Grand National 2012- Carnage! What did everyone think?

[monkeybum13]

If you really don't see the difference between a horse and a child, you really need to get some perspective.

These are racehorses, bred and trained to do a job. It is sad when a horse is killed in any discipline but there are far more pressing welfare issues in the horse world.

For what it's worth, I thought Neptune Collonges was magnificent - what a performance!

Again, well put

 

[Marydoll]

A long time ago when the National had huge fences, before all the modifications, the horses that ran in the race were National Hunt horses, they were more like middle weights. We had NH stallions to put on our substantial mares, not many "dual pupose" stallions about then, some could have up to 9ins of bone. They were not speed machines they had staminer and the differance between chaser and flat horse was clear to anyone with a pair of eyes. The course was a fair test, the pace was slower and they hacked into the fences got into the bottom of them and jumped. Sadly we have now a Park type course with 40 runners all going flat out. I dont think we will see less carnage all the time we have horses racing in the GN that are flat bred.

A very good point MC

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

And that says it all about why it continues as is...... Greed and a complete disregard for the horse and jockeys safety as long as someones pockets are lined.

Exactly.

My pockets are currently lined with pound notes. Aint life sweet?

 

[Paint Me Proud]

whether it is right or wrong to hold the grand national the loss of two magnificent horses is, and always will be, a sad waste.

I especially feel for the owners of According To Pete.

 

[Double_choc_lab]

GG Bells are you arguing with yourself? You say you don't agree with the "just a horse" and you thought John Hales quote was great YET - he did lose a horse in National Hunt and he has continued with racing and even put a horse in the National.

 

[Merrymoles]

It is very sad when horses are killed in racing ... any race, but there wouldn't be any racehorses if people didn't race them. The death of Syncronized, especially, is going to be 'publicity gold' for the animal rights protesters.

Synchronised and According to Pete were my favourites (I like white faces) and I'm gutted that they were PTS but agree with sally259, racehorses wouldn't exist if people didn't race them. They are not pets, they are working animals and when things go wrong they get the best veterinary attention immediately, whether that means PTS or not. I'm fairly sure that I would rather see one of mine break a leg in a race and be PTS immediately than hang around waiting for hours for a vet after an accident elsewhere.
My view, for what it's worth, is that they went off too fast after the delays at the start (it was possible to see that a fair few were pretty wound up), that the race should not have waited for AP to remount and that it's time to get rid of the tape and let anyone who gets a bad start sort it out during the race.

 

[Lizzie66]

Also...have to add, and excuse me for offending anyone here.

But the whole 'it's just a horse' thing kind of makes me feel a bit sick.

It's an animal that gives its all for you, runs its heart our for you, jumps for you and it dies for you, and for your money...you just get another one?? Wish I could be as at ease as that!

But it is just a horse. That doesn't mean that if it is your horse and it died you wouldn't care or miss it terribly, but people on this forum are getting upset about an animal that they don't know.

What about all the cows, sheep, horses that go for slaughter should we be wailing and weeping for them as well ?

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

You mean you've got friends?

Of course I have friends, what sort of friend wouldn't pay for their friends to go on bi-annual holidays to the Caribbean (all costs included) and weekly outings to Mahiki?

 

[Hells Bells]

GG Bells are you arguing with yourself? You say you don't agree with the "just a horse" and you thought John Hales quote was great YET - he did lose a horse in National Hunt and he has continued with racing and even put a horse in the National.

To be honest...YES!!

I think the quote sums my view up well, but am fully aware he then went on to enter Neptune in the GN...but regardless of what he's done, I like the quote

 

[justforfun]

I bet on the national each year yet cringe when i watch the race and cry when I see the fallers.
I think so many people are forgetting the hard work put into all the horses and what wonderful condition they are all in.
The owners love their horses, consideration should be given to those who have lost their horses today, no-one wants their horse to be killed or injured yet people on here are making them out to be monsters.
Rather a racehorse have a fit healthy life cut short from racing than a fat, overfed,bored pony stabled all its life for a once a week spin round the block on a sunday, live a dull life for 30 yrs.

 

[A Guilding]

A long time ago when the National had huge fences, before all the modifications, the horses that ran in the race were National Hunt horses, they were more like middle weights. We had NH stallions to put on our substantial mares, not many "dual pupose" stallions about then, some could have up to 9ins of bone. They were not speed machines they had staminer and the differance between chaser and flat horse was clear to anyone with a pair of eyes. The course was a fair test, the pace was slower and they hacked into the fences got into the bottom of them and jumped. Sadly we have now a Park type course with 40 runners all going flat out. I dont think we will see less carnage all the time we have horses racing in the GN that are flat bred.

Agreed, you occasionally get great jumpers, Chris Maude on Young Hustler and Norman Williamson on Master Oats stick in my mind but they are from a few years back.

