Fosse Park Leicester horses

[FionaM12]

Brian, put your hamster away and go to your room until you can play nicely.

Brian? Hamster? Now I'm lost...... :confused3:

 

[lannerch]

Regardless of everything going on in this particular thread it would be interesting to know if everyone who has commented and signed the petition for changes in the law (which in actual fact is what WHW does and has done since it's formation) has also signed the WHW defra petition regarding british horses being transported live to Europe??????? Very sadly I think prob not.
Social media is responsible for so much hysterics and misguided shouting. I believe that there are truly experienced and knowledgable horse people on here but some of posts I read are just plain stupid, especially when it comes to anything welfare or RSPCA.
Everyone has acknowledged that these horses are in less than ideal circumstances, but please, they are living a 5 star lifestyle compared to the majority of of equines in this country. Apart from a photo of a carcass (hugely emotive pic to put on social media) and a horse in water I have not seen a single photo of an equine in a removable body condition. Has anyone?
The flooding- it's rained for 4 months. Yet in the photos there is obvious dry places. The public are inundating the charities with complaints about horses standing in flooded fields because it's ALL over the news and media- yet there are starving ponies in non flooded fields that no one calls about. These are the equines that day after day after day the WHW and RSPCA and other charities go in (using some of the best animal welfare legislation in the world) and try and help, they receive little thanks from the public and when they try to raise awareness by using SOME of these jobs in the media generally get bashed for 'not doing more' or ' left it too late'.
Everybody needs to get real and realise that this is happening to a far greater extreme all over the country and stop complaining about what the charities ARENT doing and help.
Sign every WHW petition, like the FB page. Adopt a horse to make space for others.( if there is no space, there is no space it's very simple).Donate or just respect that everyone is doing the best they can in a very difficult situation. It's called THE HORSE CRISES.

Totally agree , very well said

 

[Ibblebibble]

There will always be animals somewhere that are worse off, the list of welfare issues to be concerned over are endless, sometimes overwhelmingly so. there are weeks when i have deliberately scrolled past pictures of starving horses, flood trapped horses, beaten horses etc etc because i can not cope with seeing them week in week out , knowing that I can do nothing except perhaps sign a petition.
Sometimes a story or situation reaches out and grabs at people and galvanises them into action, the fosse park horses are one such story. some may see it as folk jumping on a bandwagon to make them feel good about themselves, some of us see it as grabbing an opportunity to make a difference and do what we can to get as many people as possible to do the same. singularly we are just one small voice, get 20,000+ people together and that becomes a very big voice that can't be ignored, the fosse park situation has proved that.
social media can cause trouble and strife, no doubt about that, but it can also be used for good, and in this case it has had a good outcome, up until yesterday the welfare agency who had been asked by countless people, over a number of years to act had decided that the horses were not in unsuitable conditions. Then, because of a facebook page, more people became aware, the media got involved and now the welfare agency have decided that perhaps the conditions are unsuitable and some of the horses need to be moved, yes some of the horses there are relatively healthy, younger weaker ones who are being pushed off the hay by stronger herd members are not so good.
In the grand scheme of welfare it's a small event, but for those horses and the people who have bothered to report them to any and every agency they could, it feels bloomin good !

 

[emmalou512]

These horses have been suffering for years. The RSPCA have been called numerous times in the past with reports of neglected horses on the fields but nothing was ever done. After the little mare was pts the RSPCA were quoted as saying that the field was acceptable and that the horses had hay and water (a polluted watering hole with diesel drums). How they could of possibly have said the horses were fine is anyone's guess, as there were a number of youngsters with bad scour, in particlar a little black youngster who judging from the state of him had been scouring for a long time. Improvement orders were not given to owner until an independent vet had been to the scene with agreement of the RSPCA which was a result of pressure put on them from the public, social networking and the media. Now all of a sudden the land is unacceptable. Too right, have u seen the pictures?? That place is a death trap and an equine graveyard full of old bones. These horses might not have looked the worst by their body condition, they're cobs so good doers, but underneath all that fluff they are far from good and tbh the big pregnant mares are going to look better due to the fact that they've been first in line to any hay on offer, whilst the younger weaker horses get nothing. Sorry for rant but really gets on my nerves when people on here talk rubbish about stuff they have no clue about. Let's wait for the official RSPCA statement and the vets reports

 

[MillyMoomie]

Ibblebibble is agree in a small part to some of that, but I use one example to show what saddens me. The fosse park horses FB page has more likes than WHW Hall Farm FB, significantly more. One of only four farms that do such good inspiring work with sick, ruined and damaged equines every day of every week. It is amazing that the farrier chose to highlight the situation of these particular equines but I return to my original point, if only every person who has SUCH an opinion about this case could feel and be actionable in the same way about every other at risk equine.

