Grand National 2012- Carnage! What did everyone think?

[Regandal]

The GN is only one race. Horses fall/are PTS at meetings all over the country - there's rarely an outcry. Where I live, we are surrounded by NH training yards. The horses are looked after to a very high standard - in order to do a job. I agree with the poster who commented about cows, sheep etc, raised for slaughter. Don't they have feelings? How many of us are now tucking in to meat in some shape or form? Also, most of the advances in treating horses are pioneered by the racing industry, which benefits everyone.

 

[Happy Horse]

I wouldn't want to see the race cancelled. Horses love to run, it is their herding instinct. Try getting 700KG of horse to do something it doesn't want to do. It won't happen. It is very sad when they die or are fatally injured but they are treated within seconds. More horses die in field accidents and wait 30+ minutes for a vet. The horses in the National live like kings and are trained for the race, vetted before the race and are fit to run.

What I would like to see is a reduction in numbers. I feel it is the number of horses contribute as fallers bring down others particularly in the early stages.

People who say horses don't enjoy racing, I am sure they enjoy it far more than a cow enjoys a long trip in a lorry to a slaughterhouse and yet I doubt the majority of people against the National are vegetarians.

 

[mulledwhine]

Wow blazing saddles, I thought I had dine well winning £104, I should get a bit braver with my gambling

Didn't see the race as I was jump judging, but when I was told if the deaths, and that synchronised had dumped McCoy, my instant reply was I would have pulled him out

It is sad, but life is aout risks, I'm a way these horses do choose to race, so many others dint have their heart in it, how many of you gave the pleasure of owning the ones that said NO

 

[mulledwhine]

Apologies for SP and no sense sentences, can't edit on my phone

 

[tallyho!]

This is a different argument. I am sure if you posted on the slaughter of newly born male calves, battery hens, pigs etc equal debate would ensue.... there are millions campaigning to change animal welfare... I am one of the millions. I am a BUNNY HUGGER!!!!!!!!!

Hence why I make comment on this hazardous practice of racing, whether it be GN or not. If bullfighting laws can be changed (adhered to, different story), so can ridiculous races like this one. Also on my list is the Big Lick. Reigning. Laminitis. Navicular.

Cannot believe you try an justify racing based on the slaughter of animals for meat. Because it's so obviously the same thing.

 

[Dirty_D]

Very sad loss

I am in no way condoning this but my only comment is that the Grand National is the 'Peoples Race', if they had decided not to run Syncronised after his escape before the race then there would have been an outcry from the general public, i assume media pressure would have a huge impact on whether the trainer ran or not. If he was not so well known he could have pulled out no issues, but a bookies favourite/Gold cup winner . . . seems your tied - and no one could predict what happened, escape or no escape he could have fallen regardless.

I watched heart in mouth and i feel more and more uncomfortable each year watching it.

 

[Marydoll]

Exactly.

My pockets are currently lined with pound notes. Aint life sweet?

Not for the horse that gave its life so you can belittle it on here, greed on its worst form

 

[thatsmygirl]

I haven't read any off the comments on here but I enjoyed the race

 

[Jesstickle]

But it is just a horse. That doesn't mean that if it is your horse and it died you wouldn't care or miss it terribly, but people on this forum are getting upset about an animal that they don't know.

What about all the cows, sheep, horses that go for slaughter should we be wailing and weeping for them as well ?

I think perhaps people have misunderstood what I mean by 'just a horse' Lizzie66 hasn't though. I love my horses very much, fret over them, pander to them and enjoy every aspect of them, including their odd little characters. If I only had them to ride I certainly wouldn't still have my Nitty pony. However, they are just an animal at the end of the day. Hardly on a par with my children (not that I have any yet) or my mother or brother.

I am no more going to get upset about the death of a horse in the National than I am about every pig, cow, sheep and chicken raised in intensive farming in this country, sent to slaughter and then eaten. I value all animals on a pretty level playing field and am constantly baffled by the way horses are somehow elevated about cows in terms of 'rights'

Horses don't feel more than any farm animal and we treat them abysmally at times. Did you know a pig is roughly as intelligent as a dog? Would you let your pet dogs be treated the way we treat pigs reared for meat? Honestly? If the answer is no, but you still eat supermarket pork you have absolutely grounds to witter on about the deaths of two horses in racing.

