horse market seems a bit overpriced!??

[milliepops]

Yes I agree, having your own place would save me £3,000 a year on livery and having enough acreage to grow hay would save me nearly £600 a year in hay alone for one horse! Getting a contractor in to do it for you or hire the equipment which is what my partner does when the fields on the livery yard where he works need rolling or harrowing. You would save yourself a fortune that way.

don't underestimate the cost of making the hay etc tho! we just spent £500 on routine fencing maintenance, plus another £100 to renew electric fencing, the hayfields need fert etc, we buy some more grass, running tractors, balers etc, wrap..... you save on the price of full livery, but I reckon you wouldn't be too far off cheap DIY prices, it's only economies of scale that make it "cheap" when you have lots of horses.

 

[Snowfilly]

Latest pony costs about £15 a month in feed, £15 per month farrier (£30 every two months), approx £10 per month spread across the year for wormer (she won’t need a whole one), vaccs and teeth. We haven’t needed to put out more hay as she is only small and there is grass too. No livery costs as we were paying for the field already.

So £50 extra per month for now, plus insurance/savings.

In terms of outfitting her, we already had a headcollar that would fit and a feed bowl. When she is backed, I have a spare Thorn pad and a variety of girths and pads to go with it. Will need to buy a bridle, and she will take her turn with arena hire/shows with the others - we will not go more often though, so no extra costs there.

Not every horse costs a fortune to keep; not every owner who doesn’t have £10k spare won’t be able to look after a horse well.

I think the inflated prices will remain until foreign holidays become a thing again and people are back at work in offices.

Your pricing and keep sounds like mine with the spotty beast. He cost £900 in an auction, including keep for a week and delivery in November 2019, and since then he’s probably cost just that again - living on our land, a scant bit of hay now and then, a farrier for trims and his teeth and jabs. Worked three or four times a week in hand and on long reins.

All his tack so far has either been off a previous horse (bit and saddle) or second hand on eBay (I dropped £20 on a flash saddlecloth, £5 for an old English leather and brass head collar, £15 for an old hunter bridle) He’s ready to back now and once he’s built up some muscle and looks close to grown up, I’ll slowly buy him some proper tack.

No insurance. No matchy matchy stuff. No rugs, at least until he’s clipped.

Arena hire and lesson costs will be the big thing this year.

There’s no way I could have spent 4K on a horse but he wants for nothing and will be (hopefully) a good outcome come September when he’s ridden away nicely.

 

[windand rain]

My friend and I worked it out at £1000 per year not including livery, vet fees, competition fees, emergencies or transport as an absolute minimum to keep a horse or pony properly. A tiny pony perhaps a bit less after the initial cost of tiny proof fencing

 

[Wishfilly]

Yes I agree, having your own place would save me £3,000 a year on livery and having enough acreage to grow hay would save me nearly £600 a year in hay alone for one horse! Getting a contractor in to do it for you or hire the equipment which is what my partner does when the fields on the livery yard where he works need rolling or harrowing. You would save yourself a fortune that way.

Even if I was buying in hay, if I could have my horse out rather than in at night, I reckon I'd save at least £60 a month on bedding/hay. And obviously I wouldn't then be spending double that on bedding/hay if I bought another.

FWIW, I like being on livery and I'm happy to pay as I like having access to the facilities etc too. And I appreciate the costs involved for the yard owner. I'm not saying it's overpriced at all. But it's not like with like to compare horses on livery with horses kept on your own/rented land.

 

[Birker2020]

Even if I was buying in hay, if I could have my horse out rather than in at night, I reckon I'd save at least £60 a month on bedding/hay. .

That's true. I'm waiting until everyone on my strip turns around at night then my horse is going out. Hopefully it will be when she's straight off box rest to make life easier on her.

It makes a huge difference when they are out at night.

 

[ester]

don't underestimate the cost of making the hay etc tho! we just spent £500 on routine fencing maintenance, plus another £100 to renew electric fencing, the hayfields need fert etc, we buy some more grass, running tractors, balers etc, wrap..... you save on the price of full livery, but I reckon you wouldn't be too far off cheap DIY prices, it's only economies of scale that make it "cheap" when you have lots of horses.

I reckon it comes about evens to DIY at home, once we've had to include muck heap management/ removal, paying for spraying, paying for making the hay, fencing etc. - Which as a small plot is done when they contractor wants to more than when you would like it to.

 

[Birker2020]

I reckon it comes about evens to DIY at home, once we've had to include muck heap management/ removal, paying for spraying, paying for making the hay, fencing etc. - Which as a small plot is done when they contractor wants to more than when you would like it to.

Yes I will have all this too look forward to.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Yes I agree, having your own place would save me £3,000 a year on livery and having enough acreage to grow hay would save me nearly £600 a year in hay alone for one horse! Getting a contractor in to do it for you or hire the equipment which is what my partner does when the fields on the livery yard where he works need rolling or harrowing. You would save yourself a fortune that way.

