Heavy riders, who should speak out and when*spin off*

[skint1]

That is so true! It's irritating as well because after the first 2-3 stone come off so quickly, then it slows down just when you could do with a bit of a push! I'm hoping the mucking out this winter will help!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

cinnamon toast, I agree. and your username is just cruelty, btw...

Sorry , it was my cat!

 

[Cortez]

Skint1, firstly very well done on losing all that weight and keep up the good work, it'll sooo be worth it. Your mare looks like a good weight carrying sort that should be up to carrying a heavier rider when fit and not so tubby herself, however just saying you "look" OK on her is typical of the trap we all fall into - how much do you actually weigh in that picture? How tall is the mare?

 

[skint1]

I am 5ft7, the mare is 16.3 and I weigh there about 15.7st

 

[Rollin]

On the subject of losing weight. My husband has always had a problem with his weight and done every diet you can think of. Weight off, weight on!!

Then he retired and now spends most of the year in France. He has lots three stone in 2 years on three meals a day inc. three/four courses at lunch time with wine.

 

[meesha]

I knew it !!!!!!!! no work and wine is the answer !!!!!!!!! yehhhhhhhh

..... and dont come back saying its because of eating more healthily, having the time to prepare proper freshly cooked meals and eat them sitting down rather than on the go - dont burst my bubble I will focus on the wine !!! (dashes off to kitchen to see what is in the wine rack)

 

[Big Ben]

Good morning people, just dropping back into the thread to prove I haven't been chased away, but have been sleeping.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed their thoughts, especially those who have stayed on topic and been polite. Those who choose to be rude, I choose not to listen to you, those who have offered constructive ideas and suggestions thank you, I appreciate you taking the time and the trouble to actually try and help. So easy to sit behind a keyboard and type the "OMG you are squashing your horse remarks", but it really helps nothing.

No I don't have a poor metabolism, I have a great one, designed to make the most of every calorie it is fed.

What am I fighting against, nothing insurmountable, no excuses, just facts, a year of limited mobility with the knee issue, now resolved (as much as it is going to be) going through the mentalpause, seems to have made a lot of things work differently. The food over here, well yes there is the issue of sugar in most things, and also the more contentious one of growth hormones in most of the meat, not sure how much research has been done, but I do wonder.

I fight the portion sizes out here, and also I am fighting with being a failure,

Feb 2008 I quit smoking, and added several pounds to the burden I was already carrying.
Feb 2009 I went on a diet and over the next 18 months I lost 140 pounds, and felt great, although that woman was strange to me.

and now I have put a whole bunch of that back on, *sigh* I do struggle with moderation, smoke, don't smoke, easy, severe diet, kind of easy, living on a normal diet, struggles BIG time.

BUT, I am back and trying again, and for me and the horses I will succeed.

Oh, and no none of these guys are young.

Ben is 10, Emmy is 8, Wills is 6, and then there is little Angel at 14 months.

 

[Big Ben]

I knew it !!!!!!!! no work and wine is the answer !!!!!!!!! yehhhhhhhh

Wine, mmmmmm just when I have gone teetotal again!

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I knew it !!!!!!!! no work and wine is the answer !!!!!!!!! yehhhhhhhh

I wish, I'd be sorted!

Thanks to everyone who has contributed their thoughts, especially those who have stayed on topic and been polite. Those who choose to be rude, I choose not to listen to you, those who have offered constructive ideas and suggestions thank you, I appreciate you taking the time and the trouble to actually try and help. So easy to sit behind a keyboard and type the "OMG you are squashing your horse remarks", but it really helps nothing.

BUT, I am back and trying again, and for me and the horses I will succeed

I don't see where anyone has been rude or used nasty terms/words. You put this on a public forum, you can only expect some honest opinions, which you have got. The have been many comments about how long backed your horse is and this does lead to weakness through the back. Imagine snapping a long stick-it would snap near the centre.

I haven't ridden my short coupled weight carrier cob since April because of my weight: I found him nice sharers and did groundwork. Who am I to decide to ride because I physically can? I don't believe he should carry more than a certain weight, as advised by my vet. When I lose the weight and he's sound, I'll get back on for short periods. I would say for me to get on now would be abuse of his nice nature and his back. I would thoroughly expect people to be horrified were I to get on him now.

Do as you like with your horse, but don't expect people to laud your actions when they believe them to be wrong. Think about riding school limits and why they have them.