Because I choose to take a realistic view on the way humans use all animals to suit them doesn't mean I mistreat my horses or am an unfit owner. Or at least I don't think it does.

Perhaps someone could explain to me how they justify wearing leather shoes, using leather tack, eating meat and drinking milk (unless all is properly, ethically sourced) and then get up in arms about the death of two horses who have ultimately lead a nice life and have been dispatched pretty damn quick. Those horses were the lucky ones, compared to your standard farm chicken or pig they had it easy.

 

[ribbons]

Justforfun touched on exactly what I was thinking.
The national is a very dangerous race, run by brave horses and gutsy jockeys, and it is very sad when life is lost, but it's quick and these horses are in the peak of health until that moment.
Aside from the hundreds of ordinary horses pts by vets every year due to accidents either ridden or in their fields, I bet if we had figures from vets on the amount that lose their lives because of owners loving them so much they overfeed them, over rug them, under work them, pamper them like pet poodles and have no idea of the long slow day after day of suffering they are causing until it's skin problems are driving it mad and it's in agony with laminitis and has to be pts.
Obviously there are many at the other end of the scale as well who suffer at the hands of cruel neglectful lazy owners. Suffering day in day out.
As I said, the loss of horses in the national is very sad, but it is a very quick end, and the numbers are miniscule compared to those that die at the hands of the every day horse owner.

 

[Ceris Comet]

Yes ...Claire Balding was upset ..bet she will be back next year .don't forget uncle was a trainer..

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

Not for the horse that gave its life so you can belittle it on here, greed on its worst form

Not belittling, just attempting (rather unsuccessfully, it appears) to illustrate how those involved with horse racing, whether breeding, training or betting are either doing so for the money or the kudos. I didn't bet on the GN, can't bear it or the sanctimonious twaddle that come after a fatality.

 

[AmyMay]

Of course she will ceris comet. It's her job....

 

[amandap]

Those horses were the lucky ones, compared to your standard farm chicken or pig they had it easy.

Oh, that's all right then!

I've just read a comment that Synchronised died a noble death! My blood is up.

Re "old gits" read old fashioned values in my case. I'm an old git myself.

ps. Comparing food animals to entertainment animals is not 100% valid imo and is another huge bone of contention for me personally.

 

[guido16]

I havent read posts. But, I dont watch the race because I dont want to watch horses fall to their deaths. It sickens me. However I dont condone racing. I just make a choice not to watch it.

 

[StormyMoments]

I *think* the screen was up around a jockey

Does any one find it strange how they never really comment on how the jockeys are? Do we just have to assume that all are OK unless we hear otherwise?

i think what you have to remember is that the jockeys have a choice - they choose to race and get paid alot for it they know the dangers - what choice does the horse have it doesnt have once it cant just decide once day its no longer gonna race, im affraid that is why you dont hear much about them also they are all taught how to fall off so less injuries aanywho

 

[Jesstickle]

Oh, that's all right then!

I've just read a comment that Synchronised died a noble death! My blood is up.

Re "old gits"

No, it isn't alright. I'm not saying it's alright. I think it's very sad. What I am saying is that people should try not to by hypocrites. I don't do nearly enough about animal welfare. I am informed about all of it and yet I still don't boycott supermarket meat etc. But at least I recognise that and can admit it. And I know why I think it.

Because I try and explain that doesn't make me a bad person. It makes me honest.

ETS: why is it different? You don't need to eat meat. You do it through choice. Both food and entertainment are covered under the same cloud of animal exploitation by humans. Why does it annoy you to compare them?

 

[Paint Me Proud]

just watched the race again and can anyone confirm if it is Synchronised who is a loose horse that jumps a fence at 02:45 in this video here - if it is is it possible this is when his injury was sustained, looks a heavy stumble over that jump as he is keeping good pace with the 'herd' until then.

 

[Evadiva1514]

When I watch dressage I hope the horses don't spook or play up.
When I watch sj I hope the horses leave the poles up.
When I watch xc I hope the horses don't fall.
When I watch the National I hope no one dies...

I love racing, I have worked in racing. For those who have said that the connections don't care about the horses I can assure you there will be some very heartbroken people tonight, especially the lads and lasses who care for the horses like they were their own. But I struggle to support a race where it is given that number of horses WILL fall and as such the likelyhood of a fatality is VERY high. I had money on both According To Pete and Syncronized. I won't be putting money on the race again.

