Has bullying on yards got worse or better in people’s opinion?

[Birker2020]

I need to update my UI list again

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I need to update my UI list again

Do it.

Is it satisfying to you to make an announcement about it? ?

 

[Rowreach]

I've made some fantastic friends on here over the (rather too many) years I've been knocking about, some have transitioned into rl friendships, others have stayed online, but I include in that not just the people I broadly agree with on many things - there's probably not a single person whose views align entirely with mine and I sort of hope they don't - but also a lot of people who I broadly don't agree with, yet we have achieved a great, respectful in most cases, ability to disagree on a lot of subjects without animosity, and with the ability to jump from a contentious thread to an innocuous one in the space of a few seconds, without bearing grudges.

Interestingly, it's some of those forum members who I've tangled with in the past who have been among those who have shown great concern and kindness off-forum due to a few posts I've made about personal stuff, which I think is particularly lovely of them.

 

[Caol Ila]

Back on topic: I don't know if I have ever been at a yard where there has been "bullying" in its traditional meaning - the repeated behaviour intended to harass and emotionally/physically hurt someone.

It does not mean getting into a disagreement or argument or even snarky comments behind someone's back (who hasn't been guilty of this?). If the recipient of the snark doesn't know you've bitched about them, is it bullying? I'd say it's not admirable behaviour, but it's not bullying, either.

I've been at ones where people can be bitchy. And ones where the YO was a bit of a jerk and played favourites. The yard I stayed at whilst I was an undergraduate could have a prickly social dynamic. The prickliest. People would railbird and make narky comments to the effect of, "I really don't like the way she rides." Used to annoy me. If I was hearing those comments about other boarders, people were making them about me as well. I once pointed out that we cannot all be Steffan Peters, and everyone is at various stages of their riding/horsemanship journey.

But no one, to my knowledge anyway, was targeted or harassed. It was equal opportunity bitchiness. I think the only people who escaped it were a couple lasses who were exceptionally good riders, so no one could slag them off. Either way, I would not call it bullying because it was not a campaign of harassment against any individual.

 

[Horseysheepy]

I think myself very lucky that I've never been a victim of bullying when at livery yards, but I've witnessed it.
One miserable time I did have was a retired lady who offered me lovely grazing and stables all to myself and my horses. Lovely as you could wish for, until the day after I'd moved horses in, she'd got me under her thumb!
She never stopped complaining and it got to the point that I would deliberately do my horses before she arose from bed and after dark when she was tucked up inside.
After three months, I secretly took stuff home bit by bit until just the horses and trailer left. I told her I was leaving and off I went.
I didn't have fellow liveries to confide in or back me up, it was a miserable existence, but the horses loved it, which is such a shame.

 

[honetpot]

I often think that those who call others bullies, are the biggest bullies themselves. It may be in a more passive aggressive manner, but just as bullying. It is up to each individual whether they engage with people they view as bullies, or not, wherever they are.

I work with someone who has absolute no shade of grey attitude to people. If you describe a scenario, her immediate reaction is, were they aggressive, did they bully you? Most of the time people are just venting because they are annoyed, allow them to vent and listen, you can usually get around the situation.
I was bullied at school sometimes, no internet, so once I got home I could shut the door on it. In the age of the internet you have to make your own safe space, do you have to respond and is it better just to leave it and move on? Forums are venues for opinions, because someone is prepared to defend their opinion, even if you do not agree with it that is not in my opinion bullying, and if lots of people do not agree with you, IMO that is not bullying, it just means in that particular snapshot of time, you are in the minority. So you either take on the chin, or move on, and leave that discussion.

I come from a happy family home where arguing, was a family blood sport, you battered your opponent, until it was time to break for a cup of tea, and the subject moved on. At fourteen, I could hold my own with my dad's openly racist opinions, I was never told to shut up. The first time I shut him up with a good response, well fifty years later I remember it.
My husband's family thought/think that arguing shows bad manners, no one says what they really think, so no one expresses their real feelings, OCD runs in the family, and fear of failure. My first big row with my husband after we married, he thought I was going to leave him, not that I was purely venting frustration, that he was unable to discuss an issue. Is not allowing or acknowledging someone else's opinions, you do not have to agree with them, passive-aggressive bullying?

