horse market seems a bit overpriced!??

[throwawayaccount]

I've started looking at horses and ponies for sale (I shouldn't be!! but i'm looking anyway). I enquired about one mare, looked sweet enough but not much info - got a reply, the owner was honest that the pony had been diagnosed recently with ligament issues and was being sold for nearly 2.5k. decided to pass on that, so carried on looking and had a nosy on preloved. 3k for a rearer?! then 3.5k for a pony that napped and had issues engaging itself correctly.

the only thing I can say about these ads is that they were candid about the issues, but the amount of money being asked for a horse with issues seems ridiculous?

I probably won't have a massive budget if I do get another, 4k max- starting to think this is unrealistic

 

[Havital]

I am in the exact same boat. Been looking since January now and haven’t even found one worth viewing (in my opinion). The prices are mental along with what I find rather unhelpful owners who don’t answer all the questions you ask? Frustrating!

 

[Bernster]

Yup. There have been a few threads where people have written the same. An odd outcome of COVID to some extent, and I‘ll admit my looking for a 2nd is partly COVID related (more spare cash, more time, feeling like life’s too short so do what you want when you want etc...). But I also think horses have been underpriced for a while, and haven’t moved in line with other markets, and breeders need to make a decent profit, so to some extent I’m ok with it. Not sure if they will reduce again or if this is a ‘correction’ that’ll stick.

 

[Scotsbadboy]

Join the party, its been crazy for a year. I have noticed a lot of poorly bred, 'meat market' types for want of a better phrase, now resurfacing for sale, still with a high price and a few more issues thrown in for good measure

It seems like a lot of people went rummaging in their fields, dragged in the bin end and broken types, threw a saddle on and listed them for sale to try and make a few quid in the COVID craziness!

 

[Goldenstar]

There’s an difference between advertising and selling so how many of these broken horses achieve high prices remains to be seen .
However nice horses are selling well and quickly for good prices .
Older all rounders are fetching good money and so they should these horses where underpriced for a long time .

 

[Michen]

There's a connie whose done BE80 and one 90 on for 18k at the moment, nuts.

 

[Roasted Chestnuts]

It’s stupid to be fair and won’t last

 

[throwawayaccount]

There’s an difference between advertising and selling so how many of these broken horses achieve high prices remains to be seen .
However nice horses are selling well and quickly for good prices .
Older all rounders are fetching good money and so they should these horses where underpriced for a long time .

i'd quite like an older all rounder!!

 

[Ample Prosecco]

There's a connie whose done BE80 and one 90 on for 18k at the moment, nuts.

Wow that's nuts! Potential FEI on the way up the levels? Or just a normal BE90 pony?

 

[The Jokers Girl]

I think I may be in the minority that sees this as a good thing. When horses were cheap/cheaper far too many people could buy them but then not afford to care for them, or they were given away due to issues but dressed up and sold on for lives they were not suitable for.
Now prices are much higher those that cannot afford the 4k for a low level horse most certainly won't be able to afford the ongoing care that that horse will require

 

[Wishfilly]

People have been saying this won't last since about this time last year, and although the market isn't as mad as it was last summer, prices definitely haven't crashed.

FWIW, I bought my pony for within your budget last autumn. He's green, but no major issues. That said, he's only 14hh, and probably wouldn't suit being a first pony, so his market was a bit limited. If you want a horse, then I don't think 4k will go very far at the moment unfortunately.

If you're able to save what you'd spend on a horse each month, then your budget will soon increase.

I don't think the price increases for decent horses are a bad thing, but I do think some people are taking advantage of the market to offload horses that probably shouldn't be sold. And buyers are under pressure when the market is moving quickly, which I don't think is always a good thing for the horse.

 

[conniegirl]

Now prices are much higher those that cannot afford the 4k for a low level horse most certainly won't be able to afford the ongoing care that that horse will require

Ermm well that is just blatantly untrue.
I certainly couldnt justify £4k on a horse but can definitely afford to keep a horse or even multiple horses.
I got my lad for a lot less than £4k and he is certainly not a low level pony.

 

[QuantockHills]

my boy's half brother was up for sale for £12,500... and has sold and gone to America..... I paid less than 4k as a 3 year old and thought he was probably worth about 7k now... but recent prices, i'd put him up for 10K now!
it's absolutely ridiculous....