 

[Moggy in Manolos]

A long time ago when the National had huge fences, before all the modifications, the horses that ran in the race were National Hunt horses, they were more like middle weights. We had NH stallions to put on our substantial mares, not many "dual pupose" stallions about then, some could have up to 9ins of bone. They were not speed machines they had staminer and the differance between chaser and flat horse was clear to anyone with a pair of eyes. The course was a fair test, the pace was slower and they hacked into the fences got into the bottom of them and jumped. Sadly we have now a Park type course with 40 runners all going flat out. I dont think we will see less carnage all the time we have horses racing in the GN that are flat bred.

Very good point MC, logical and so true

 

[Mitchyden]

I'm not sure if this has been said because I only read the first six pages! If you look at the statistics, there were less deaths before they started tampering with the fences. The horses had to slow down and jump the fences when they were bigger instead of going flat out and jumping at speed. The ground I think also had a contributing factor as once again it was very fast going.

 

[horseluver4eva]

im not posting anything else after this, but do you think horses dont have feelings? its just a act of animal cruelty. in my eyes people and animals shouldnt be treated differently in regards to fairness, comparison to a child whats the problem, both need cared for and have emotions and feelings, i would choose a horse over a person any day, when do you see them going behind your back.. so people who are for the grand national are saying basically that even though horses die, come away with serious injuries and jockeys are killed it doesnt matter, its fun to watch. i used to love this forum thinking people had the same love for horses as me and understood them, but obviously not. im disgusted and am no longer going to use this forum.

 

[Gingermonkey]

Well said MerryCrisis. Steeplechasers seem so much finer these days.

I have watched, had a flutter and enjoyed The National from small with my old Dad and now my own Boys. However after today I am actually questioning my motivations for watching it in the future. I am no bunny hugger, I honestly believed I had Red Rum at the bottom of my Garden.

Do you think that the fact that Sychronised was focussed on at the start and we felt a bond with him after the dumping of AP McCoy? Or the fact that we now see the Tarps so clearly through enhanced camerawork? Could it be the in-depth TV coverage, good and bad, is what is highlighting the tragedy of the Lost & Injured Horses and making us question our reasons for 'enjoying' the race? When before it was just a footnote at the end of the news or in the Papers on Sunday?

Not really sure whether the National should or could be changed without losing what is the Soul of the Race? I am in a dilemma...RIP and my thoughts are with their owners and connections.

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

Hilarious. I thought my sense of humour was inappropriate, but...

What can I say? Not only am I a greedy bitch, but I also lack appropriateness. As long as I can afford the high life, the suffering of others is irrelevent. I shall continue to live the dream.......................

 

[dressagelove]

im not posting anything else after this, but do you think horses dont have feelings? its just a act of animal cruelty. in my eyes people and animals shouldnt be treated differently in regards to fairness, comparison to a child whats the problem, both need cared for and have emotions and feelings, i would choose a horse over a person any day, when do you see them going behind your back.. so people who are for the grand national are saying basically that even though horses die, come away with serious injuries and jockeys are killed it doesnt matter, its fun to watch. i used to love this forum thinking people had the same love for horses as me and understood them, but obviously not. im disgusted and am no longer going to use this forum.

Don't stop posting horseluver, I agree with you. Am losing respect for some posters on here who profess to be horse lovers, its sad.

 

[FayeFriesian]

For those banging on about the footballer - He was in another country. You can hardly compare or expect people to know about it when its hardly in the news (just had to search on BBC Sport and its not the front line news on there either!).

I personally think that making the fences smaller would remove the deaths. These horses are tired, and the falling is what causes all these problems. So what if they go faster? at least all 4 legs are on the ground!. Make them smaller and make it a race about stamina (with 30 jumps of a resonable high thrown in).

I feel sorry for those horses, not their owners/trainers - they knew full well what could or would happen.

 

[Hullabaloo]

im not posting anything else after this, but do you think horses dont have feelings? its just a act of animal cruelty. in my eyes people and animals shouldnt be treated differently in regards to fairness, comparison to a child whats the problem, both need cared for and have emotions and feelings, i would choose a horse over a person any day, when do you see them going behind your back.. so people who are for the grand national are saying basically that even though horses die, come away with serious injuries and jockeys are killed it doesnt matter, its fun to watch. i used to love this forum thinking people had the same love for horses as me and understood them, but obviously not. im disgusted and am no longer going to use this forum.

I love horses. To me they are magnificent animals with a purpose, could be racing, eventing or a bit of hacking. How a horse is treated during its life is far more important to me than the manner of its death.
Do not assume there is only one kind of love of horses.

 

[L&M]

I have not read all the replies but am relieved to see that other HHO's were upset by today's race.

