester]

swift left turn there.

 

[Hallo2012]

I know they aren't mollycoddled but I can't believe even the largest of operations can get a foal to 4 months old for under £100 (including time / diesel to even take it there) to make it pay back taking it to the slaughter house for that.
I also don't think the ones that make it would be enough to cover the basic basic costs.

but the point is that they are culling the ones that will cost money over winter-they arent trying to make money on these, just not lose any more and the value of the sold fillies, in foal fillies and stallions prospects sold on will more than cover a lorry to the abattoir.

 

[shortstuff99]

swift left turn there.

?

 

[ihatework]

Oh....so it is ok to take an independently living /breathing/running around little foal to be slaughtered ! Are you disgusted at the amount of unwanted human foetus's aborted all the time ? How come you are speechless at the thought, at least if they won't stop getting their mares covered then there should be some other way to prevent this disgusting slaughter.

Im not opposed to the idea, but the practicalities probably don’t add up.

Theoretically, if you were going to abort a specific sex, colts presumably, then to be as ethical as possible this would need to be done early. You can sex an embryo at about 60 days.

So you would need to get a semi ferel pony off it’s grazing. You would need to know the date if that pregnancy, which is unlikely to be accurate given a running herd. You would need to scan that semi ferel pony.

All the above make it unlikely to be done, but say you do manage it. The abortions would be indiscriminate. I know us females know we are the superior sex but we do need some males. And to select the best males you need them to be born. Mass abortions would lower the breed standard

 

[Lammy]

My post was about how that isn't going to change untill people are willing to pay more because until people are willing to pay more the people breeding them cannot afford to do it the way I described.

But the issue is no buyer is going to come in and offer 3x the asking price just because. If the breeding was controlled/restricted and there were less ponies on the market there would be a higher demand for the foals and would likely all sell rather than flooding the market with cheap ponies just to ship the ones that don’t make it to slaughter.

These breeders breed this many because they can and because it’s cheap to do so. From their website (theres an up to date one that can be found on google) quite a few of this years crop of foals were bought by private buyers in Germany and Belgium. You can clearly see the 3 that haven’t been sold in time for weaning, one advert each and I haven’t been able to find any more adverts for them on the internet so they were likely only advertised on their own site/FB. I don’t really count that as trying to sell these ponies, the abattoir was the easier, quicker option for the breeder. Which for this year could be forgiven but if that is their usual business plan, to slaughter the ones they don’t sell then they need to reassess how many ponies they are breeding.

Supply far outweighs demand for these ponies and I think the WPCS needs to do something about it.

 

[MagicMelon]

Well I hope the stud is now closed and no longer breeding if clearly there is not enough interest in the foals they are producing? I havent seen it and wouldnt bear to watch it anyway. I cant stand seeing any animal going to slaughter, it makes me sad even seeing the lorries driving past mine with the animals on (I live in a rural, very livestock farm orientated area). I hate my OH's job as he has to go into slaughter houses sometimes for the type of computer hardware he does for work. I no longer eat meat.

I find it extremely sad when horses go for slaughter as in this country, they arent bred for it. I dislike people saying they had a "nice" end as they could have ended up in bad homes, well thats the case for ANY horse, not just the low end. I was gifted an extremely well bred horse (top Olympic SJ bloodlines throughout) who the previous owner would have paid a fortune for, it ended up being saved by some rich kid who got bored of him, chucked him in a dealers yard where he was extremely skinny with bite marks all over him and then they decided to have him PTS! He was saved by someone and gifted to me. So dont think its ONLY the cheap end of horses that end up in bad homes, ANY horse can.

 

[Steerpike]

It may sound harsh but at the end of the day when you have livestock you also have dead stock be it cows, sheep, horses ect

 

[tristar]

the problem with that is that no one is willing to spend £5k on a just backed 12hh pony. So they would still have problems selling them.

until people are willing to pay decent prices for well bred ponies this sort of thing will continue

you can of course use the smaller ones to cross and develop bigger ponies even horses, some of mine have good welsh pony, proper hill bred pedigree about 4 generations ago, and are 16, 2 hh

 

[Hallo2012]

Well I hope the stud is now closed and no longer breeding if clearly there is not enough interest in the foals they are producing? I havent seen it and wouldnt bear to watch it anyway. I cant stand seeing any animal going to slaughter, it makes me sad even seeing the lorries driving past mine with the animals on (I live in a rural, very livestock farm orientated area). I hate my OH's job as he has to go into slaughter houses sometimes for the type of computer hardware he does for work. I no longer eat meat.

I find it extremely sad when horses go for slaughter as in this country, they arent bred for it. I dislike people saying they had a "nice" end as they could have ended up in bad homes, well thats the case for ANY horse, not just the low end. I was gifted an extremely well bred horse (top Olympic SJ bloodlines throughout) who the previous owner would have paid a fortune for, it ended up being saved by some rich kid who got bored of him, chucked him in a dealers yard where he was extremely skinny with bite marks all over him and then they decided to have him PTS! He was saved by someone and gifted to me. So dont think its ONLY the cheap end of horses that end up in bad homes, ANY horse can.

some of the top producing studs send foals to slaughter every year.

if they were all shut down there would be some of the famous names from HOYS etc missing......

not every foal bred can be top quality, whether welsh or wb or tb.

how many sub standard wb foals do you think end up in the meat trade? for every super star stallion sold for millions, hundreds of poor examples are slaughtered.

reality.

edited to add-its sad, but this is not a unique occurrence.

 

[chocolategirl]

These ponies mothers were out in foal a year before Covid hit. I see no reason for the hate this video has produced. They are going for meat, better that than starving, being abused, passed from pillar to post etc. There are no sales For these Ponies to go to this year, many studs are running at a loss, haven’t put their stallions back in or are selling off their stock as gone bust.

I think we are very hypocritical in this country, we eat beef, lamb, chicken etc but the thought of a horse going for meat is horrendous. People have no right to be assaulting studs for actually being responsible and disposing of excess stock.

This post won’t make me popular but the reality of the situation is if they cannot sell them and they cannot feed them then what else are they supposed to do with them? Covid has a lot to answer for this year.

Cognitive dissonance is extremely common, I too am guilty of it ?