 

[smolmaus]

Ermm well that is just blatantly untrue.
I certainly couldnt justify £4k on a horse but can definitely afford to keep a horse or even multiple horses.
I got my lad for a lot less than £4k and he is certainly not a low level pony.

It would be true for me, as a person who would be buying their first horse and keeping it at livery. I think that is the person who has been pushing the prices up, rather than people who already have horses or who can keep them at home. People who already had the time and finances before lockdown weren't the ones impulse buying as soon as lockdown hit and sky rocketing the market.

If you're able to save what you'd spend on a horse each month, then your budget will soon increase.

Exactly this. If the price hike has stopped some people who are just slightly more impulsive than me buying a horse or pony they really shouldn't have then some good will have come out of it I suppose.

 

[TPO]

Ermm well that is just blatantly untrue.
I certainly couldnt justify £4k on a horse but can definitely afford to keep a horse or even multiple horses.
I got my lad for a lot less than £4k and he is certainly not a low level pony.

I agree as I've never paid 4k+ for a horse but on the other hand I agree with Jokers Girl as horses are too easy got.

Going back years to my Saturday job in a Saddlery and I had novice customers in buying stuff for newly purchased horses after having had 10 riding lessons (grand sum of horse experience). It was cheaper to buy a horse (ex racer) and a foal (found out it was a foal when they were complaining no lunging cavessons were small enough!!) and pay livery than pay for mother and daughter to have 1hr weekly riding lessons. Absolute madness but in the face of it £50pw livery was cheaper than £60 for 2hrs worth of riding time.

I've got a free horse and my most expensive was 2.5k and I've had all the prices in between those points. Ironically when Ive had the most money for a purchase I've ended up with 1-2k thoroughbreds instead. My horses have never gone without and get the best that I can provide however I understand the "hidden costs" and have prepared for them, many dont.

So yes i do agree that something needs to be done but i also agree that I'd you need 8-10k for a happy hacker its unachievable.

The market for everything has gone mental since lockdown. I've been house hunting and have a sizeable deposit. In my head this was enough for a deposit, to pay off a loan I have and to have enough left over to put towards horse transport. Hark at me. I've had to throw every bean at getting a house because not only is the market crazy and everything over valued but to get a house you're needing to offer at least 10% cash over market value.

Then theres the price of dogs too, its ballooned since lockdown too.

This whole financial situation was not predicted and no one seems able to believe how long it's been going on for.

I've just managed to get a house so expect the market to crash now!! Ha ha

 

[Birker2020]

If people are stupid enough to pay £15K for an unproven horse or something that's done a few jumping classes then I think they are mad.

There are decent enough horses to buy - you just have to have the right contacts. The word 'potential' adds a couple of thousand to the selling price lol.

I looked at some recently on horses for sale pages -
A 16.3hh gelding aged 4 and they are asking £5,500 hacks alone or in company, bit green but done the basics.
A well bred 16.3hh coloured unbroken 3 year old gelding for £3,500, looks very nice moving.
A lovely 7 year old 17hh gelding, competed in unaff dresssage and sj, £6000
And a just broken 4 year old 17hh Irish/TB cross popping a couple of small cross country fences, ready to crack on with - £4,500

So there is no need to pay mega bucks.
And just remember - everything has 'potential', even a sea side donkey

 

[ihatework]

I suppose it just depends on where your bar is set for quality/potential and what level of fault you are willing to overlook. Plenty of dire comp bred horses around for 5k that you couldn’t pay me to have, complete yaks, yet others use them as a comparison against far superior animals at 2-3 times the price.

Whatever price bracket you are buying in, from 1K to 100k you have to sort the wheat from the chaff. Just there is a lot more sieving to be done the lower the budget

 

[Wishfilly]

It would be true for me, as a person who would be buying their first horse and keeping it at livery. I think that is the person who has been pushing the prices up, rather than people who already have horses or who can keep them at home. People who already had the time and finances before lockdown weren't the ones impulse buying as soon as lockdown hit and sky rocketing the market.

Exactly this. If the price hike has stopped some people who are just slightly more impulsive than me buying a horse or pony they really shouldn't have then some good will have come out of it I suppose.

FWIW, I agree- I probably spend about £400 monthly on my pony, in livery, excluding months where we have vet visits and so on, and excluding big purchases like tack/rugs. So, if someone already has £4k saved up, it wouldn't take that long to increase it to a budget of, say, £6k, which I think would buy a nice low level allrounder in the current market.