 

[Ibblebibble]

Ibblebibble is agree in a small part to some of that, but I use one example to show what saddens me. The fosse park horses FB page has more likes than WHW Hall Farm FB, significantly more. One of only four farms that do such good inspiring work with sick, ruined and damaged equines every day of every week. It is amazing that the farrier chose to highlight the situation of these particular equines but I return to my original point, if only every person who has SUCH an opinion about this case could feel and be actionable in the same way about every other at risk equine.

rome wasn't built in a day as the saying goes, perhaps seeing what can be achieved when people work together will motivate some of the followers of the page to speak up for more horses and indeed other animals in need of help. As i said before, sometimes it is so overwhelming you don't know where to start , perhaps this will give people the pointers they need.

 

[emmalou512]

Ibblebibble is agree in a small part to some of that, but I use one example to show what saddens me. The fosse park horses FB page has more likes than WHW Hall Farm FB, significantly more. One of only four farms that do such good inspiring work with sick, ruined and damaged equines every day of every week. It is amazing that the farrier chose to highlight the situation of these particular equines but I return to my original point, if only every person who has SUCH an opinion about this case could feel and be actionable in the same way about every other at risk equine.

And who says we don't?? What this country needs is reform and until we get that from those idiots in governments not a lot will change, but we can try our best to do what little each of us can do individually!!

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

Ibblebibble is agree in a small part to some of that, but I use one example to show what saddens me. The fosse park horses FB page has more likes than WHW Hall Farm FB, significantly more. One of only four farms that do such good inspiring work with sick, ruined and damaged equines every day of every week. It is amazing that the farrier chose to highlight the situation of these particular equines but I return to my original point, if only every person who has SUCH an opinion about this case could feel and be actionable in the same way about every other at risk equine.

There are thousands of people who make a stand against animal cruelty & neglect every day, but it's a disease that can only be cured by new laws. It's the animal welfare act that's inadequate, not the people who give a damn.

 

[LaMooch]

There are thousands of people who make a stand against animal cruelty & neglect every day, but it's a disease that can only be cured by new laws. It's the animal welfare act that's inadequate, not the people who give a damn.

Fully agree with this

 

[Amaranta]

rome wasn't built in a day as the saying goes, perhaps seeing what can be achieved when people work together will motivate some of the followers of the page to speak up for more horses and indeed other animals in need of help. As i said before, sometimes it is so overwhelming you don't know where to start , perhaps this will give people the pointers they need.

Absolutely, the number of people who were completely unaware of the fact that there are meat herds in this country was astounding, these people now know that there are many many herds suffering the same conditions as the Fosse Park horses, this campaign could be a force for good for many many horses, not just those at Fosse.

 

[MillyMoomie]

Again you are all missing my point, which was, sign the defra petition as well as this one. Like every page, not just this one. Etc etc. I'm not trying to argue with you guysz

 

[Ladyinred]

Again you are all missing my point, which was, sign the defra petition as well as this one. Like every page, not just this one. Etc etc. I'm not trying to argue with you guysz

Which would have been a far more succinct and direct way of saying it

 

[Summer pudding]

Absolutely, the number of people who were completely unaware of the fact that there are meat herds in this country was astounding, these people now know that there are many many herds suffering the same conditions as the Fosse Park horses, this campaign could be a force for good for many many horses, not just those at Fosse.