RIP boys, thoughts are with your connections.

Agree whole heartedly with everything you have said!!!

 

[digitalangel]

Heres another perspective - why does the GN have to be such a dangerous race? lots of horses, big fences, long distance...cant it be just as big a race if it was on the flat? I hail from Melbourne, Australia, where we have the Melbourne Cup which we even have a bank holiday for!!! Its a far bigger race, and it enjoys just as much if not more fanfare, and horses rarely fall and die.. it doesnt have to be over jumps to be exciting.

Just sayin!

 

[Dab]

Justforfun touched on exactly what I was thinking.
The national is a very dangerous race, run by brave horses and gutsy jockeys, and it is very sad when life is lost, but it's quick and these horses are in the peak of health until that moment.
Aside from the hundreds of ordinary horses pts by vets every year due to accidents either ridden or in their fields, I bet if we had figures from vets on the amount that lose their lives because of owners loving them so much they overfeed them, over rug them, under work them, pamper them like pet poodles and have no idea of the long slow day after day of suffering they are causing until it's skin problems are driving it mad and it's in agony with laminitis and has to be pts.
Obviously there are many at the other end of the scale as well who suffer at the hands of cruel neglectful lazy owners. Suffering day in day out.
As I said, the loss of horses in the national is very sad, but it is a very quick end, and the numbers are miniscule compared to those that die at the hands of the every day horse owner.

^^^^^I've been saying the same thing for sometime. But it does seem that some horse owners can not see what is in the mirror when they hold it up to themselves.

The 10's of thousand of horses that go for slaughter to the continent suffering needlessly long journeys, with no water, breaks or feed. Many of these are horses that have been discarded by 'hobby' owners. Please consider saving some compassion and passion for these horses.

Why does the National inspire such passion when a couple of horses die, but the WHW struggle to get this kind of support to try and change the rules about horse transportation across Europe? Is it just me that thinks things are slightly askew here?

 

[SusannaF]

Oh, that's all right then!
ps. Comparing food animals to entertainment animals is not 100% valid imo and is another huge bone of contention for me personally.

As I said earlier in the thread, we eat animals and animal products out of choice. We live in an era in which we could all be vegan and avoid using leather etc. We choose to consume animals because we like it.

Be honest with yourself. It's not the same thing as condoning abuse - it's avoiding being a hypocrite.

I'm wildly inconsistent. I wouldn't eat horse meat but by God I'm sure that plenty of animals have had miserable lives so that I could have a salami sandwich hundreds of times in my life. Ditto my pile of leather shoes and boots.

Do I worry about intensive factory farming? Yes, it's disgusting. Did I avoid watching the National? Yes. But can I condemn it out of hand when I'm totally implicated in the suffering and fore-shortened lives of other animals? Not really, no. Unless I want to be a full-fat hypocrite.

 

[Flame_]

I think perhaps people have misunderstood what I mean by 'just a horse' Lizzie66 hasn't though. I love my horses very much, fret over them, pander to them and enjoy every aspect of them, including their odd little characters. If I only had them to ride I certainly wouldn't still have my Nitty pony. However, they are just an animal at the end of the day. Hardly on a par with my children (not that I have any yet) or my mother or brother.

I am no more going to get upset about the death of a horse in the National than I am about every pig, cow, sheep and chicken raised in intensive farming in this country, sent to slaughter and then eaten. I value all animals on a pretty level playing field and am constantly baffled by the way horses are somehow elevated about cows in terms of 'rights'

Horses don't feel more than any farm animal and we treat them abysmally at times. Did you know a pig is roughly as intelligent as a dog? Would you let your pet dogs be treated the way we treat pigs reared for meat? Honestly? If the answer is no, but you still eat supermarket pork you have absolutely grounds to witter on about the deaths of two horses in racing.

Because I choose to take a realistic view on the way humans use all animals to suit them doesn't mean I mistreat my horses or am an unfit owner. Or at least I don't think it does.

Perhaps someone could explain to me how they justify wearing leather shoes, using leather tack, eating meat and drinking milk (unless all is properly, ethically sourced) and then get up in arms about the death of two horses who have ultimately lead a nice life and have been dispatched pretty damn quick. Those horses were the lucky ones, compared to your standard farm chicken or pig they had it easy.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on all the hysterics over a couple of horses deaths. CPTrayes asked if you would run your horse with that level of risk - I wouldn't. None of my horses would face that danger because it would make me too sad to go home without them. But is it OK to risk an animal's life? Yes, of course it is as long as its OK to march healthy young animals off to certain death when it suits us, and to build roads knowing lots of wildlife will be flattened. The horses don't know they're in danger, do they? And their last memories are running with a herd like horses do.