 

[Rollin]

I knew it !!!!!!!! no work and wine is the answer !!!!!!!!! yehhhhhhhh

..... and dont come back saying its because of eating more healthily, having the time to prepare proper freshly cooked meals and eat them sitting down rather than on the go - dont burst my bubble I will focus on the wine !!! (dashes off to kitchen to see what is in the wine rack)

I won't burst your bubble!!! We eat everything red meat, butter, pate en croute, dessert. We don't do low fat or zero carb. But we do front load our eating i.e. breakfast and a good lunch then a very light early supper - tonight soup with extra beans, perhaps a sandwich - I don't buy processed food if I need pasta sauce I make it. French people eat lunch rather than dinner.

Small portions especially of meat.

I listened to a Radio Four Case Notes programme in which they described a clinical trial in the USA. Two groups were trying to lose weight, one group were given breakfast with no further restrictions on their eating - they lost the most weight.

 

[Wagtail]

I don't see where anyone has been rude or used nasty terms/words. You put this on a public forum, you can only expect some honest opinions, which you have got. The have been many comments about how long backed your horse is and this does lead to weakness through the back. Imagine snapping a long stick-it would snap near the centre.

I haven't ridden my short coupled weight carrier cob since April because of my weight: I found him nice sharers and did groundwork. Who am I to decide to ride because I physically can? I don't believe he should carry more than a certain weight, as advised by my vet. When I lose the weight and he's sound, I'll get back on for short periods. I would say for me to get on now would be abuse of his nice nature and his back. I would thoroughly expect people to be horrified were I to get on him now.

Do as you like with your horse, but don't expect people to laud your actions when they believe them to be wrong. Think about riding school limits and why they have them.

This ^^

Big Ben, I don't see anyone saying 'OMG! You are squashing your horse.' as you stated.

You posted up a side view of your horse on another thread and asked the question, 'does he look like he would struggle?' I took time to look at his conformation. He is back at the knee, slightly sickle hocked and as others have said over and over, long backed. He may be a big boy but due to his conformational faults he is less able to carry the recommended maximum weight of 20% of his ideal weight. But you completely ignore this advice. Others have said that they too struggle with their weight, but do not choose to ride when they are too heavy. They put their horses before their own pleasure. It seems you are going to carry on riding regardless, unless I have got you wrong?

 

[Shysmum]

^^^ THIS.

It seems that OP just wants to try and justify herself, and get others telling her she is fine to ride her horse, and that makes me sad. Yes, she is too heavy for that horse's confirmation, and no she should not be riding it. I am an RDA Instructor, and I can tell you that the OP is way over the limit for riding even the biggest horse we have (even riders doing dressage comps). Why ? because the horse must not be asked to do more than it is physically capable of, because somewhere along the line it will break.

 

[FfionWinnie]

As an aside I hadn't heard of online dressage competitions, great idea tho. Can you post a vid please?

 

[indie999]

^^^ THIS.

It seems that OP just wants to try and justify herself, and get others telling her she is fine to ride her horse, and that makes me sad. Yes, she is too heavy for that horse's confirmation, and no she should not be riding it. I am an RDA Instructor, and I can tell you that the OP is way over the limit for riding even the biggest horse we have (even riders doing dressage comps). Why ? because the horse must not be asked to do more than it is physically capable of, because somewhere along the line it will break.

Yep agree as I may have said squash horse and you do even if you find that rude, truth hurts but hey as long as you tried to give up being big it doesnt give you the right to squash an animal as that is what you are doing. Please just eat less. Less in more effort and it will work. Dont give the metabolism is slow excuse. Too many justifications and excuses for being large. If you were on a Clydesdale, Shire or Breton horse you would be fine. Unfortunately surrounded by yes people isnt really helping your horse. In my line of work I know you will have definitely been given weight loss advice but we cant make you take it. Being heavy slows you down, and slows your horse too. Pure common sense. It would be great if in 6 months time that you could post a fantastic result picture. Good luck, try harder. The old saying a moment in the mouth, month on the hips is true.

 

[Big Ben]

^^^ THIS.

It seems that OP just wants to try and justify herself, and get others telling her she is fine to ride her horse, and that makes me sad. Yes, she is too heavy for that horse's confirmation, and no she should not be riding it.

No not looking for justification, the thread is about when you speak out and who would speak out, and I have already thanked everyone for their opinion, just I have bigger thanks for those who can express their views on a straight forward manner, like you have.

