Hit an all time low with my horse :(

[Goldenstar]

Horses in discomfort spook .
Horses who are not enough on the aids spook .
You have to work out what you are dealing with , if the horse has a complicated medical history I would retire her .

 

[AmyMay]

Your post from 7th November.

Both vets and all the physios have said she was always sore over the SI area when they've been out. It may have happened in her trailer accident as a yearling and is way too far gone, most likely arthritic but built up compensatory muscles around the area now perhaps as it's been this way for over 10 years.

All her symptoms for it are bunny hopping canter, short gait behind, snatches and reluctance to have back feet held up, can't cross back legs in tight circles, struggles to walk backwards in a straight line, can become disunited in canter, really hates when I've tried pelvic tucks.

In the same thread you say she has confirmed arthritis and a bone spur.

We can’t fix them all, and sometimes conformation, injury and their past simply catches up with them.

 

[PurBee]

Adrenaline can over-ride pain.
Pain can cause an adrenaline boost in the horse, which will over-ride the pain and they ‘look’ sound.

I experienced the same thing this past winter. One knee had inflamed to the point i needed a stick to walk with as i was hobbling around. Im fairly young and fit normally so became suddenly disabled. At this time i also turned my horses out into a new area. OH was with me as i could barely walk at a pace.
One horse rolled near the electric fence, as she got up she gave an excited buck and caught the fence, tore down and snapped the plastic post, dragged the fence with her, then flicked her hoof and de-tangled herself.
My thought and reaction was instantly ‘sh*t!’ - instant stress as i didnt want them then to escape via the downed line. So i instantly run to the fence line to re-build it. I could run! I was amazed! My knee didnt hurt! It was soooo weird how the pain vanished while my adrenaline was pumping!
Once the scenario was sorted and my adrenaline wore out my system, i was back to limping in pain with the stick.

Maybe due to pain your mare has discovered if she’s in stress adrenaline mode she feels no pain? Equally with pain significant enough, that alone will automatically pour adrenaline into the system as natural pain relief, and we’re left dealing with a behaviour that constantly is ’stressed’.

Hearing more about her issues, i agree that retirement is a good call. Or just turn her away for a year, let everything settle, and start with a trainer with re-training after a year. But thats only if you can envision/embrace and afford such a journey.

 

[PurBee]

Your post from 7th November.



In the same thread you say she has confirmed arthritis and a bone spur.

We can’t fix them all, and sometimes conformation, injury and their past simply catches up with them.

Agree. I wasnt aware of all the issues this mare has had, but learning more, i’d retire her, from ridden work. Riding her with these issues is obviously too much for her, hence her behaviour issues are consistent whether hacking/schooling/jumping.

If she’s not spooky unridden and daily handling etc she’s a joyful girl, i’d retire her.

You sound like you adore this mare, and i’d have her as my ’ground pal’ -doing interractive activities on the ground. There’s joy to be had from that aspect of horse ownership too. I’d also consider then loaning a horse suitable for whatever riding i wanted to do.

 

[paddy555]

The spooking is not always there so it is hard to tell if whatever I'm trying next is working or not. Some days she is so chilled out, seemingly happy plodding along and doesn't bat an eyelid at anything. Then others, she will have a meltdown at one thing and the rest of the ride will be hopeless.

that absolutely describes spooking from pain/discomfort. There is no logic to it. Conditions such as PSSM, ulcers, hind gut ulcers and those sort of conditions and many others. They are ones which we cannot always easily see. We can see if a horse has say a broken leg, it is hanging there. We cannot see the conditions that are affecting the horse internally. They are still there in the background. Some days they are tolerable, some days they just are not and some days they are a bliddy nightmare for the horse and there is no alternative but to spook because it is the only way the horse can be listened to. No amount of training stops these spooks. The biggest problem is that some of these conditions are almost impossible to diagnose.

My horse spooked badly with PSSM. Whilst I was trying to get this sorted he was totally irrational. For several days we would plod around, quiet, happy and no problems at all. Next day I would be walking calmly along a track he had been on many times before and he spooked badly. Just couldn't go on. I got off, still no success. I tried to do groundwork. No way, it was as you describe a meltdown. It was not logical. A horse that could perfectly happily walk, trot or canter up that track now couldn't even stand, take one step forward and one back in hand without going sky high.

We would be riding along and within .5 of a second we would be through 180 degrees and going back the way we had come. Again no logic. Nothing to shy at.
I was lucky in that I was able to find a cause PSSM, hind gut and vit e deficiency. Spooking resolved.

