Hit an all time low with my horse :(

[Ellietotz]

Apologies my mistake. When you typed "I won't be getting back on her until [...]" I wrongly assumed that you had a plan ton get back on again.

Sorry, that's my mistake. Definitely didn't mean it like that! I don't have any hope she will be right to ride again so me being "absolutely certain she would be okay before" chances are very very very low and I'm not expecting her to be right. I'm just musing really to see if this is a magical cure!

 

[Bellaboo18]

I do think its sounds like you're hoping she'll come back in to work and you'll find a magical solution.

I really feel for you but think it sounds like you've continued for too long on this one.

I think you'll torture yourself if you always think, what if, what if and for that reason I'd say to yourself she's retired fullstop BUT that doesnt mean you cant get her more comfortable in retirement.

I've had amazing results with succeed conditioning programme. I'll PM you my experience incase it helps once I get back from the yard

ETA sorry this was cross posted with your last message

 

[Dyllymoo]

I've not read the whole thread but I know we had some communication when I was looking into J's issues. Unfortunately I do think she is telling you she is in pain (especially with all her complex medical history) and that its time to stop either retire her if she is happy or PTS.

 

[Ellietotz]

She looks good (to me) when she wants to. ?

 

[milliepops]

I'm really sorry ellie but i think you can still see she's lame behind on those turns.

 

[brighteyes]

The bowen lady sounds to be barking, tbh, but an imbalanced gut biome can really be a thing.

There is a company which will analyse your horse's gut biome and then suggest any tweaks to the diet which can help restore a healthier gut flora. One of mine is having her poo analysed now on a vet's suggestion, but it takes 8 - 10 weeks for the results to come back. Vet has known of some significant improvements after changes to the diet after this.

https://www.equibiome.org/

Bowen lady's blanket diet change suggestions are just fluff, though.

It's not cheap, either! Please let us know the findings.

 

[Ellietotz]

I'm really sorry ellie but i think you can still see she's lame behind on those turns.

Yeah, I can see that. It's so hard because I share the yard with her breeder who was the only owner before me who confirms she has always moved like this even as a foal so I am told she can't be uncomfortable if this is just how she moves. I've had multiple vets and physios see her who all agree she is sound for her way of going so there is nothing specific that we can find causing her to move this way. I suppose like someone who walks with a bounce doesn't mean it causes them discomfort, just how they move. I still haven't viewed any new horses!

(Just before anyone bites my head off, I'm just musing/discussing.)

 

[Dyllymoo]

Hmmmm I wouldn't agree with that. Just because they have always moved like that doesn't mean they are not in pain.

J had a big moving trot and I was repeatedly told he looked amazing when he left the YO to go to the field but he was still uncomfortable.

 

[Michen]

Yeah, I can see that. It's so hard because I share the yard with her breeder who was the only owner before me who confirms she has always moved like this even as a foal so I am told she can't be uncomfortable if this is just how she moves. I've had multiple vets and physios see her who all agree she is sound for her way of going so there is nothing specific that we can find causing her to move this way. I suppose like someone who walks with a bounce doesn't mean it causes them discomfort, just how they move. I still haven't viewed any new horses!

(Just before anyone bites my head off, I'm just musing/discussing.)

How she moves is largely irrelevant though. It’s how she behaves that’s the biggest indicator here.

Fingers crossed you see something you want to view soon. X

 

[milliepops]

if it's been determined to be a mechanical lameness then I still wouldn't call that sound "for her way of going" it's still a lameness

echo Michen, hope you find something new to ride soon.

 

[brighteyes]

Yeah, I can see that. It's so hard because I share the yard with her breeder who was the only owner before me who confirms she has always moved like this even as a foal so I am told she can't be uncomfortable if this is just how she moves. I've had multiple vets and physios see her who all agree she is sound for her way of going so there is nothing specific that we can find causing her to move this way. I suppose like someone who walks with a bounce doesn't mean it causes them discomfort, just how they move. I still haven't viewed any new horses!

(Just before anyone bites my head off, I'm just musing/discussing.)