Again, with Big Ben, some here are horrified that I ride him, some are on the fence, some are OK. The people in real life here are OK, and I am OK in what I am asking him to do at present, which is relatively little, I want to do far more, and I am working to get to a stage where I can.

I have cherry picked a few comments to follow up, but again, thanks to everyone who has contributed.

Lets be frank,the majority of overweight people eat too much and exercise too little. No one is forcing us to eat so many calories.... our horses certainly aren't. We all have a duty of care to our animals. Your handsome black horse looks very well looked after but sadly you are too heavy for him at present. A month of strict dieting and perhaps swimming ( since you have knee probs) would make a wealth of difference to your lad's life. Imagine by Christmas you could be wearing a size smaller breeches and knowing, if you kept it up, come spring you would be hopping on and off your other horse with ease as well.

This whole post is awesome, I have shortened it, but THANK YOU Brigadoon, this is the kind of feedback that actually inspires a person to try and change, and make improvements. No punches pulled, but no offence is or should be taken

Absolutely what I was getting at. If the OP has had an op on her knee (i think thats what she said) she would have been told to lose weight. She should try to lose it before squashing her horse, but I think she could do that quite easily. Unfortunately people make money out of horses so their welfare isnt always important, as long as the human is having a nice time. I watched a very good instructor give a lame horse a lesson who was clearly lame(it was). Money. It is quite obvious big things squash little things. .

You see I don't believe I am squashing him, and yes I have had an OP, and no I wasn't told to lose weight, we did discuss it, and yes I know I need to, but the surgeons words, "There is far more to weight loss than the medical profession currently understands" which was a strange thing to hear.

OP, your horse is a grand big fella, but he is long and weak in the back; if I was you I would not be riding this horse, nor the other mare either, until I had lost the weight and put considerably more muscle over my horses loin.

Factual, to the point, honest and absolutely great feed back.

OP, I have told you before that I think you are too heavy for your boy due to his conformational faults that I outlined in a previous thread, but you ignored. As for your mare, what were you thinking? She is a beautiful fine boned animal...

What was I thinking, well I took her over to my trainer for an assessment, I wasn't sure I was going to ride, because I was doubtful about her carrying me, but the trainer said she would be fine. That was though the one and only time that I have been on her, because I don't think it is fine at all,

The photograph of the man on the grey is just horrific! So sad to be putting the horse through that.
***IMO*** you look too heavy to be riding them horses too.

Brief and to the point, but honest.


So no not looking for anything other than the original question, when do you speak up, and who should speak up.

 

[1life]

There are heavy riders and those who ride light - a heavy person can ride light (if in balance with the horse) and light rider can ride heavy if not........

I'm sorry but I get a bit fed up with hearing this. I understand the reasoning behind it, I know riders who are a good riding weight can still be unbalanced and not have independent seats etc BUT, you cannot ride lighter than you actually are! You cannot stand on scales in a balanced position, carrying yourself well and magically make yourself lighter.
If you are too heavy for the type of horse you are wanting to ride then your way of riding cannot suddenly make it okay for a horse to have to carry you - you will do damage, maybe not immediately visible damage but certainly strain, soreness etc.
And yes, in my opinion, the OP is too large for the type of horse she is choosing to ride.

 

[Big Ben]

As an aside I hadn't heard of online dressage competitions, great idea tho. Can you post a vid please?

Can't find one of me on the site, and not brave enough to link to my own account, but here is a friend and her stud doing a video test.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUc-GySoVbE


It is recorded, goes off for marking and then we get the marks later. It means that we have all sorts of judges marking us, rather than the very very small pool of judges that you can find for dressage in Saskatchewan

 

[Silent Knight]

This subject has been done to death and the facts don't change. To overload a horse is abuse!

Most people don't want confrontation, so they say nothing.
It doesn't alter the fact that a person is too heavy to ride a certain horse, nor does it mean that they agree with it.

It shouldn't be up to other people to tell someone that they are fat. A look at photographs like you have posted makes the situation quite clear.

The problem is fat people in denial who take offence when the truth is told.
A love of horse riding should be a motivation to lose weight or keep weight to a health level.

Obese riders will always ride heavy, because they are.