If I hadn't been able to my only alternative would have been PTS or retire him. There was no way I could have carried on riding with the discomfort. I didn't even know which days he was going to be unhappy on. He wasn't even unhappy all of the ride. We could set off fine and then run into problems.

He would certainly have cantered, I am sure he would have galloped. Whether he would have stopped with the pain I have no idea. I wasn't prepared to try it.

There are different types of spooking. There are 2 other threads on here ATM about hacking. One is a horse nervous in some situations where more training would most likely resolve it. The second is a cheeky, naughty 5 yo who is very clearly trying it on as he is now a teenager, knows everything and is no longer prepared to listen. He can quickly be resolved with some firm boundaries. Then there is yours spooking from discomfort and I am afraid that with that sort of spook the only answer is stop riding. I'm sorry. It is not a case of listening to your yard mates. Your vet only sees your horse for a short time. Your horse is trying to tell you something. He doesn't care about your peers or your vet. He is probably frustrated that they are not listening to him. I am afraid it is a case of listening.

 

[Northern]

I should have thought it over again sooner but I had written it off in my mind. It makes sense though. Both vets and all the physios have said she was always sore over the SI area when they've been out. It may have happened in her trailer accident as a yearling and is way too far gone, most likely arthritic but built up compensatory muscles around the area now perhaps as it's been this way for over 10 years.

All her symptoms for it are bunny hopping canter, short gait behind, snatches and reluctance to have back feet held up, can't cross back legs in tight circles, struggles to walk backwards in a straight line, can become disunited in canter, really hates when I've tried pelvic tucks.

I have always done in hand pole work to help strengthen and lots of hillwork but its just been too long to improve her way of going now. Probably why the YO says she's always moved that way too, because it started such a long time a go.

You wrote the above in November last year.

I am quite frankly a bit shocked that you have kept riding this mare. From what I recall, there was a limited budget for any investigations last year and the videos showed a significantly lame horse. It sounded like the mare needed a full workup with imaging to identify areas of deterioration. Have you done a recent workup? You mentioned the mare has had xrays done, but if they are older they will not show current deterioration. Forgive me, but you don't seem to have grasped that calmers/new saddles/physios are NOT going to solve the underlying issue. The comorbidities you listed are singly enough to limit the physical ability of this horse even just in day to day life. I don't wish to seem unkind, but you seem to have posted so many of these threads and continually ignore the excellent advice that has been given... Try and read what you've written about her back to yourself, do you honestly think she sounds like a happy horse being ridden?

You may think she seems "happy" going out, but believe me, what you describe is a defensive horse in pain. And as you have now indicated, it's affected your confidence as the behaviour has deteriorated. Do yourself a favour and retire this horse before someone gets hurt. Yes it's absolutely heart breaking to make that final decision, but it is also part of responsible horse ownership to know when to give up.

 

[Ellietotz]

You wrote the above in November last year.

I am quite frankly a bit shocked that you have kept riding this mare. From what I recall, there was a limited budget for any investigations last year and the videos showed a significantly lame horse. It sounded like the mare needed a full workup with imaging to identify areas of deterioration. Have you done a recent workup? You mentioned the mare has had xrays done, but if they are older they will not show current deterioration. Forgive me, but you don't seem to have grasped that calmers/new saddles/physios are NOT going to solve the underlying issue. The comorbidities you listed are singly enough to limit the physical ability of this horse even just in day to day life. I don't wish to seem unkind, but you seem to have posted so many of these threads and continually ignore the excellent advice that has been given... Try and read what you've written about her back to yourself, do you honestly think she sounds like a happy horse being ridden?

You may think she seems "happy" going out, but believe me, what you describe is a defensive horse in pain. And as you have now indicated, it's affected your confidence as the behaviour has deteriorated. Do yourself a favour and retire this horse before someone gets hurt. Yes it's absolutely heart breaking to make that final decision, but it is also part of responsible horse ownership to know when to give up.

I'm not sure at what point that I've said calmers, saddles or physio is going to solve the issue?
Since the November post, she has been mainly doing inhand work and specific exercises to increase the strength in her back and SI joint. The physio has not been finding the usual SI discomfort and she has been on the vets joint supplement. Her movement has improved massively.

However, I do appreciate everyone's advice.
I will retire her and hang up my own riding hat and call it a day. I can't see myself being confident enough to ride anything else now or at least not for a long time.

Thank you.