 

[Birker2020]

Do it.

Is it satisfying to you to make an announcement about it? ?

Is it satisfying for you to goad me?

 

[Birker2020]

What I can't quite comprehend is how some members of this bb

My post here isn't the kindest post but it's not wrong and re this particular bb, I just don't care anymore.

What is a BB please?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I work with someone who has absolute no shade of grey attitude to people. If you describe a scenario, her immediate reaction is, were they aggressive, did they bully you? Most of the time people are just venting because they are annoyed, allow them to vent and listen, you can usually get around the situation.
I was bullied at school sometimes, no internet, so once I got home I could shut the door on it. In the age of the internet you have to make your own safe space, do you have to respond and is it better just to leave it and move on? Forums are venues for opinions, because someone is prepared to defend their opinion, even if you do not agree with it that is not in my opinion bullying, and if lots of people do not agree with you, IMO that is not bullying, it just means in that particular snapshot of time, you are in the minority. So you either take on the chin, or move on, and leave that discussion.

I come from a happy family home where arguing, was a family blood sport, you battered your opponent, until it was time to break for a cup of tea, and the subject moved on. At fourteen, I could hold my own with my dad's openly racist opinions, I was never told to shut up. The first time I shut him up with a good response, well fifty years later I remember it.
My husband's family thought/think that arguing shows bad manners, no one says what they really think, so no one expresses their real feelings, OCD runs in the family, and fear of failure. My first big row with my husband after we married, he thought I was going to leave him, not that I was purely venting frustration, that he was unable to discuss an issue. Is not allowing or acknowledging someone else's opinions, you do not have to agree with them, passive-aggressive bullying?

This sort of reminds me of my family and our "passionate ranting" in that we sound angry or argumentative to some outsiders, but it's just how we talk. No one is really angry, or all that upset, it just sounds dramatic ?

Sometimes there are arguments, but often just for sport and they lead to interesting discussions, or end with no agreement, but moving on nonetheless without the slightest grudge.

If you're not used to that type of expression, it might seem alarming, I suppose.

 

[Birker2020]

This sort of reminds me of my family and our "passionate ranting" in that we sound angry or argumentative to some outsiders, but it's just how we talk. No one is really angry, or all that upset, it just sounds dramatic ?

Sometimes there are arguments, but often just for sport and they lead to interesting discussions, or end with no agreement, but moving on nonetheless without the slightest grudge.

If you're not used to that type of expression, it might seem alarming, I suppose.

What is a BB please?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

What is a BB please?

I saw your question the first time.

Hm. What could it be?

"this bb"

It just means bulletin board, another term for forum. Sometimes I say forum, sometimes I say discussion forum, sometimes I say bb. I've seen it elsewhere too. Maybe here? So it's not terribly uncommon, but just another term for this ol' place here; HHO.

 

[Goldenstar]

I did not know that .

 

[CanteringCarrot]

I did not know that .

Yeah, and idk if it came from here or another USA based "bb" because my language is such a mixing pot (UK English, USA English, German, French, Polish..) so sometimes I use terms from another "culture" but generally "online" is its own culture ?

However, you could possibly pick up what I mean if you look at the context and the words surrounding the unknown term/word.

I mean, it was such a rousing question that it was asked twice. The answer isn't so interesting, I'm afraid, but the more you know, and all that.

 

[DressageCob]

I always read bb as bebé so I was getting a bit confused because I hadn't seen any babies floating around ? I gathered it must mean forum, post, section, thread etc or similar because of the context, once I read it properly ?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Oh, the last thing I want is babies floating around!

 

[Fire sign]

I

I saw some very interesting passive aggression with tying up horses in barn corridors this year. On a couple of occasions, cross tying across the aisle and blocking it unless unclipped, one of those when there was an empty tying up bay not 10 feet away. It's very, very dominant behaviour, either completely unthinking or designed to keep others "in their place" by making them beg to get out of their own stabling. The cross tying owner blocking my way out of the barn unless I asked them to unclip and move their horse seemed quite disappointed when I led my horse out the bottom through an obstacle course of farm machinery that he didn't give two hoots about. Current stable has a "no horses tied up outside the box" policy which stops that behaviour dead in its tracks. A good set of rules, uniformly applied, are in every reasonable person's interests in a livery yard.
.