Well said..we have to start somewhere...and carry on so is a FB page required to identify other 'Fosse' type situations perhaps? The more publicity the better to help all those other horses and ponies. Assuming that none of the meat herd horses are passported surely their owners are breaking the law, so regardless of having to go through the slow process of proving the horses are neglected why can't early intervention take place on those grounds...and if there is nowhere to save the horses too, is being culled such a bad fate? Could this provide a wake up call for their owners, no horses, no money. I expect this to be an unpopular suggestion, but the rescue centres are FULL, re-home is not realistic, allowing the horses to continue in misery while everyone 'complies' with the law just prolongs suffering.
Sometimes being pts is an act of kindness.

 

[Ladyinred]

Well said..we have to start somewhere...and carry on so is a FB page required to identify other 'Fosse' type situations perhaps? The more publicity the better to help all those other horses and ponies. Assuming that none of the meat herd horses are passported surely their owners are breaking the law, so regardless of having to go through the slow process of proving the horses are neglected why can't early intervention take place on those grounds...and if there is nowhere to save the horses too, is being culled such a bad fate? Could this provide a wake up call for their owners, no horses, no money. I expect this to be an unpopular suggestion, but the rescue centres are FULL, re-home is not realistic, allowing the horses to continue in misery while everyone 'complies' with the law just prolongs suffering.
Sometimes being pts is an act of kindness.

Agree. Trouble with your passport theory, you are correct, but only if the horses are moved. You can keep a horse without a passport, but you shouldn't buy one, sell one, or move one. Something else that needs putting right methinks.

I would also rather see these horses pts humanely than live their lives in misery and hardship only to eventually come to the same end.

 

[Summer pudding]

Agree. Trouble with your passport theory, you are correct, but only if the horses are moved. You can keep a horse without a passport, but you shouldn't buy one, sell one, or move one. Something else that needs putting right methinks.

I would also rather see these horses pts humanely than live their lives in misery and hardship only to eventually come to the same end.

How refreshing not to have my pts solution not rubbished...I am a total fluffy bunny about animals BUT I really think serious culling would be appropriate in many cases at the moment. Of course this would not be popular with the public without major re-education, and contributions to animal charities would suffer.
Re: passports - good points, but equines can't receive vet attention, inc wormers without a passport can they? Proof that they have not been wormed ever, surely this lack of basic care infringes the Animal Rights Act? All very small points but sufficient and speedy way of nobbling the owners surely.

 

[YorksG]

Can I ask those people who support the idea of a charity being able to remove a persons horse, if the charity believes the horse is not being cared for correctly, what they would do if a charity took their horses on that premise?

 

[LaMooch]

Agree. Trouble with your passport theory, you are correct, but only if the horses are moved. You can keep a horse without a passport, but you shouldn't buy one, sell one, or move one. Something else that needs putting right methinks.

I would also rather see these horses pts humanely than live their lives in misery and hardship only to eventually come to the same end.

Agree with this too.

Passports are not worth the paper they are written on.

Also sometimes horses that have gone through abuse and neglect sometimes never over come these issues and would be better PTS then suffer anymore

 

[Amaranta]

Can I ask those people who support the idea of a charity being able to remove a persons horse, if the charity believes the horse is not being cared for correctly, what they would do if a charity took their horses on that premise?

The aim is not for charities to take random horses from people, BUT should a horse look thin, wormy and is obviously left without food and water for any length of time, that horse should be removed from the ownership of the person neglecting them, this should NOT affect those who do look after their horses. Obviously we do not want horses removed on the strength of one complaint, BUT the situation as it stands is just not good enough.

 

[YorksG]

The aim is not for charities to take random horses from people, BUT should a horse look thin, wormy and is obviously left without food and water for any length of time, that horse should be removed from the ownership of the person neglecting them, this should NOT affect those who do look after their horses. Obviously we do not want horses removed on the strength of one complaint, BUT the situation as it stands is just not good enough.

So if the charity involved happens to be one which disagrees with horses being ridden, or their representative believes horses should be rugged in the rain, what happens then? There are adequate laws, but there is no will,or finance from government to apply it. If there was a petition asking for that I would sign it. I will not sign a petition reqquesting a law which allows for removal of animals without due process and a requirement for testable evidence.

