Horse being hit around the head

[Flame_]

I have to say I think the good / bad done by shooting is nuanced it’s extremely complicated .
Helping wildlife does not spring to the front of my mind .

The only place I see deer around here is on the shooting estate! More shooting and hunting estates please!! Everywhere else they'd be mowed down by knobheads in seconds, not they'd want to hang around in the concrete built up mess anyway.

 

[Kaylum]

Shouldn't we as the equestrian community be saying this behaviour is unacceptable in any situation. Not blame someone else for the behaviour being filmed.

My husband said he had seen the film and it put a really bad name on horse people. He is not horsey.

 

[AmyMay]

I haven't seen that she is a HM? Just involved with the PC?

I did see it mentioned on one fb post that she was a HM.

 

[fetlock]

Agree with this post, I think she was trying to demonstrate how 'badass' she was to the people filming/harassing her.
yes the correction was totally disproportionate but I think it was a 'get any closer to me and the kids and you're next' kind of thing. That and the fact that a loose horse on a public highway is a danger to itself and others and would have ramped up the tension further.
As for all the outraged posters. I can remember posters asking for advice on an errant horse being advised on imaginative ways to use blue pipe. A lot of 'road to Damascus' moments since then apparently.
Well done to the Cottesmore though. A bunch of sabs couldn't find anything other than a lone women and some kids trying to load ponies.

A loose horse on a country lane does not merit several whacks to its head and a boot in it's chest as its reward for quietly and calmly walking a few yards to a handler.

I could kind of excuse it, had it been one slap as a instantaneous reaction when in shock to something really scary happening and instinct is to strike out but this wasn't that at all - a kick, then the series of hard slaps when, if anything, a calming pat would have been in order.

The hysteria over it is one matter but let's not condone what she did. There really isn't any excuse for it.

 

[Sussexbythesea]

To be honest I'm more afraid of it being used against the whole horse community.

The general public won't differentiate between a rider that hunts and one that doesn't. All they'll see is a rider punching her horse in the face for seemingly no reason.

It reflects badly on ALL of us and that's why we must not EVER defend this sort of behaviour.

As a community we do need to stamp this behaviour out wherever it occurs and that’s difficult if you’re the only person trying to do it. At organised shows and events there needs to be strong policy followed by decisive action if this kind of behaviour is witnessed. More people would stand up to it if they thought they would get support. People are much less likely to do it if there are consequences.

I called a teenager out a few years ago when she was smacking her horse around after she’d had a bad round. There were plenty of other people around at the RC event that ignored the behaviour.

 

[MotherOfChickens]

Ah, Scotland!! Another country indeed. One thing I have noticed and discussed with friends is how, hereabouts, poverty has been, for wildlife and community in part, a social good; it has prevented all sorts of 'improvement' and development with the result that nature/wildlife has a better shot at things. A lot of hill farmers either don't need or can't afford fertilisers etc and don't have time and energy to 'keep things tidy' which seems like an increasingly suburban influence in the countryside. In the same way, for communities there are not the same levels of disparity in wealth and poverty though I am far from denying really serious social problems and deprivation in the countryside. It just feels a bit as if it is less bad generally than where intensive agriculture, development and suburbanisation/gentrification has taken place.

We have curlew, peregrines, masses of kite, buzzards, ravens, polecats, stoats and weasels as well as otters, badgers, foxes, deer, wild pigs and all manner of 'general' bird life and dark skies. Where I used to live we had nightingales though their disappearance was something that brought me to realise how utterly vital it is to look after those habitats and threatened species.

I know it is very different where there is far more pressure on land and populations and more money to 'improve' things.

there's something to be said for living on land thats so wet, no other ***** wants to live here and not much can be grown here. Of course, if farming gets thrown to th wall, they will just plant spruce because nothing else will grow.

 

[Gloi]

I know we really differ in perspectives on this sort of thing @ycbm but I would ask you to consider the safety of your own wildlife; you have incredibly threatened curlew on your ground I understand. I am sure that you have researched the threats to those ground nesting birds which you are very lucky to have but if you haven't it may be worth you devising your own plan for protecting them. I completely understand not wanting to have magpies or buzzards shot by someone else, or at all but it is vital that if ground nesting birds are to survive (and curlew are on the absolute brink of survival) that predation on them is reduced somehow. There are a number of threats which you may be able to mitigate in ways that you are happy with. That has nothing to do with pheasants by the way, but predators!