Is that on Somerford ycbm ? Are you still on there ?

 

[SaddlePsych'D]

Not bullying so much but I did spend some time at a yard helping out quite a bit. Until I realised I was worthy to pick up after other people's horses but not for them to bother chatting to me all that much/in some cases at all, to attend social events and be the only one asked to help set up, to take an interest in other people/their horses but not really ever be asked about my riding (yes it's only RS, not that exciting), to go to shows but feel like an absolute spare part. Final straw was what I thought was a going to be a group outing, planned months in advance, then when it came to going everyone else had sorted transport together in two groups and I was a complete afterthought. I didn't go to the event and I decided to stop going where I did not feel welcome.

That said, I have been at a yard where people do sit around and drink tea and chat (some of them middle aged women!) and managed to not have drama or unpleasantness. There were people that liked to crack on with things but were not ignorant/rude about it, others who liked to stop and chat, some owners and some sharers, some happy hackers, some non-riders, and some out competing every week. It was a really, genuinely nice place to be and I never felt 'less than'. It can be done!

 

[ycbm]

Is that on Somerford ycbm ? Are you still on there ?

I left to get more turnout in bigger paddocks in winter, and to have him in a small herd so he moves more.
.

 

[Boots*McGruber]

The yard I’m on doesn’t have any bullying that I’m aware of and it is a big yard with over 40 horses. I imagine there’s a bit of gossip here and there but generally people don’t seem to talk about each other in a negative way and are quite supportive. That said I haven’t made any close friends at the yard. I live quite far away and work funny hours so I’m often not around at the busiest times which doesn’t help.

 

[Kaylum]

If you are being bullied it's harassment. Please do something about it yourself. You are entitled to ask the person to stop harassing you. Tell them to leave you alone or you will report them to the police. This includes unwanted comments, mocking, moving your things and generally making you feel uncomfortable. Your best putting it in writing. But please do it. Nobody is allowed to make you feel this way. Its hard to do but needs doing. And if it carrys on go to the police.

 

[EllenJay]

If you are being bullied it's harassment. Please do something about it yourself. You are entitled to ask the person to stop harassing you. Tell them to leave you alone or you will report them to the police. This includes unwanted comments, mocking, moving your things and generally making you feel uncomfortable. Your best putting it in writing. But please do it. Nobody is allowed to make you feel this way. Its hard to do but needs doing. And if it carrys on go to the police.

This is perfectly correct - however, most of us on here are leisure riders and do this as our hobby, so we want an easy life. Escalating this up to the police really isn't going to help, it could in fact backfire and give you a name as a "troublemaker" and make it difficult to move on to a different yard. I hate bullying, but if by escalating to the YO / YM doesn't resolve the issue then sometimes the easiest way is to move on.

 

[Kaylum]

This is perfectly correct - however, most of us on here are leisure riders and do this as our hobby, so we want an easy life. Escalating this up to the police really isn't going to help, it could in fact backfire and give you a name as a "troublemaker" and make it difficult to move on to a different yard. I hate bullying, but if by escalating to the YO / YM doesn't resolve the issue then sometimes the easiest way is to move on.

I know that but it needs reporting its the law and it goes for every location. Even if you have to move on it will make people think twice about doing it to someone else.

 

[Rowreach]

Bullying and harassment are not the same thing, and bullying in itself is not against the law, whereas harassment is. I can imagine the reaction of the police to a load of horsey women complaining that their YO is ignoring them or the other liveries don't include them in their Whatsapp group.

 

[luckyoldme]

If you are being bullied it's harassment. Please do something about it yourself. You are entitled to ask the person to stop harassing you. Tell them to leave you alone or you will report them to the police. This includes unwanted comments, mocking, moving your things and generally making you feel uncomfortable. Your best putting it in writing. But please do it. Nobody is allowed to make you feel this way. Its hard to do but needs doing. And if it carrys on go to the police.