It would make for a much happier event for everyone involved though if they can find ways to make it less dangerous for horses and riders.

 

[vickyb]

Paint me proud - Racing Post states that synchronised got his injury while running loose, not in the fall at Bechers, so you are right in your observation on that footage. Also I don't think Claire Balding will be back - aren't Channel 4 taking over the GN next year?

 

[Honeylight]

A long time ago when the National had huge fences, before all the modifications, the horses that ran in the race were National Hunt horses, they were more like middle weights. We had NH stallions to put on our substantial mares, not many "dual pupose" stallions about then, some could have up to 9ins of bone. They were not speed machines they had staminer and the differance between chaser and flat horse was clear to anyone with a pair of eyes. The course was a fair test, the pace was slower and they hacked into the fences got into the bottom of them and jumped. Sadly we have now a Park type course with 40 runners all going flat out. I dont think we will see less carnage all the time we have horses racing in the GN that are flat bred.

I have said this many times.
Poor Synchronised was by Saddlers Wells & inbred to Hail to Reason for instance. Quite a few NH horses look pretty nowadays. Not that many looked like proper jumpers.

 

[Wagtail]

Not for the horse that gave its life so you can belittle it on here, greed on its worst form

She's joking.

 

[Paint Me Proud]

Paint me proud - Racing Post states that synchronised got his injury while running loose, not in the fall at Bechers, so you are right in your observation on that footage.

Now that is even more of a shame, in this instance with Synchronised he had every opportunity to pull up, run wide etc but he chose to jump those fences, he obviously enjoyed doing so and that was his downfall.

Had he just not jumped that fence he would still be alive. Real shame.

 

[scrunchie]

^^^^^I've been saying the same thing for sometime. But it does seem that some horse owners can not see what is in the mirror when they hold it up to themselves.

The 10's of thousand of horses that go for slaughter to the continent suffering needlessly long journeys, with no water, breaks or feed. Many of these are horses that have been discarded by 'hobby' owners. Please consider saving some compassion and passion for these horses.

Why does the National inspire such passion when a couple of horses die, but the WHW struggle to get this kind of support to try and change the rules about horse transportation across Europe? Is it just me that thinks things are slightly askew here?

Completely agree with the above and Ribbons' post.

That said, I'm not sure if we'll be watching again next year. I felt crap after last year, I feel worse after this year, especially as the kids are getting older and understand why the screens are up. My youngest had tears in her eyes as she asked if her horse had died, and my father was pretty gutted that According to Pete had been PTS.

My very first post on this forum was about GN last year when I asked if reducing the amount of runners would make the race safer. Last year most of the people that replied to me said no.

As far as I can see, they keep tinkering with fences and it's not making a blind bit of difference. IMO they need to reduce the runners and bring the fences back up to their original height.

My condolences go to Synchronised and According To Pete's grooms and owners, thoughts and prayers go to Weird Al's.

 

[Dab]

I have said this many times.
Poor Synchronised was by Saddlers Wells & inbred to Hail to Reason for instance. Quite a few NH horses look pretty nowadays. Not that many looked like proper jumpers.

Did you see the parade of the old winners? Interestingly the much older ones looked far chunkier than most of those running today.

My boy is an ex-NH, but there's barely any difference between him and my past ex-flat horses.

 

[amandap]

ETS: why is it different? You don't need to eat meat. You do it through choice. Both food and entertainment are covered under the same cloud of animal exploitation by humans. Why does it annoy you to compare them?

Humans ate meat long before they farmed crops and animals lived their lives until we killed them. No, we don't have to eat meat but we do have to eat, we don't have to assume animals are somehow worth less than us because we eat them. There are so many of us bloomin humans that we do have to farm now to feed ourselves but we don't have to use animals for entertainment at all. We abuse animals in so many ways but to then say it's ok because this or that is worse doesn't help any individuals plight or senseless and demeaning death.

It reminds me of those morons who shoot animals for so called sport and then decry wolves and foxes for killing to eat... that is being a hypocrite.

The argument that racehorses have 'good' lives is also debatable imo.