I believe being mechanically lame (ie due to a leg being shorter than the other, say) is different to lameness through pain but you may well get compensatory issues elsewhere which DO cause pain.

 

[Ellietotz]

I believe being mechanically lame (ie due to a leg being shorter than the other, say) is different to lameness through pain but you may well get compensatory issues elsewhere which DO cause pain.

Very true, I believe it is mechanical as the vets and physios have said but I feel it causes some sort of SI discomfort if just left.
As far as I'm aware, the injections to her SI joint didn't "work" as I'd expected, I assume I was probably looking for a miraculous change in her way of going but if it was mechanical, maybe it did take any discomfort away but nothing else. I didn't really think there was a change in her behaviour, always been happy to hack out, always been spooky except when she was on Topspec Calmer according to my records which I discovered today. Always spooky when the YO was riding her too a few years before that so could be the arab, warmblood, TB breeding equally.
Although the Bowen Therapist thinks it isn't SI joint or anything else but gut and she has often had right side issues, eating other poo etc. ?
However, saying that, from a video of her 5 years a go before I took her on, she moved really quite badly, really really short on the back and she is miles better now after a good few years of careful work to build up her strength so hopefully it doesn't deteriorate back to that.

 

[Tiddlypom]

OP, your mare's ridden days are over. Please accept that. Her misbehaviour when ridden clearly shows that, so please do not allow yourself to be railroaded into having yet another go at riding.

It's not cheap, either! Please let us know the findings.

You're right, it isn't cheap, but I consider it money well spent (was on vet's advice). I posted the update on another thread. My mare's gut flora is way off. She may still only be a pasture ornament, but I will make sure that she is as comfortable a pasture ornament as possible.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/has-anyone-had-the-equibiome-test-done.796673/

 

[Ellietotz]

OP, your mare's ridden days are over. Please accept that. Her misbehaviour when ridden clearly shows that, so please do not allow yourself to be railroaded into having yet another go at riding. You're right, it isn't cheap, but I consider it money well spent (was on vet's advice). I posted the update on another thread. My mare's gut flora is way off. She may still only be a pasture ornament, but I will make sure that she is as comfortable a pasture ornament as possible.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/has-anyone-had-the-equibiome-test-done.796673/

This is why I said I was just musing and discussing before anyone bites my head off.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

OP, your horse looks very tense in the way that she is holding herself in your video clip.

 

[Ellietotz]

OP, your horse looks very tense in the way that she is holding herself in your video clip.

Yes, supposedly this is because of her gut according to Bowen lady ?

 

[brighteyes]

OP, your mare's ridden days are over. Please accept that. Her misbehaviour when ridden clearly shows that, so please do not allow yourself to be railroaded into having yet another go at riding. You're right, it isn't cheap, but I consider it money well spent (was on vet's advice). I posted the update on another thread. My mare's gut flora is way off. She may still only be a pasture ornament, but I will make sure that she is as comfortable a pasture ornament as possible.

https://forums.horseandhound.co.uk/threads/has-anyone-had-the-equibiome-test-done.796673/

Lol! I replied on that very (confusing and inconclusive) thread - doh...

 

[scats]

Sometimes their perceived level of unsoundness doesn’t always match the behaviour.
My little mare Polly is 1/10 lame behind on a small circle on the right rein but she trots sound after a few laps. Trotting around a field, or even lunging on the left rein, she looks far sounded than your mare does (I don’t mean that horribly, simply stating a fact)
She passes flexions behind and is 100% sound in a straight line. Yet you ask her to canter on the lunge or under saddle and she has a meltdown. If you finally get a canter, it goes disunited and she starts to land the back legs together. She has the mildest case of PSD that the vets can actually determine on a scan and her behaviour absolutely should not match the very minimal result. But it does.
She cannot stand up to anything more than walk and trot and I have accepted this. My mare is only 11. The second she tells me that any sort of riding is an issue, she will retire.
I think sometimes you just have to accept that a horse isn’t up to work and there isn’t always a logical explanation or a definite answer.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

I dont mean to sound horrible, you obviously love her, but she's done as a ridden horse....she needs to be retired. It feels a little as though you are looking for every possible loophole/excuse to continue riding her, like you don't want to accept it. She's seriously not happy, both her behaviour and movement shows this...please, please just do the right thing now

 

[Ellietotz]

Jesus... I only wanted to have a simple discussion.
And actually, despite many beliefs, I've listened to everyone here on HHO over my own vets, physios and instructor's advice on my horse that they have physically seen in person!
I think it's time I leave for a bit.
Thanks again.