I'm not sure if you have ever needed the police or what your local force is like.
I have needed the police for a lot worse than a spot of bullying , and had no help.
It took our force 5 days to respond to a break in.
I have experienced yard bullying, and the culprit was like a dog with a bone. I could have fought it out , or just moved on and let someone with more time on their hands sort the bitch out.
For me life is just too short.

 

[Fieldlife]

I am not sure if yard bullying has le

I know that but it needs reporting its the law and it goes for every location. Even if you have to move on it will make people think twice about doing it to someone else.

Given the police don’t typically attend for burglaries or car thefts, how interested do you think they will be on filing a report someone on a yard is moving your stuff / making unkind comments/ making you feel uncomfortable Etc.

In a workplace (especially a large one) there are processes and channels for dealing with this). But unless you have engaged effective yard management it’s hard to see how prevent in yards.

 

[AntiPuck]

I have been quite lucky not to really experience any bullying on the two yards i've been on so far. Do get unwanted advice foisted on me, but I think part of that is that people think i'm a lot younger than I am, and so easy prey.

I make a point never to comment on others' horses unless it's to say how lovely they are, or if i'm explicitly asked for my opinion. Even if you don't actually offend someone with what you say, unwanted comments miff people off and erode trust very quickly.

 

[Miss_Millie]

According to the Anti-Bullying Alliance UK, the definition of bullying is:

'The repetitive, intentional hurting of one person or group by another person or group, where the relationship involves an imbalance of power. It can happen face to face or online.'

There are four key elements to this definition:

• hurtful
• repetition
• power imbalance
• intentional

Bullying behaviour can be:

• Physical – pushing, poking, kicking, hitting, biting, pinching etc.
• Verbal - name calling, sarcasm, spreading rumours, threats, teasing, belittling.
• Emotional – isolating others, tormenting, hiding books, threatening gestures, ridicule, humiliation, intimidating, excluding, manipulation and coercion.
• Sexual – unwanted physical contact, inappropriate touching, abusive comments, homophobic abuse, exposure to inappropriate films etc.
• Online /cyber – posting on social media, sharing photos, sending nasty text messages, social exclusion
• Indirect - Can include the exploitation of individuals.

I have seen a lot of bullying on various yards over the years...a hell of a lot. The bullying on yards that I have witnessed is mostly emotional - excluding and isolating, spreading rumours/slander, cornering/ganging up on one person and manipulating them into doing something that they are not comfortable with etc. I'm not really on social media, but I know people who have received unpleasant texts/messages from yard bullies, meaning that they can never really get away. I have seen quite a few yard owner bullies over the years too, or instructor bullies, which is very much along the lines of the power imbalance.

Unpopular opinion - I think that the horse world attracts bullies like a magnet. The average horse-human relationship is quite one-sided and I have observed that the bullying types also bully their horses. I also think that a lot of bullies don't have much self-esteem, or satisfaction or fulfilment in their personal lives, and channel that frustrated energy into analysing what other people do with their horses and pick them apart, almost like it's a hobby to fill the void.

I have witnessed some truly nasty bullying at yards over the past 20 years, like nothing I have seen in the workplace or even at school. I think that a lot of people suffer in silence and are driven off of yards in the end when it becomes too much.

 

[jnb]

The very worst bullying I experienced was by someone I considered a friend - we'd been on a yard run by another mutual friend years before and when I bought a young horse, I needed 24/7 turnout and was let down at the last minute (literally 2 days prior to him arriving over fro Ireland) despite the yard in question being 18 miles away, for 24/7 turnout and a stable available for winter nights, I decided if we could share the work (I'd do feeding/hay etc every evening and Sat & Sunday mornings in return for them doing Mon-Fri mornings as obviously logistically starting work at 8am was difficult if doing 18 miles there & back)

Worked well...for about 7 weeks...then, out of the blue my very dodgy back went on me and I ended up in A&E on Tramadol and couldn't stand without it spasming. My partner who works anything from 4am - 6pm or later, was driving over after work to do the evenings (by this time I'd moved to my mums as I couldn't be left alone as couldn't get out of bed I was in such pain)

By now it was November. This person suddenly decided horses needed to come in at night, ad what was I going to do about turning mine out (feral non halter broken 2-3 yo, we had a headcollar on him, no malice in him just a bit stop/start when leading but never tried anything naughty just wanted a little look at the cows/dogs/whatever then would lead.) She wanted to put a Chifney on to lead him!! I said a categorical NO considering he'd not had a bit in his mouth, the last thing i wanted was him ruining before I had even got on!