 

[onemoretime]

You may have already tried it but try giving her magnesium powder. I have a section D (and we all know what their like) shit himself at everything. Adding Magnesium to his feed did actually work just enough to steady him but not veg him out and loose his character. And it's not expensive give it time to work.

Agree with this. I give my mare 15mil of Cal Mag in her night feed and the difference it has made to her is incredibly. I buy it from Natural Horse Supplies and it is very cheap. I think with postage it comes to just over £7 and lasts quite some time. It may be worth trying this as it wont do any harm if it doesn't do any good.

 

[onemoretime]

Agree with this. I give my mare 15mil of Cal Mag in her night feed and the difference it has made to her is incredibly. I buy it from Natural Horse Supplies and it is very cheap. I think with postage it comes to just over £7 and lasts quite some time. It may be worth trying this as it wont do any harm if it doesn't do any good.

Having read through this thread and the problems that your horse has I dont think my suggestion above would work for you.

 

[Winters100]

[QUOTE="Ellietotz, post: 14611597, member: 114884"
I think it's time to retire her and hang up my own riding hat and call it a day.

Thank you.[/QUOTE]

Good decision in my opinion, well done for making it.

You may find that those on the yard who feel that she does not require retirement try to persuade you to keep trying. My advice would be not to get drawn into any long discussion, just tell them that you no longer want to ride her and have made a final decision. I would also say don't feel too sad about it. Horses can give us a lot, even when not ridden, and you will still have pleasure in spending time with her.

You will not have to give up the riding forever, at some point you may be able to afford 2, and until then could always look for someone who would welcome help exercising their horse, perhaps there is someone on your yard whose horse would benefit from being more active, or maybe even look for a share.

Good luck and I think your horse would say thank you if she knew of the decision that you have made.

 

[Ellietotz]

Good decision in my opinion, well done for making it.

You may find that those on the yard who feel that she does not require retirement try to persuade you to keep trying. My advice would be not to get drawn into any long discussion, just tell them that you no longer want to ride her and have made a final decision. I would also say don't feel too sad about it. Horses can give us a lot, even when not ridden, and you will still have pleasure in spending time with her.

You will not have to give up the riding forever, at some point you may be able to afford 2, and until then could always look for someone who would welcome help exercising their horse, perhaps there is someone on your yard whose horse would benefit from being more active, or maybe even look for a share.

Good luck and I think your horse would say thank you if she knew of the decision that you have made.

Thank you.
I've already been told I'm giving up on her.
I am heartbroken to not have those rides with her again where we had fun.

I can't see myself feeling confident to ride anything else either anymore and I used to be quite confident and up for riding anything.

 

[Flame_]

Thank you.
I've already been told I'm giving up on her.
I am heartbroken to not have those rides with her again where we had fun.

I can't see myself feeling confident to ride anything else either anymore and I used to be quite confident and up for riding anything.

You will, you're just done in from trying to sort something that just can't be sorted. IRL no one tells you to stop trying, I remember riding my miserable, lame horse - on vets advice trying to get him back in work and feeling totally awful and demoralised. I needed another livery to tell me how sad he looked and then another vet to tell me him ever being comfortable was a lost cause. Deep down I knew it myself, but its still really hard, especially when all around you you've got people telling you "try this, try that and then try the other". You'll feel much less anxious now you have made a decision to embrace not riding your mare and always wondering if and how much something is wrong.

You'll still be able to ride, when you want to you'll make it happen.

 

[Casey76]

There is *nothing wrong* with having a non-ridden horse.

It also doesn’t mean that they are banished to a field, never to be seen again. Summer is actually great for having a non-ridden horse, because you can spend so much time just hanging out with them.

Try something new, find some shaping plans you like and do some liberty work in the field, where she can walk away when she’s has enough. Go for in hand walks.

Learn to love being with your mare again, rather than being apprehensive about every outing. Your horsey life isn’t over, it’s just taking a new direction

 

[southerncomfort]

Do you have a trekking centre or similar anywhere near you? Or a RS that offers hacks?

To my mind their is nothing better than getting out trekking on a safe, reliable horse, to help build confidence and rekindle a love of riding.

Both will come back.

You've spent a long time trying to put a physically and mentally damaged horse back together again. It's credit to you that you got her as far as you did. You have an awful lot to offer another horse in the future so please don't give up.

 

[Dave's Mam]

Do you have a trekking centre or similar anywhere near you? Or a RS that offers hacks?