I hunt and support NH racing in general but find the carnage of the GN too much too bear - when I heard Synchronised had been put down I cried. My 9yr old son watched it for the first time and his comment was that the race was 'barbaric' and I have to agree.

When Synchronised won the Gold cup the field size was much smaller and the horses had plenty of space to negotiate the obstacles. No horse got injured and it was a fantastic spectacle of horses at their most natural and best.

I do not see how any one who is a true horse lover could support this particular race and have vowed never to watch it again.

 

[intouch]

Would that there were more owners like the Dutchess of Westminster who refused to run Arkle in the National, and kept him for many years in retirement. THis is the first year I haven't watched it, just cant take it any more, although I love watching the horses. Glad I didn't.

 

[Lizzie66]

I personally think that making the fences smaller would remove the deaths. These horses are tired, and the falling is what causes all these problems. So what if they go faster? at least all 4 legs are on the ground!. Make them smaller and make it a race about stamina (with 30 jumps of a resonable high thrown in).

You are ignoring the facts to fit your opinion. The majority of the falls are at the beginning when the horses aren't tired and are travelling faster. On the second round when they are more tired horses are more likely to refuse or be pulled up.

In past times, when the fences were bigger, there were less fatalities and significantly more runners. Now this could be that the ground was softer, that the horses has more bone, or that they were going more slowly as the fences were bigger !

Possibly a ruling that a horse must have completed at least 3 steeplechases of 3m or more and must not have fallen in any race in the current season could be brought in as a qualifying standard.

 

[shortstuff99]

I too am saddened by the deaths of two horses, and never feel it is 'just a horse' but in response to some posts, horses don't have human emotions as much as I wish they did they just don't! But I think that this means what we sometimes make them do/treat them is worse as they have no concept of it. X

 

[Flame_]

I'll read all this later. Great finish and a really deserving winner.

Yes to reducing the field, I think to a maximum of thirty. Lots of fallers taking others down with them today. Such a shame to lose two horses, and it really hit home after having seen how each one was so important to its connections in the build up.

 

[Equilibrium Ireland]

Arkle wasn't around for too many years. He was 13 and couldn't stay sound as a pasture puff due to crippling arthritis.

Terri

 

[MrsB]

I haven't read all of the replies, but I have only once watched the GN, when I was a little girl - can't remember what year, but it was in the 70's and I was heartbroken and cried at the number of horses that fell and didn't get up.

For that reason, I have never, ever watched it again.... I do not bet on it, never have and never will. For me, this race (if you can call it that, more like torture for some) is all about the glory & money for the trainers, owners and jockeys... the horses' welfare is low down the list... or why would they enter them into it, knowing the dangers ahead that their horse could be PTS?

Would also like to add that racing on the flat - no problem. I don't have a problem with racing, it's what horses are fantastic at and also jumping, but for me, I cannot watch it....

 

[140397RJO12E]

I felt physically sick watching it this year, I'm sure I saw one horse galloping off with a damaged leg at one point and my heart was in my mouth with every fence after the first fallers.

It wasn't pleasant having to see the field go past the screened off fifth fence with everyone cheering them knowing a stricken horse was behind them.

I also thought that Claire Balding seemed upset at the end too.

I totally agree, i think it was According to Pete that i saw get back up and carry on galloping (bless his heart) and his leg looked 'floppy' (in want of a better word) so sad

 

[Charem]

When I watch dressage I hope the horses don't spook or play up.
When I watch sj I hope the horses leave the poles up.
When I watch xc I hope the horses don't fall.
When I watch the National I hope no one dies...

I love racing, I have worked in racing. For those who have said that the connections don't care about the horses I can assure you there will be some very heartbroken people tonight, especially the lads and lasses who care for the horses like they were their own. But I struggle to support a race where it is given that number of horses WILL fall and as such the likelyhood of a fatality is VERY high. I had money on both According To Pete and Syncronized. I won't be putting money on the race again.

RIP boys, thoughts are with your connections.

 

[Always Henesy]

Totally and utterly agree with every wise word you have written... to those who said the 'old gits stuck in their ways' maybe we should take a few tips of the older generation...

Abso-bloomin-lutely!

I totally agree....not that MC is an old bird

 

[AdorableAlice]

I usually love horse racing so was looking forward to the GN today. But it was horrific! Far too many fallers, being realistic I was hoping for only three or less. And Synchronised and According to Pete being PTS is such a shame for owners and fans.
Surely it has to be made safer? I realise this gets said every year but today just seemed horrendous. Just a thought, did it seem to anyone else that the brush on the fences was slowing the horses in mid air who caught their hooves in it? Would they have slid over more birch style fences more easily?

Seconded, the top dressing on the fences seems to bring the horses down, it is something I have thought the case for years.

Its a bad day for NH racing and even the industry is worried, Cornilius Lycett's comment on Sky Sport says it all.