There were curlew nesting in a field near me last year and the field got cut for silage while they were nesting and I haven't seen any this year ?

 

[Red-1]

If the name I just saw being bandied about on SM is correct, it will impact her employment in a school.

I do hope people have got the right person, being accused of this would be awful anyway, but if people are told it was you, and it wasn't, my sense of justice would find that worse.

If it is the correct person, I wouldn't like to be the head teacher trying to sort out the fallout. I would imagine there will be disruption to learning at school this week. I would imagine the daughter is having an awful day either way. The same with the PC, if it is the person named, I can't imagine that it would be good publicity to keep her on as coach, however good a teacher she is.

I do think it should have been passed to the RSPCA privately. I agree that it is because of the hunting connection that it has been done so publicly. I do think that the public fallout will make employment in teaching or equestrianism difficult. That could be a pity as, if this is the correct person, she may well be an excellent classroom teacher who could be lost to the profession.

However, I also think that it will make people think very carefully about striking a horse in anger, which has to be a good thing.

 

[palo1]

there's something to be said for living on land thats so wet, no other ***** wants to live here and not much can be grown here. Of course, if farming gets thrown to th wall, they will just plant spruce because nothing else will grow.

Yes, and that would be utterly disastrous

 

[Fellewell]

A loose horse on a country lane does not merit several whacks to its head and a boot in it's chest as its reward for quietly and calmly walking a few yards to a handler.

I could kind of excuse it, had it been one slap as a instantaneous reaction when in shock to something really scary happening and instinct is to strike out but this wasn't that at all - a kick, then the series of hard slaps when, if anything, a calming pat would have been in order.

The hysteria over it is one matter but let's not condone what she did. There really isn't any excuse for it.

I'll say it again, the correction was totally disproportionate. A bit like this witch-hunt.

 

[palo1]

There were curlew nesting in a field near me last year and the field got cut for silage while they were nesting and I haven't seen any this year ?

Oh god that is dreadful The farmers in these parts thankfully are generally very protective and very, very careful about curlew and that obviously helps other things.

There is a slight 'We haven't got much money but we do have curlews' one-upmanship thing too which is quite comical - two old boys in flat caps and trousers held up with good will alone leaning over a knackered gate looking at a boggy field deciding who has the better curlews...lol!!

Sorry, didn't mean to derail the thread.

 

[SO1]

I expect both organisations are taking legal advice or advice from public relations agency about what to say to the media. They may not have easy access to this yesterday which was a non working day.

I suspect the fall out from this is going to be pretty huge. The lady’s been named all over sm, her place of work identified and National press picking up on the story.

But still no official statement from the Cottesmore or Hunting Office ??‍

 

[windand rain]

To be honest the witch hunt is far far worse than the crime. The pony will likely have forgotten all about it happy in its well fed world. The crucifying of the woman especially impacting on her employment and social life is horrific. You dont see many sabs filming the top illegal crime round here that of Hare coursing because they are terrified of the element that do it. Police try hard but the coursers are usually tipped off or moved on before they get there. Any type of animal cruelty is abhorrent but so is abandoning responsibility to teach manners to animals and young people. Never threaten what you are not prepared to carry through. I think I would be inclined to prosecute whoever filmed it too as incitement

 

[ycbm]

I know we really differ in perspectives on this sort of thing @ycbm but I would ask you to consider the safety of your own wildlife; you have incredibly threatened curlew on your ground I understand. I am sure that you have researched the threats to those ground nesting birds which you are very lucky to have but if you haven't it may be worth you devising your own plan for protecting them. I completely understand not wanting to have magpies or buzzards shot by someone else, or at all but it is vital that if ground nesting birds are to survive (and curlew are on the absolute brink of survival) that predation on them is reduced somehow. There are a number of threats which you may be able to mitigate in ways that you are happy with. That has nothing to do with pheasants by the way, but predators!