 

[Summer pudding]

The aim is not for charities to take random horses from people, BUT should a horse look thin, wormy and is obviously left without food and water for any length of time, that horse should be removed from the ownership of the person neglecting them, this should NOT affect those who do look after their horses. Obviously we do not want horses removed on the strength of one complaint, BUT the situation as it stands is just not good enough.

Hear, hear...properly cared for horses are never removed...scaremongering?

 

[YorksG]

Hear, hear...properly cared for horses are never removed...scaremongering?

Properly cared for according to who? Currently not, as there are checks aand balances in place. British Law requires testable evidence, not the opion of one agency,which is what the petition is calling for! This petition is actually asking for a fundamentl change to our legal system. I ask again would you be happy for a child to be removed from home on only the say so of one agency, because if the rule of law is changed for one sector, it allows it to change for others.

 

[Amaranta]

So if the charity involved happens to be one which disagrees with horses being ridden, or their representative believes horses should be rugged in the rain, what happens then? There are adequate laws, but there is no will,or finance from government to apply it. If there was a petition asking for that I would sign it. I will not sign a petition reqquesting a law which allows for removal of animals without due process and a requirement for testable evidence.

Oh for goodness sake! Obviously we would not want laws that would allow any random charity to do this, it's not rocket science! There would have to be signs of neglect and they are NOT difficult to spot. There is too much leeway given to those who deliberately neglect and abuse their horses, what happened at Fosse Park has shown that decent people will not put up with this anymore!

Horses appear to be bottom of the welfare chain - this has to change and the actions of the people at Fosse Park yesterday went some way to set a precedent.

 

[Moomin1]

Amaranta you clearly misunderstand the current legislation. The law we currently have in is very effective in both ensuring welfare of animals and protecting innocent people because it has measures in place which need to be followed in order for animals to be removed. These horses didn't need to he removed as a matter of emergency, they were not deemed as suffering by a vet, therefore time is given for improvements to be made and of they aren't THEN the horses get removed. We cannot reasonably change that, because it would ran nobody, whatever the circumstances they are in, would have a chance to rectify their wrong doings before prosecution ensues. That is not a fair law IMO.

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

All laws are ineffective if the relevant authorities don't uphold them. That carcass had been left there for weeks if not months. It's a bloody disgrace. Previous posters have claimed that numerous complaints had been made regarding these horses and ****** all had been done to improve their predicament. I cannot believe the poor state of the paddocks and the horses has occurred in the last week or since the emotive photo of the carcass was published. I don't want to join the bandwagon of rubbishing the RSPCA but my experiences with them are not positive either.

 

[Amaranta]

Amaranta you clearly misunderstand the current legislation. The law we currently have in is very effective in both ensuring welfare of animals and protecting innocent people because it has measures in place which need to be followed in order for animals to be removed. These horses didn't need to he removed as a matter of emergency, they were not deemed as suffering by a vet, therefore time is given for improvements to be made and of they aren't THEN the horses get removed. We cannot reasonably change that, because it would ran nobody, whatever the circumstances they are in, would have a chance to rectify their wrong doings before prosecution ensues. That is not a fair law IMO.

I am very aware of the current legislation, I am also aware that it is NOT effective, especially so in the case of equids.

Again you are wrong in this case, other than attending the filly stuck in the water last Saturday, the RSPCA attended the other horses only after the video had appeared on social media, (this is after people had for many YEARS been complaining to them) on inspecting the horses, they initially said the owner had done nothing wrong and the field was adequate, their own vet deemed the horses to be fine, although they did ask for some improvements to be carried out, this all happened on Tuesday of this last week. After a small demonstration by local people, an independent vet attended these horses on Thursday, he deemed the field completely unsuitable and that the very thin youngsters and the pregnant mares MUST be moved AS A MATTER OF URGENCY (still with the RSPCA monitoring of course), all the horses are now removed to more suitable grazing. The RSPCA were completely wrong in their initial assessment and they have admitted as much, they made an almost tearful statement yesterday in front of the bigger demonstration.

I completely agree that people have to have a chance to improve, BUT this owner is another Jamie Grey, he has previous for exactly the same thing, now you tell me why he should be given yet another chance. THIS IS WHAT HAS TO CHANGE, I am not for one minute suggesting that charities should not give a second chance to people who may not know any better but people like this owner do not deserve a second chance.