I arranged a local freelance to deal with my baby cob in the mornings, (even though they'd said they would do mornings but whatever) - I was paying - next thing I knew they wanted him to muck out their stables as well as mine (me paying) errr no unless they were paying! They agreed to that.

Then, oh no because he only had a 7am slot available as other work at 8am that wasn't good enough as this woman didn't want her horses out till 9 as she'd got to get her kids (18 yo son) to school first. So I asked if the other livery's pony could be put out with my cob at 7am then she came at 9 to put the other 2 out ...no, I needed apparently to pay for ANOTHER groom to come at 9am to put them all out together, wtf?!

One day while lying in bed unable to get up in agony, I had 27 texts from her telling me I basically was too lazy to resolve the issues with my cob (there weren't any he was just a baby), what was I doing about the groom situation, she wasn't prepared to deal with my cob, as he wasn't handleable (sp?) and harassing me, I was already stressed out, in pain and unbeknown to me, one night I suffered a blood clot moving through my heart (woke up choking and unable to breathe with chest pains, ended up with PEs 4 months later and nearly died - I swear stress was a factor.)

I was so stressed I rang a very good friend who has her own place with 40 acres who'd always said having seen the issues I'd had on yards before, just send them to me if you need to & I will care for them like my own, I made that call which broke my heart & I dosed myself up on Tramadol & co codamol to meet the transporter so my cob could be transported 55 miles away to my lovely friend.

Got to the yard and propped myself up against the stable wall as I couldn't really stand up, while OH got my cob in.

Next thing I knew, this woman (who by the way holds a very prominent and public facing role in an national equestrian organisation) flew at me and screamed in my face like a fishwife, called me every name under the sun, spitting words at me from 6" away pinning me against the stable all, I couldn't get away as in too much pain and shock.

I was crying and begging her to leave me alone and asking what had I done wrong? She could see from the state of me how ill and in pain I was, but she kept screaming at me and jabbing me with her finger, nothing I could say would make her stop, I just stood there shaking and crying until she screamed herself out, which seemed to take hours but in reality was about 5 min.

The worse thing was she'd waited till my partner was outside so he could't defend me (bully) and it was ALL witnessed by the other livery's 10 year old daughter. It was awful.

This woman is the "face" of a top national equestrian organisation. She literally is nice as pie Hyacinth Bucket type to your face....until the mask slips. Thinking back, my farrier had warned me about her but I thought he was exaggerating. I also found out when explaining to the Yard owner that she'd done it to HIM too! WTF?!

I loaded my lovely cob and lay in the car on the way home feeling like utter sh*t, like I was the worst person letting my cob be on a yard with THAT.

Never been on a yard since, and never will, willingly. Obviously won't name and shame her but you wouldn't have believed it unless you saw it, it was like she became possessed almost.
I have never publicly spoken of this till now (It was 6 years ago almost to the day).

Weirdest thing is she text me like nothing happened the next day. I genuinely think she didn't realise how bad she is and no one has ever told her!

 

[Birker2020]

I mean, it was such a rousing question that it was asked twice. The answer isn't so interesting, I'm afraid, but the more you know, and all that.

Are you familiar with the word sarky I wonder?