To my mind their is nothing better than getting out trekking on a safe, reliable horse, to help build confidence and rekindle a love of riding.

Both will come back.

You've spent a long time trying to put a physically and mentally damaged horse back together again. It's credit to you that you got her as far as you did. You have an awful lot to offer another horse in the future so please don't give up.

I did exactly this when on a downer. Went to South Wales & galloped along a beach & climbed through dunes on a safe little cob. What a good boost to your confidence.

 

[catembi]

FWIW, my boy went from being very laid back to v v reactive, explosive & spooky. It turned out to be PSSM n/p1, n/p3 & px/px, but I only got the diagnosis after I had been reduced to a quivering wreck from being spooked off/nearly spooked off. I retired him at the age of 7, & have found him a lovely loan home where he is a companion, & I have bought something else. The relief is immense. I hacked out this afternoon on my new boy for the first time in 18 months. On my last hack 18 months ago, half an hour in, my previous horse absolutely exploded & completely flipped out, I had to get off & lead him home & even that was a complete & utter nightmare.

When you're stuck in a situation, it can feel as if you're going to be there forever, but there ARE options. You COULD retire yours & find a loan home, then buy something else. It is such a lovely feeling to be back in the saddle and beginning to feel more confident.

 

[Ellietotz]

I have spoken to my partner and we have both agreed to looking at getting something else.
The debt from my current horse's vet bills will be cleared by the end of the year which will help massively.

I was excited at first but I'm just in a whirlwind of guilt and heartbreak.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

You won't need £4k to loan a horse, there is rarely a need even for a deposit/downpayment. You just pay the day-to-day costs.

 

[Ellietotz]

You won't need £4k to loan a horse, there is rarely a need even for a deposit/downpayment. You just pay the day-to-day costs.

The money would be the loan, not the horse. I'll edit it!

 

[PurBee]

I have spoken to my partner and we have both agreed to looking at getting something else.
The debt from my current horse's vet bills will be cleared by the end of the year which will help massively.

I was excited at first but I'm just in a whirlwind of guilt and heartbreak.

After the long and expensive journey of diagnostics you’ve got for her, for so long, as well as trying supplements and everything else, you truly, should never feel guilty about drawing a line, and retiring her.

All we can ever do is try, and you’ve been doing that for a long time helping your mare. She’s very lucky you care so much, and sometimes that caring extends to making decisions that are hard to make.

My plans with my horses haven’t transpired as i hoped, due to various reasons, so i’ve had to change my goals to suit them, shift my ideals. In hindsight, its been a great journey so far, as ive learnt much more about horses and enjoy many more aspects of interracting with them than i would have done if my plans had gone ahead as hoped.
There’s often a silver lining to plans gone awry, it’s a shame we can never know it at the time when we’re busy feeling disappointed things aren’t working out as planned.

Wishing you lots of luck finding your next mount, who i hope will give you the joy of riding again. Also i hope your new phase of retirement ownership brings a happier connection between you and your mare, once again.
X Hugs x

 

[Ellietotz]

Is it normal to feel this heartbroken?

I keep seeing her saddle pads at home and just breaking down in tears. Finding myself debating if there was more I could do, more investigations and treatment etc but I know it's probably all pointless now.

I just feel lost.

 

[Baywonder]

From what I have read from your posts, you have done absolutely everything you possibly can to help your little mare.

I think it is understandable you to feel like this, as you are grieving for something you are no longer able to do with her. When I first retired my old boy, I used to feel depressed at seeing other horses out on a hack, or going to the local show. My heart used to ache because I just wanted to do that again.

But, I was able to spend time with him from the ground, sitting in the stable or field with him, grooming him, or just generally being there and talking about anything and everything. It used to make my day when I went to the field and he came ambling over to me for a fuss. I lost him many years ago now, but I still have all of his tack, and I still get a pang of sadness every time I see it.

Don't be too hard on yourself. You just need to find a different routine to the one you have been used to.

 

[Ellietotz]

From what I have read from your posts, you have done absolutely everything you possibly can to help your little mare.

I think it is understandable you to feel like this, as you are grieving for something you are no longer able to do with her. When I first retired my old boy, I used to feel depressed at seeing other horses out on a hack, or going to the local show. My heart used to ache because I just wanted to do that again.

But, I was able to spend time with him from the ground, sitting in the stable or field with him, grooming him, or just generally being there and talking about anything and everything. It used to make my day when I went to the field and he came ambling over to me for a fuss. I lost him many years ago now, but I still have all of his tack, and I still get a pang of sadness every time I see it.