There are plenty of curlew around here thanks Palo, they don't seem to need any extra help from me. There were at least as many, possibly more, before someone killed the magpie and buzzards.

 

[Winters100]

Well done to the Cottesmore though. A bunch of sabs couldn't find anything other than a lone women and some kids trying to load ponies.

The problem is that this attitude is exactly what causes problems for hunting. The hunt have not come forward to say that they have identified the person and banned them from hunting, they have not even said that they are investigating and will take appropriate action. Perhaps the woman has been admonished by the hunt, or perhaps there is a lot of sympathy for her being riled up by the "bunch of sabs" referred to above. Either way I would not be congratulating the hunt, and I certainly do not view the incident as simply a woman with some children trying to load ponies. The poor pony did not 'canter into the road' as reported by some media, he was simply not asked correctly to load, the child dropped the lead rope, and he jogged over to the other horse and allowed himself to be caught. Hardly a terrifying situation, and certainly not the fault of the pony. This was a disgraceful display of temper by an adult who should have known better.

Edited to add that it is a real shame that things are like this with hunting. A friend of mine hunts, and has many times offered to give me a horse and take me along when I visit the UK, but I would not want to be associated with this kind of activity. If there was an opportunity to do some genuine activity, trail hunt or similar, which did not involve surreptitiously chasing foxes / trampling people's gardens etc then I would love it, but as things are I would not want to be involved.

 

[SO1]

A good teacher is not violent towards an animal in front of a child.

This is just awful for the child involved and I think it will be very difficult for this person to get employment again. Hopefully she is not a single parent and the child does not lose her pony or get into dire straits as a result of her mother actions.

I appreciate emotions run high and I expect things end up on social media due to lack of faith that organisations will deal with these incidents internally appropriately. Reporting her behaviour to the hunt would have probably got nowhere and the RSPCA probably would not have done anything either as the horse has to be practically dead before they seem to take action.

If the name I just saw being bandied about on SM is correct, it will impact her employment in a school.

I do hope people have got the right person, being accused of this would be awful anyway, but if people are told it was you, and it wasn't, my sense of justice would find that worse.

If it is the correct person, I wouldn't like to be the head teacher trying to sort out the fallout. I would imagine there will be disruption to learning at school this week. I would imagine the daughter is having an awful day either way. The same with the PC, if it is the person named, I can't imagine that it would be good publicity to keep her on as coach, however good a teacher she is.

I do think it should have been passed to the RSPCA privately. I agree that it is because of the hunting connection that it has been done so publicly. I do think that the public fallout will make employment in teaching or equestrianism difficult. That could be a pity as, if this is the correct person, she may well be an excellent classroom teacher who could be lost to the profession.

However, I also think that it will make people think very carefully about striking a horse in anger, which has to be a good thing.

 

[Tiddlypom]

If the name I just saw being bandied about on SM is correct, it will impact her employment in a school.

That's the name that I've seen being spread around. The school seems to have frozen its FB page.

IF she is the woman in the video, then I would not want my child entrusted to the care of someone with such a temper. I imagine that I would not be alone in that. So IF it is her, this is potentially career ending.

 

[YorksG]

A good teacher is not violent towards an animal in front of a child.

This is just awful for the child involved and I think it will be very difficult for this person to get employment again. Hopefully she is not a single parent and the child does not lose her pony or get into dire straits as a result of her mother actions.

I appreciate emotions run high and I expect things end up on social media due to lack of faith that organisations will deal with these incidents internally appropriately. Reporting her behaviour to the hunt would have probably got nowhere and the RSPCA probably would not have done anything either as the horse has to be practically dead before they seem to take action.

This ended up on social media because a self styled expert, who has a large presence on a publicly owned broadcaster, felt it appropriate to put it on social media, in the guise of drawing the attention of the RSPCA

 

[AdorableAlice]

I suspect the fall out from this is going to be pretty huge. The lady’s been named all over sm, her place of work identified and National press picking up on the story.