 

[Birker2020]

The very worst bullying I experienced was by someone I considered a friend - we'd been on a yard run by another mutual friend years before and when I bought a young horse, I needed 24/7 turnout and was let down at the last minute (literally 2 days prior to him arriving over fro Ireland) despite the yard in question being 18 miles away, for 24/7 turnout and a stable available for winter nights, I decided if we could share the work (I'd do feeding/hay etc every evening and Sat & Sunday mornings in return for them doing Mon-Fri mornings as obviously logistically starting work at 8am was difficult if doing 18 miles there & back)

Worked well...for about 7 weeks...then, out of the blue my very dodgy back went on me and I ended up in A&E on Tramadol and couldn't stand without it spasming. My partner who works anything from 4am - 6pm or later, was driving over after work to do the evenings (by this time I'd moved to my mums as I couldn't be left alone as couldn't get out of bed I was in such pain)

By now it was November. This person suddenly decided horses needed to come in at night, ad what was I going to do about turning mine out (feral non halter broken 2-3 yo, we had a headcollar on him, no malice in him just a bit stop/start when leading but never tried anything naughty just wanted a little look at the cows/dogs/whatever then would lead.) She wanted to put a Chifney on to lead him!! I said a categorical NO considering he'd not had a bit in his mouth, the last thing i wanted was him ruining before I had even got on!

I arranged a local freelance to deal with my baby cob in the mornings, (even though they'd said they would do mornings but whatever) - I was paying - next thing I knew they wanted him to muck out their stables as well as mine (me paying) errr no unless they were paying! They agreed to that.

Then, oh no because he only had a 7am slot available as other work at 8am that wasn't good enough as this woman didn't want her horses out till 9 as she'd got to get her kids (18 yo son) to school first. So I asked if the other livery's pony could be put out with my cob at 7am then she came at 9 to put the other 2 out ...no, I needed apparently to pay for ANOTHER groom to come at 9am to put them all out together, wtf?!

One day while lying in bed unable to get up in agony, I had 27 texts from her telling me I basically was too lazy to resolve the issues with my cob (there weren't any he was just a baby), what was I doing about the groom situation, she wasn't prepared to deal with my cob, as he wasn't handleable (sp?) and harassing me, I was already stressed out, in pain and unbeknown to me, one night I suffered a blood clot moving through my heart (woke up choking and unable to breathe with chest pains, ended up with PEs 4 months later and nearly died - I swear stress was a factor.)

I was so stressed I rang a very good friend who has her own place with 40 acres who'd always said having seen the issues I'd had on yards before, just send them to me if you need to & I will care for them like my own, I made that call which broke my heart & I dosed myself up on Tramadol & co codamol to meet the transporter so my cob could be transported 55 miles away to my lovely friend.

Got to the yard and propped myself up against the stable wall as I couldn't really stand up, while OH got my cob in.

Next thing I knew, this woman (who by the way holds a very prominent and public facing role in an national equestrian organisation) flew at me and screamed in my face like a fishwife, called me every name under the sun, spitting words at me from 6" away pinning me against the stable all, I couldn't get away as in too much pain and shock.

I was crying and begging her to leave me alone and asking what had I done wrong? She could see from the state of me how ill and in pain I was, but she kept screaming at me and jabbing me with her finger, nothing I could say would make her stop, I just stood there shaking and crying until she screamed herself out, which seemed to take hours but in reality was about 5 min.

The worse thing was she'd waited till my partner was outside so he could't defend me (bully) and it was ALL witnessed by the other livery's 10 year old daughter. It was awful.

This woman is the "face" of a top national equestrian organisation. She literally is nice as pie Hyacinth Bucket type to your face....until the mask slips. Thinking back, my farrier had warned me about her but I thought he was exaggerating. I also found out when explaining to the Yard owner that she'd done it to HIM too! WTF?!

I loaded my lovely cob and lay in the car on the way home feeling like utter sh*t, like I was the worst person letting my cob be on a yard with THAT.

Never been on a yard since, and never will, willingly. Obviously won't name and shame her but you wouldn't have believed it unless you saw it, it was like she became possessed almost.
I have never publicly spoken of this till now (It was 6 years ago almost to the day).

Weirdest thing is she text me like nothing happened the next day. I genuinely think she didn't realise how bad she is and no one has ever told her!

Wow what a terrible experience you had. That must have been awful. Some folk are very strange, "there's nowt so queer as folk" as someone once said.