 

[The_snoopster]

It's a really difficult question. That huge guy on the little grey Araby horse looked appalling. But throughout the ages, in the Uk and Europe, it was common for ladies, children to ride pillion. So you put up your 11 stone man, with his 9 stone wife riding pillion, and you probably have a greater weight than the big guy in the pic. And horses coped with it. As has been pointed out in other threads, Highland ponies bring down the stags off the hill - probably 16 stone+. The Dales ponies were bred to carry lead from the mines at Alston, high on the Northumberland fells, down to the docks at Newcastle. They carried two paniers with 8 stone of lead in each pannier; I believe the distance is about 29 miles, and they were capable of trotting a lot of the way.

I don't think it helps to speak out unless you have very definite proof that the horse is suffering - not just because you think it doesn't look dainty.

He also looks totally unbalanced, whereas OP looks fine on her horse. The point about being heavy/riding light and being light/riding heavy is a very valid point.

Yes we all know what horse/ponies used to have to carry back in the day before the engine was invented, but how long did they last for. No wonder horses were considered past it and aged by the age of 12, all I can say is thankgod for the engine.
And yes I would tell someone they were too heavy to ride a particular horse, if a poster needs to question other posters so much about her weight has this poster does then maybe she has answered her own question about wether she should ride her horses or not due to being over weight.
I have recently started a diet as I have put 1 1/2 stone on since I bought my horse many years ago, but now she is in her 20,s I feel it only fair to lose the fat and keep my horse happy.

 

[ImmyS]

Basically the moral of the story/thread is people should not be overweight full stop, then all these pointless, needless debates wouldn't be dragged up time and time again. Am I wrong?

 

[Pedantic]

Don't go with the "ride light" thing, 20 stone on the back of a horse not big enough to carry it is still 20 stone, the only difference is one 20 stone person will ride better and bounce around less than another bouncing around causing more suffering, but 20 stone is 20 stone no matter what you do with it, the riding light thing is just an excuse to make it sound better.

Anyone blatantly too heavy for the steed is inflicting animal abuse.

If your overweight get a bigger stronger horse, not complicated,

 

[indie999]

You see I don't believe I am squashing him, and yes I have had an OP, and no I wasn't told to lose weight, we did discuss it, and yes I know I need to, but the surgeons words, "There is far more to weight loss than the medical profession currently understands" which was a strange thing to hear.

Ah what your surgeon is saying is that it is in your mind too...not just physical or metabolic as a lot of people suggest, metabolism does slow down as we get older and we have to work harder. We have all heard of "comfort eating", its in your mind. Now you tell me what happens during famine ie Ethiopia..lack of food/skinny. Now tell me about Anorexia?? food but a squew on body image etc/got rid off vomit, skinny. I am trying to demonstrate we doctors do know what food can do and without what it does. But he did discuss weight loss with you and you took his interpretation as he could not understand why yours hadnt worked. He probably in reality had not got a couple of hours to counsel you. He is a surgeon and wants to fix your immediate issue your knee? But am not being horrid to you by the way, you do realise you have a problem and if you work a bit harder at it no problem, just keep at it and then you wouldnt have to post what was posted originally. As I say be good to see you in six months time.Thats the challenge! Good luck your horse will last longer and so will you.


Factual, to the point, honest and absolutely great feed back.



What was I thinking, well I took her over to my trainer for an assessment, I wasn't sure I was going to ride, because I was doubtful about her carrying me, but the trainer said she would be fine. That was though the one and only time that I have been on her, because I don't think it is fine at all,

Ah but who is paying the trainer.........money.

 

[rhino]

As an aside I hadn't heard of online dressage competitions, great idea tho. Can you post a vid please?

Have a look at
http://www.interdressage.com/
http://www.dressageanywhere.com/

I hate the waiting about at competitions, and there is a huge lack of dressage comps in the area, unaff or BD, and especially at anything above Nov/Ele, so I really like them

Basically the moral of the story/thread is people should not be overweight full stop, then all these pointless, needless debates wouldn't be dragged up time and time again. Am I wrong?

Obviously not everyone finds them pointless and needless, they usually end up being quite 'hot' topics . It was fairly clear it was a thread about weight and riding so you feel them to be so pointless you don't need to open them

I don't think anyone has a problem with overweight riders, unless they are mounted on totally unsuitable horses. It's the same argument for someone of 18 stone on a tb or someone of 7 stone on a miniature, it's not just about the weight...