Don't be too hard on yourself. You just need to find a different routine to the one you have been used to.

Thank you.
I appreciate this.

I do spend more time in hand with her than I did riding and she follows me around everywhere like a lost dog. I'm just struggling to come to terms with it all and wish there was more I could do.

 

[Winters100]

Is it normal to feel this heartbroken?

I keep seeing her saddle pads at home and just breaking down in tears. Finding myself debating if there was more I could do, more investigations and treatment etc but I know it's probably all pointless now.

I just feel lost.

Really I think you need to remember that some things cannot be fixed, and that all of us who have older horses, or horses with issues, have to accept that stopping ridden work is not a question of 'if' but a question of 'when'.

Your horse is not missing being ridden, she needs this. And when the time is right you will ride again, even though you may feel quite sure right now that you will not.

Try to look at it from her point of view and see it as a welcome rest after a lifetime of giving her all. She has earned this, and in time I believe that you will come to see it as the right decision for both of you.

 

[McFluff]

Is it normal to feel this heartbroken?

I keep seeing her saddle pads at home and just breaking down in tears. Finding myself debating if there was more I could do, more investigations and treatment etc but I know it's probably all pointless now.

I just feel lost.

Yes
but it gets easier
the guilt is sort of connected to relief
hugs

 

[MagicMelon]

Can you try and work on de-sensitizing her at home? I did it with my sons pony, I built like a handy pony course in her field so it could safely be left out while she was turned out around it and she was lunged and then ridden round / past / under the things. She found umbrella's terrifying so I had little kids ones attached to jump wings and shredded plastic feed bags hanging off a jump pole high up so eventually she'd walk underneath it, tarpoline on the ground to walk over etc. I think it helped quite a bit, helped build trust too.

Otherwise if you really dont enjoy riding her anymore, can you consider loaning her out / selling? I always think theres someone for every horse out there.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Otherwise if you really dont enjoy riding her anymore, can you consider loaning her out / selling? I always think theres someone for every horse out there.

Please read the full thread .

 

[Ellietotz]

Can you try and work on de-sensitizing her at home? I did it with my sons pony, I built like a handy pony course in her field so it could safely be left out while she was turned out around it and she was lunged and then ridden round / past / under the things. She found umbrella's terrifying so I had little kids ones attached to jump wings and shredded plastic feed bags hanging off a jump pole high up so eventually she'd walk underneath it, tarpoline on the ground to walk over etc. I think it helped quite a bit, helped build trust too.

Otherwise if you really dont enjoy riding her anymore, can you consider loaning her out / selling? I always think theres someone for every horse out there.

I appreciate your advice. However, retirement due to an extensive medical history is the result of all of this now.

Too many issues for rehoming and wouldn't ever do that anyway.

Thank you though.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Can you try and work on de-sensitizing her at home? I did it with my sons pony, I built like a handy pony course in her field so it could safely be left out while she was turned out around it and she was lunged and then ridden round / past / under the things. She found umbrella's terrifying so I had little kids ones attached to jump wings and shredded plastic feed bags hanging off a jump pole high up so eventually she'd walk underneath it, tarpoline on the ground to walk over etc. I think it helped quite a bit, helped build trust too.

Otherwise if you really dont enjoy riding her anymore, can you consider loaning her out / selling? I always think theres someone for every horse out there.

Blimey! Have you read the thread MM? This horse appears to be in pain, she is not fit to be loaned out where the OP cannot see her and check on her welfare daily. You are correct there is someone for this horse -OP, who has her horse's best intersets at heart, which is why she has posted many threads about her horse's problems.

ETA, I wouldn't be leaving umbrellas hanging up in the field, somebody will poke their eye out!

 

[Ellietotz]

Really I think you need to remember that some things cannot be fixed, and that all of us who have older horses, or horses with issues, have to accept that stopping ridden work is not a question of 'if' but a question of 'when'.

Your horse is not missing being ridden, she needs this. And when the time is right you will ride again, even though you may feel quite sure right now that you will not.

Try to look at it from her point of view and see it as a welcome rest after a lifetime of giving her all. She has earned this, and in time I believe that you will come to see it as the right decision for both of you.

Thank you.

I'm just finding it really hard and would go to the ends of the earth for her.

Getting another horse is the last thing on my mind, I just can't even think about it.

She was essentially only in work for a couple of years of her life before being a field ornament for 5 years and then she came to me so I am sure she will enjoy it very much going back to that.