 

[Meredith]

Ellietotz I am sorry that you have had to retire your horse. You are being selfless in making that decision and showing how much you care. We all wish our horses would last for ever but unfortunately they don’t.
I hope you can find enjoyment in another riding horse in the future.

 

[NR88]

Jesus... I only wanted to have a simple discussion.
And actually, despite many beliefs, I've listened to everyone here on HHO over my own vets, physios and instructor's advice on my horse that they have physically seen in person!
I think it's time I leave for a bit.
Thanks again.

A simple discussion about what?

On every thread that you have posted about your mare's issues and in reply to every video the overwhelming majority have all said that she needs to be completely retired from ridden work.

After every thread you have continued to ride her and then post another identical thread.

So what would you like to discuss this time? I rather feel that anyone replying to you is banging their head against a brick wall with relief only coming when they stop.

You have ridden her since receiving advice not to on this thread. Do not worry I do not expect you to admit it, in fact I expect you to vehemently deny it, but YOU know and your mare knows and that is all that matters at the end of the day.

It does not matter what the good and the great post on here, you are still going to do what you want to do regardless of anyone else.

As Satans Little Helper has said, you are waiting for someone to agree with you to ease your conscience. (Apologies Satans helper if I have misconstrued your meaning).

That is also quite apparent from how you are clinging to the alleged words of the Bowen lady. So far all that you have posted of her supposed advice is complete poppycock.

It is hard having a horse, hard keeping a horse that you cannot ride, hard keeping a horse when you have financial constraints, hard doing right by them when you can make up "get out" clauses, hard choosing to put a horse down. You choose your hard and that choice should always be for the benefit and welfare of the animal that you chose to take ownership of.

Edited for grammar

 

[shortstuff99]

If I was you OP and you could afford it I would do the biome test purely for peace of mind. Whether it changes anything who knows.

Whether the horse will ever come right or needs to be permanently retired no one on here will know.

It is your horse at the end of the day and while you can take advice from here you can also take advice from elsewhere and make different decisions. It is all up to you and what you are comfortable with.

 

[Ellietotz]

A simple discussion about what?

On every thread that you have posted about your mare's issues and in reply to every video the overwhelming majority have all said that she needs to be completely retired from ridden work.

After every thread you have continued to ride her and then post another identical thread.

So what would you like to discuss this time? I rather feel that anyone replying to you is banging their head against a brick wall with relief only coming when they stop.

You have ridden her since receiving advice not to on this thread. Do not worry I do not expect you to admit it, in fact I expect you to vehemently deny it, but YOU know and your mare knows and that is all that matters at the end of the day.

It does not matter what the good and the great post on here, you are still going to do what you want to do regardless of anyone else.

As Satans Little Helper has said, you are waiting for someone to agree with you to ease your conscience. (Apologies Satans helper if I have misconstrued your meaning).

That is also quite apparent from how you are clinging to the alleged words of the Bowen lady. So far all that you have posted of her supposed advice is complete poppycock.

It is hard having a horse, hard keeping a horse that you cannot ride, hard keeping a horse when you have financial constraints, hard doing right by them when you can make up "get out" clauses, hard choosing to put a horse down. You choose your hard and that choice should always be for the benefit and welfare of the animal that you chose to take ownership of.

Edited for grammar

Pretty unnecessary and unkind response.
I'm not here to justify what I have done with my own horse other than the fact I have listened to my vets and my physios who's opinions I trust, who know my horse in real life and spent years treating her. God forbid I listen to them over a forum. ?‍

 

[NR88]

Pretty unnecessary and unkind response.
I'm not here to justify what I have done with my own horse other than the fact I have listened to my vets and my physios who's opinions I trust, who know my horse in real life and spent years treating her. God forbid I listen to them over a forum. ?‍

You do not have to justify anything to anyone on here; only yourself and your horse.