But still no official statement from the Cottesmore or Hunting Office ??‍

Disgraceful behaviour, poor pony and you do have to wonder what goes on at home. The fall out will be huge, but would the incident have got to national press etc if the incident had happened in the lorry park of a county show, a dressage show, a pleasure ride, hunter trial etc etc ?

Of course it would not, whoever saw it happen in those settings might have commented to the secretary or to the woman herself, or maybe just climbed into their lorry muttering how awful it was. It has got as far as it has because it was in the hunting setting, not because of the appalling treatment of the pony.

 

[ycbm]

The only place I see deer around here is on the shooting estate! More shooting and hunting estates please!! Everywhere else they'd be mowed down by knobheads in seconds, not they'd want to hang around in the concrete built up mess anyway.

I had a red deer hoof print in my arena last week ?
.

 

[Flame_]

I had a red deer hoof print in my arena last week ?
.

Well I'm very jealous, but isn't that mainly because you're surrounded by shooting estates not housing estates?

 

[SO1]

I think a lot of people in the horse community have just given up reporting things to officials because nothing happens.

This sort of behaviour happens at a show you report it to an official and I can almost guarantee nothing would happen or possibly at best an official saying "that is inappropriate please do not do that again" there would no banning them from competing or removal of qualification. People who been prosecuted are still allowed to complete they change their name, run their horse via family member of another professional but most of time people don't get any ban.

I do think that this person is probably not a suitable person to be a teacher if they struggle to control their temper in front of child.

I do think social media should be the last resort if you have not got a satisfactory result from other organisations.

Sadly there is more publicity about this then there has been for the pony killed by fireworks or some worst case of cruelty like the Kate G case. I think this is a result of the association with hunting and the distrust of the general public and a lot of celebs of the hunting community.

This is the 3rd high profile case with hunting this year following the sad death of a child and the problem with webinars.

Disgraceful behaviour, poor pony and you do have to wonder what goes on at home. The fall out will be huge, but would the incident have got to national press etc if the incident had happened in the lorry park of a county show, a dressage show, a pleasure ride, hunter trial etc etc ?

Of course it would not, whoever saw it happen in those settings might have commented to the secretary or to the woman herself, or maybe just climbed into their lorry muttering how awful it was. It has got as far as it has because it was in the hunting setting, not because of the appalling treatment of the pony.

 

[ycbm]

Well I'm very jealous, but isn't that mainly because you're surrounded by shooting estates not housing estates?

Clever ?, I like it.

It's because I live in a National Park, I don't think the shooting has anything to do with it. We have a number of small herds of red deer which live in local wooded areas.

I've seen them on my field before but it's the first time I've seen a hoofprint in my arena, I did a double take.

 

[kc921]

I would also want to know the source of the video, and the date an time an possibly context.

In what possible context, time or date does this even matter?
There is no excuse to treat a horse in such a way under any context.
What is wrong with people

 

[Berpisc]

Well I'm very jealous, but isn't that mainly because you're surrounded by shooting estates not housing estates?

We are tenants on a shooting estate, they have improved vastly over the last 25 years, we have a sound population of raptors and plenty of deer. We also have a population of lampers and poachers who dont give a rats anal orifice about the law and are not botherd who they intimidate. Not seen on SM or the telly.

 

[spotty_pony]

Just watched as it’s one of my local packs - just trying to identify who it is!! Stupid behaviour and totally unnecessary.

 

[AmyMay]

I expect both organisations are taking legal advice or advice from public relations agency about what to say to the media. They may not have easy access to this yesterday which was a non working day.

Yes, I’m sure you’re right.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Recent update from BBC, who rarely report on anything negative to hunting, unlike ITV.

No confirmed name yet.

Anger after woman filmed kicking and hitting horse https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-59208702

The video has over 2 million views.

 

[Clodagh]

I think it’s rather extreme to suggest she shouldn’t be a teacher.
There’s a huge outcry when people say if their dog gets attacked ‘it might be a child next’ . She walloped a pony, which was wrong, I doubt she’ll be punching children at school next week.
This thread gets more bonkers by the minute!

 

[skinnydipper]

Whatever her occupation, she is, in my opinion, not a nice person.

If I had children I would not be happy if one of their role models kicked and punched animals.