The law MUST be changed to give these horses, bred for meat, the same protection as cows, sheep and other agricultural animals, there are thousands of them all over the country living in the same sort of conditions and I for one am very glad that someone has decided to stand up and be counted.

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

I am very aware of the current legislation, I am also aware that it is NOT effective, especially so in the case of equids.

Again you are wrong in this case, other than attending the filly stuck in the water last Saturday, the RSPCA attended the other horses only after the video had appeared on social media, (this is after people had for many YEARS been complaining to them) on inspecting the horses, they initially said the owner had done nothing wrong and the field was adequate, their own vet deemed the horses to be fine, although they did ask for some improvements to be carried out, this all happened on Tuesday of this last week. After a small demonstration by local people, an independent vet attended these horses on Thursday, he deemed the field completely unsuitable and that the very thin youngsters and the pregnant mares MUST be moved AS A MATTER OF URGENCY (still with the RSPCA monitoring of course), all the horses are now removed to more suitable grazing. The RSPCA were completely wrong in their initial assessment and they have admitted as much, they made an almost tearful statement yesterday in front of the bigger demonstration.

I completely agree that people have to have a chance to improve, BUT this owner is another Jamie Grey, he has previous for exactly the same thing, now you tell me why he should be given yet another chance. THIS IS WHAT HAS TO CHANGE, I am not for one minute suggesting that charities should not give a second chance to people who may not know any better but people like this owner do not deserve a second chance.

The law MUST be changed to give these horses, bred for meat, the same protection as cows, sheep and other agricultural animals, there are thousands of them all over the country living in the same sort of conditions and I for one am very glad that someone has decided to stand up and be counted.

Well, ruddy, said.

 

[YorksG]

I am very aware of the current legislation, I am also aware that it is NOT effective, especially so in the case of equids.

Again you are wrong in this case, other than attending the filly stuck in the water last Saturday, the RSPCA attended the other horses only after the video had appeared on social media, (this is after people had for many YEARS been complaining to them) on inspecting the horses, they initially said the owner had done nothing wrong and the field was adequate, their own vet deemed the horses to be fine, although they did ask for some improvements to be carried out, this all happened on Tuesday of this last week. After a small demonstration by local people, an independent vet attended these horses on Thursday, he deemed the field completely unsuitable and that the very thin youngsters and the pregnant mares MUST be moved AS A MATTER OF URGENCY (still with the RSPCA monitoring of course), all the horses are now removed to more suitable grazing. The RSPCA were completely wrong in their initial assessment and they have admitted as much, they made an almost tearful statement yesterday in front of the bigger demonstration.

I completely agree that people have to have a chance to improve, BUT this owner is another Jamie Grey, he has previous for exactly the same thing, now you tell me why he should be given yet another chance. THIS IS WHAT HAS TO CHANGE, I am not for one minute suggesting that charities should not give a second chance to people who may not know any better but people like this owner do not deserve a second chance.

The law MUST be changed to give these horses, bred for meat, the same protection as cows, sheep and other agricultural animals, there are thousands of them all over the country living in the same sort of conditions and I for one am very glad that someone has decided to stand up and be counted.

The law as it stands does offer the same protection to horses, the law does not require change, the political will to fund the appropriate publlic bodies to apply the law, is what is needed.

 

[Moomin1]

The law as it stands does offer the same protection to horses, the law does not require change, the political will to fund the appropriate publlic bodies to apply the law, is what is needed.

Agree.
Amaranta claims to know the current legislation, yet harps on saying that horses bred for meat don't have the same protection under the
law, clearly showing she has little knowledge at all.

 

[Amaranta]

Agree.
Amaranta claims to know the current legislation, yet harps on saying that horses bred for meat don't have the same protection under the
law, clearly showing she has little knowledge at all.

Horses bred for meat do not have AGRICULTURAL status, you know damn well that is what I mean, you really are a pompous ****

 

[ozpoz]

Moomin, if you are correct, then the recent mailshot sent out by WHW describing the departure of meat equines from our ports UNCHECKED,for health, distance, microchips is probably nonsense?