 

[Littlelegs]

I find it questionable op that your trainer okayed you riding the mare. And even if he is deluded, rather than just seeing £££ signs, do you do everything he says? If he said to ride a lame horse, or sock it in the mouth would you blindly agree? Because ultimately its your decision, & I think from your posts you know yourself that riding the mare is not fair at all, regardless of what any trainer says.

 

[meesha]

I think it its relevant that you are only riding for 30 mins at a time (I am sure that is what you said) and not doing anything too taxing. I am not saying that your horse isnt struggling - he must be feeling the extra weight - (if I pick up something heavier than I can easily carry I feel it !) I am refering to the first picture - the horse in the second I wouldnt want to see more than about 13 stone on.

you know you need to lose weight (I know I need to lose weight) and if you stick at it you will lose weight - why not start hacking out - walk horse out for 20mins in hand and then ride back or vice versa - it may also help if you can get someone lighter to get your horse up to full fitness so that when you are riding he/she finds it easier to cope.

Maybe utilise lunging and loose schooling as well to build fitness/topline in horse.

you are very brave posting - good luck with the weight battle - I find that just by asking myself "do I really want to eat that fat/sugar?" it helps, its my choice and its just re-educating yourself to make the right choices - I have lost one stone but have another 2 to go and yes i do feel that my horse is going better for me losing weight - I am also more balanced (less gut wobbling about) but have a way to go.

 

[ImmyS]

Have a look at
http://www.interdressage.com/
http://www.dressageanywhere.com/

I hate the waiting about at competitions, and there is a huge lack of dressage comps in the area, unaff or BD, and especially at anything above Nov/Ele, so I really like them



Obviously not everyone finds them pointless and needless, they usually end up being quite 'hot' topics . It was fairly clear it was a thread about weight and riding so you feel them to be so pointless you don't need to open them

I don't think anyone has a problem with overweight riders, unless they are mounted on totally unsuitable horses. It's the same argument for someone of 18 stone on a tb or someone of 7 stone on a miniature, it's not just about the weight...

i mean that they are pointless in that if people all weighed what they should, things like this wouldn't even need to be discussed. Obviously even if everyone was a healthy weight there would be other variables e.g. height that would effect what horses we could/could not ride, however there is no excuse for obesity.

 

[Littlelegs]

Actually immys, I disagree. There's no excuse for riding a horse that can't carry you comfortably. And plenty of obese people who simply need to exert will power. But like anorexia, for some it can be a mental illness with physical symptoms. Although I do think for the vast majority, its neither medical or mental problems, & something that can be overcome.

 

[devonlass]

If your overweight get a bigger stronger horse, not complicated,

Or stop riding until have lost weight??

It always amazes me that the most obvious and simple answer to the problem get's ignored.

People will change their horse,their tack,their riding activities and still spend most of their time berating and second guessing themselves,but they won't change their eating and exercise habits,it's mind boggling when you think about it

 

[ImmyS]

Actually immys, I disagree. There's no excuse for riding a horse that can't carry you comfortably. And plenty of obese people who simply need to exert will power. But like anorexia, for some it can be a mental illness with physical symptoms. Although I do think for the vast majority, its neither medical or mental problems, & something that can be overcome.

Then get help with it, in my opinion there are far too many overweight people who do nothing about it. It's fustrating when people call obesity a disease, it is not a disease, it is self inflicted. People are too careful around the subject. If you don't want to hear that you are over weight or in this case too heavy for your horse, do not get over weight in the first place, no one makes people put rubbish inside them.

 

[s4sugar]

i mean that they are pointless in that if people all weighed what they should, things like this wouldn't even need to be discussed. Obviously even if everyone was a healthy weight there would be other variables e.g. height that would effect what horses we could/could not ride, however there is no excuse for obesity.

Maybe no excuse but sometimes there are reasons....However as someone who has not been below 12 stone as an adult and once attended an Olympic trial (many years ago) not everyone is naturally a size 10. My weight when fit is around 13 stones. After a series of illnesses and steroids I'm usually closer to 15 than 13 stones but I chose my horses to carry this weight easily.
I would not get on a spindly, unfit, long backed horse. I might ride a fit, well conformed Arab or a fit native like a Fell or Highland or perhaps an overheight Connie but not the horses pictured at the top of this thread and I learned how to fit saddles so I can be certain that my weight is distributed correctly.
BTW I love Thoroughbreds but struggle to mount a tall horse from the ground so now have chunky polo bred Quarter horses or crosses.