I don't think it necessarily has stopped the more impulsive, though- I think it's just led to them buying more unsuitable horses (e.g. novice owners buying unbacked horses or horses that need bringing back into work). And for some people it has led to them being taken advantage of by sellers, IMO. And not everyone who is impulsive lacks money!

 

[conniegirl]

FWIW, I agree- I probably spend about £400 monthly on my pony, in livery, excluding months where we have vet visits and so on, and excluding big purchases like tack/rugs. So, if someone already has £4k saved up, it wouldn't take that long to increase it to a budget of, say, £6k, which I think would buy a nice low level allrounder in the current market.

I don't think it necessarily has stopped the more impulsive, though- I think it's just led to them buying more unsuitable horses (e.g. novice owners buying unbacked horses or horses that need bringing back into work). And for some people it has led to them being taken advantage of by sellers, IMO. And not everyone who is impulsive lacks money!

and yet I'm having a very bad month if my horsey bills (including livery) get anywhere near £400! I average about £250 a month on livery (part livery) and feed.

I have never paid more than £2500 for any of my horses, and infact some of the best of them have been the cheaper ones!

I have more than £4k in savings currently but there is no way on earth I would spend that on a horse/pony.

 

[Wishfilly]

and yet I'm having a very bad month if my horsey bills (including livery) get anywhere near £400! I average about £250 a month on livery (part livery) and feed.

I have never paid more than £2500 for any of my horses, and infact some of the best of them have been the cheaper ones!

I have more than £4k in savings currently but there is no way on earth I would spend that on a horse/pony.

I mean, I'd say I spend similar on livery, services and feed, but then on top of that I have insurance (£80 a month) farrier every 6-7 weeks, so average that to £30 a month (fronts only), plus obviously budgeting for things like physio, dentist etc which aren't monthly but are reoccurring costs- which isn't far off £400 before I add in any little extra purchases etc.

I don't think spending more necessarily buys you a better horse/pony, but I do think that to have a reasonable amount of choice in the current market- especially for people who don't have the skills to take on a "project", a reasonable budget is needed. It's great for you that you have never needed to spend as much as £4000 on a horse, but it's hardly a ridiculous amount of money to spend on one, provided the buyer can afford to do so.

 

[milliepops]

I think I may be in the minority that sees this as a good thing. When horses were cheap/cheaper far too many people could buy them but then not afford to care for them, or they were given away due to issues but dressed up and sold on for lives they were not suitable for.
Now prices are much higher those that cannot afford the 4k for a low level horse most certainly won't be able to afford the ongoing care that that horse will require

i have very mixed feelings on this, there is no way I could justify spending £4k on a horse, we don't own a house yet and my car is a shed on wheels. But I have 7 horses acquired for between £0 and £1k who want for nothing, the upkeep is not an issue but a big upfront spend definitely would be. My circumstances help - footcare and hay are provided by OH and 5 of them live at home.

But I have to agree that half decent horses are worth the money and they ought not to be so easy to pick up for peanuts, because people looking to spend peanuts are *often* also looking to cut corners in the expense of day to day care. Quite aside from the cost to produce the horse up to a half decent standard giving it an intrinsic value anyway.

I want it all ways, basically hence why I am never looking at the open market when succession planning, it's not my kinda place.

 

[Birker2020]

Im 2004 I paid £4,800 for my imported 17.1hh dutch WB, 7 year old, fantastic breeding (Grandsire Nimmerdor), lovely WB floaty paces, four white socks and blaze, fantastic temparment, could jump a clear round of fillers, very well schooled, did my first ever class which was a 2ft 6 SJ derby complete with wall, dyke and irish bank and we came 5th on the 2nd week of ownership, took same horse from nothing to regular placings in Elementary dressage!

Passed 2 vettings in 3 years (2nd vetting was for premium increase).

To get the same horse now I'd be looking at around £15K, it's totally ridiculous.

 

[smolmaus]

I don't think it necessarily has stopped the more impulsive, though- I think it's just led to them buying more unsuitable horses (e.g. novice owners buying unbacked horses or horses that need bringing back into work). And for some people it has led to them being taken advantage of by sellers, IMO. And not everyone who is impulsive lacks money!

Yeah, unfortunately. Credit to this place making sure I've been well informed enough to stay well away from the "bargains" but a lot of people have been caught out I'm sure.