You have however lied and said that you have not ridden your horse when you have. That is on you.

No one has said that you must follow the advice or opinions of any poster on here. You are the one that has consistently asked for these opinions and advice over a multitude of threads and posts. You are the one who has said that you have done A but really you have done B.

It is your poor horse and not a thing anyone on here can do so I very much doubt that it is skin off anyone's nose, certainly not mine, that you are continuing to ride her. One can only look after their own. It has always been glaringly obvious that you have and will continue to ride regardless so why even make posts like you have in here claiming to have retired her from ridden work? What discussions do you want to have about this, especially since the information you provide is false?

The majority of posters are all singing from the same hymn page. You clearly do not want to listen so why keep posting? Surely to save yourself the stress that you are creating it would be better to keep quiet while you continue to ride a lame horse that you have splashed all over a public forum.

I apologise if you are under 18 but I believe that you have to be an adult to post on here. As such you must be aware of the consequences and permanency of posting such details on a public forum. If you are a child then I suggest you seek parental guidance before you continue posting.

 

[Ellietotz]

It is your horse at the end of the day and while you can take advice from here you can also take advice from elsewhere and make different decisions. It is all up to you and what you are comfortable with.

Thank you.
Not sure I can make different decisions without being made to feel like I'm abusing my horse so I will keep my discussions about her between me and my vets and physio going forwards as they know best.

 

[Ellietotz]

You do not have to justify anything to anyone on here; only yourself and your horse.

You have however lied and said that you have not ridden your horse when you have. That is on you.

No one has said that you must follow the advice or opinions of any poster on here. You are the one that has consistently asked for these opinions and advice over a multitude of threads and posts. You are the one who has said that you have done A but really you have done B.

It is your poor horse and not a thing anyone on here can do so I very much doubt that it is skin off anyone's nose, certainly not mine, that you are continuing to ride her. One can only look after their own. It has always been glaringly obvious that you have and will continue to ride regardless so why even make posts like you have in here claiming to have retired her from ridden work? What discussions do you want to have about this, especially since the information you provide is false?

The majority of posters are all singing from the same hymn page. You clearly do not want to listen so why keep posting? Surely to save yourself the stress that you are creating it would be better to keep quiet while you continue to ride a lame horse that you have splashed all over a public forum.

I apologise if you are under 18 but I believe that you have to be an adult to post on here. As such you must be aware of the consequences and permanency of posting such details on a public forum. If you are a child then I suggest you seek parental guidance before you continue posting.

How would you know what I have and haven't been doing with my own horse unless you have somehow been stalking me? Which is honestly just weird. Believe it or not, I have lots of pictures of me riding my horse if that's what you have seen though I stick by how odd it is how much you are claiming to know about me.

I also made this thread about her spooking, I wasn't looking for advice on anything else.

My horse and what I do for her is my choice. The vets have not declared her lame. Three different practices in fact and several different physios plus literally thousands of pounds on work ups so if I choose to go with their advice as they are professionals so shoot me.

 

[TPO]

Maybe best to stop posting

ETA sorry not being forum police just if you are happy with vet advice then perhaps stick to working with them

 

[shortstuff99]

Thank you.
Not sure I can make different decisions without being made to feel like I'm abusing my horse so I will keep my discussions about her between me and my vets and physio going forwards as they know best.

Good luck with whatever you decide, I hope you are being kind to yourself too.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

As Satans Little Helper has said, you are waiting for someone to agree with you to ease your conscience. (Apologies Satans helper if I have misconstrued your meaning).

You got my meaning perfectly

Ellietotz you might thing you are being picked on but at the end of the day you cannot post the things you have and expect that people are going to agree with you surely..??!! I'm trying really hard not to be rude but you really seem to be uninterested in any advice or opinion that goes against yours. Ultimately this is your horse and your conscience. Why post here if you are so sure that what you are doing is right..?? You are riding an unhappy and lame horse....that doesn't convince anyone that you have her best interests at heart