We had a person turn up at the rescue recently looking for a 14-15hh riding pony suitable for a 10yo girl as a first pony. A) sound riding ponies don't end up at a sanctuary when they can be sold and B) a safe riding pony for a child is expensive even in "normal" times. I am convinced a rescue pony was seen as the cheaper option. This person is probably going to see a lame cob on donedeal for £800 and somebody is going to get hurt.

and yet I'm having a very bad month if my horsey bills (including livery) get anywhere near £400! I average about £250 a month on livery (part livery) and feed.

I have never paid more than £2500 for any of my horses, and infact some of the best of them have been the cheaper ones!

I have more than £4k in savings currently but there is no way on earth I would spend that on a horse/pony.

That's the benefit of experience though! £2500 would get you a lame broodmare, an unbroken cob or a straight OTTB local to me right now. If you have 3-4k you might get a just backed connie. If I had 10 years more experience I could make the latter three work maybe as I'm sure you could if you wanted to but for now there is a huge premium on horses that have had some basic work done which is what a lot of people need.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

I suppose it just depends on where your bar is set for quality/potential and what level of fault you are willing to overlook. Plenty of dire comp bred horses around for 5k that you couldn’t pay me to have, complete yaks, yet others use them as a comparison against far superior animals at 2-3 times the price.

Whatever price bracket you are buying in, from 1K to 100k you have to sort the wheat from the chaff. Just there is a lot more sieving to be done the lower the budget

I think this is very true. I dont think I'm very good at evaluating horses. It's a real skill. Plus the back story is often misleading/fictional! I'd be the worst dealer because I struggle to find nice ones in budget and I also struggle to sell at a sensible price because I disclose every last sneeze. Plus I can't negotiate to save my life. And I can't bring myself to PTS on anything other than welfare grounds so I am developing a bit of a collection of retired giant rabbits. I think I will be looking again soon as whatever Toby's future holds, I don't think it's eventing. The thought fills me with absolute dread! Trusted producers/dealers have been my go to but that where I got Toby from and that hasn't been straightforward. Do truly genuinely honest and trustworthy producers/dealers even exist? Or do they all just offload horses with niggles when they can.The person who sold us Dolly is fab. I know she's 100% honest because she refused to sell Max on sales livery even when a vet passed him fit for sale as an event pony. She said she could feel he wasnt quite right behind. But she only sells ponies.

 

[Birker2020]

My circumstances help - footcare and hay are provided by OH and 5 of them live at home.


.

I think this is key. Not the o/h bit but the fact that yours live at home. I'm paying around £250 per month for assisted DIY. The yard is brilliant and has all the facilities but it's no good to me with a horse that can now only hack and hasn't been able to do that for many months.

If circumstances dictate and I am left enough inheritance, then me and my OH plan to sell both properties and go down South and buy a property with around 8-10 acres and a menage and somewhere near a riding centre so I can do the odd competition. Hopefully then I will be able to afford to keep a couple of horses. I find it's not the outright purchase that does it for me, its the ongoing costs, particuarly the vets bills/remedial shoeing.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

ETA do people source horses for people? I know people who used to do that but not seen anyone offering that kind of service recently. I think it's a very valuable skill set and I'd happily do that if I trusted the person.

 

[conniegirl]

ETA do people source horses for people? I know people who used to do that but not seen anyone offering that kind of service recently. I think it's a very valuable skill set and I'd happily do that if I trusted the person.

I've done it in the past but the liability issues mean that i'm not willing to do it any longer. I'll happily help a friend though,.

 

[ester]

See I think an increase of 10k over 17 years isn't unreasonable and probably in some ways more realistic.
I know I'm guilty of going 'well mine only cost X and he was amazing' without realisising quite how long ago that was.

I couldn't justify spending current prices on a horse though.

 

[throwawayaccount]

hmm, at least it'll allow me to save a bit more while i'm tentatively looking and hopefully the market will calm down.

the most 'expensive' horse i've bought is the one I have now, that has all of the issues. I wasn't able to have had her vetted due to the first lockdown so bought her unseen- massive gamble on both accounts and not something i'm willing to do again.

still, I think anything over 3k for something with issues is a lot. not only would you be knowingly buying a horse with issues, you'd be excluding yourself from claiming on insurance as a result (if required).

 

[Wishfilly]

FWIW, I do agree there's a difference between a potentially justified increase in the cost of quality, well produced horses/youngsters, and people trying to offload horses with know problems for a quick buck.