One off purchases for towing vehicle, harrow and roller are all well and good.
However, owning your own yard will mean paying out for;
Water bills
Muck heap removal
Electric bill if you have power
Weed killing, fertilising etc if the acreage requires it
Fencing replacement or repairs
Tree and hedge works. (Eg, a big tree comes down, could cost north of 500 to get dealt with)
Yard maintenance
Liability insurance of some form or another.

And the services of a free lancer if you want to go away for a few days.....

I used to take hay off mine, nobody wants to do small acreage these days, it's rare round here to find anyone making small bale hay at all.

 

[Wishfilly]

I reckon it comes about evens to DIY at home, once we've had to include muck heap management/ removal, paying for spraying, paying for making the hay, fencing etc. - Which as a small plot is done when they contractor wants to more than when you would like it to.

My point is more that those costs don't double if you decided to get a second- whereas if you are on DIY etc they pretty much do. So when people who have 3-4 horses on their own land say that their horse/pony costs them X amount, and doesn't factor in a % of the above costs, they're not really giving the full picture.

 

[Wishfilly]

One off purchases for towing vehicle, harrow and roller are all well and good.
However, owning your own yard will mean paying out for;
Water bills
Muck heap removal
Electric bill if you have power
Weed killing, fertilising etc if the acreage requires it
Fencing replacement or repairs
Tree and hedge works. (Eg, a big tree comes down, could cost north of 500 to get dealt with)
Yard maintenance
Liability insurance of some form or another.

And the services of a free lancer if you want to go away for a few days.....

I used to take hay off mine, nobody wants to do small acreage these days, it's rare round here to find anyone making small bale hay at all.

So then, arguably, it's pretty fair to say that if someone can't save up £3-4k to purchase their first horse, they would then probably struggle to afford all of the above, too? Especially unexpected maintenance bills?

 

[milliepops]

I reckon it comes about evens to DIY at home, once we've had to include muck heap management/ removal, paying for spraying, paying for making the hay, fencing etc. - Which as a small plot is done when they contractor wants to more than when you would like it to.

indeed. the only way it's really possible for me to have my ridiculous herd is because OH loves playing with his tractor toys and so has all the stuff sitting around. What I spend on horses, he spends on huge kit! it's great knowing that when our stuff needs doing, it gets done first though, he will roll my fields before anyone elses.

 

[conniegirl]

So then, arguably, it's pretty fair to say that if someone can't save up £3-4k to purchase their first horse, they would then probably struggle to afford all of the above, too? Especially unexpected maintenance bills?

Not really, we had land at home for 20 years and had at some points 5 horses/ponies on it.
It certainly cost us less per month to have 5 at home (despite maintenance costs) than it would to keep 1 on livery.

 

[ester]

Our neighbour who had a great time with his vintage tractor and our small roller last year (which was bought 6 months before the truck blew up and the horse broke so wasn't replaced so it's had no one to tow it in the 6 years since) is unfortunately doing some tinkering with said tractor... who knows how long that will take!

 

[ester]

My point is more that those costs don't double if you decided to get a second- whereas if you are on DIY etc they pretty much do. So when people who have 3-4 horses on their own land say that their horse/pony costs them X amount, and doesn't factor in a % of the above costs, they're not really giving the full picture.

Yup I was dividing it by 2 fwiw.

 

[throwawayaccount]

thanks everyone for the replies so far, I can understand a horse with no problems being priced decently, its more something going for a few grand with either health or behavioural issues that seems steep to me
I think I will keep saving/ looking quietly
like others have said I'm sure it'll eventually calm down as theres always fluctations with everything.

 

[Fred66]

Prices have been too low, if you start to cost bringing on a horse from home bred keeping a horse (say £600 a year before you do anything with it), plus say minimally £1000 in stud & vet fees.
Then including the almost year the mare is in foal and then bringing on the youngster to 4 then you are talking £4000 before you put time in. Assuming you spend an average 1/2hour per day for the first 2 years just handling, checking on it etc then say 60hrs extra in year 3 with initial breaking in before turning away and a further 120hrs in year 4 then you are up to 910hrs then at minimum wage this is circa £8000.
So to produce a basic 4 year old no competition history but that hacks away and has some level of schooling then the cost should be £10-12k and that’s without any major complications or profit.

It’s quite scary when you do the maths!!

 

[McFluff]

Im 2004 I paid £4,800 for my imported 17.1hh dutch WB, 7 year old, fantastic breeding (Grandsire Nimmerdor), lovely WB floaty paces, four white socks and blaze, fantastic temparment, could jump a clear round of fillers, very well schooled, did my first ever class which was a 2ft 6 SJ derby complete with wall, dyke and irish bank and we came 5th on the 2nd week of ownership, took same horse from nothing to regular placings in Elementary dressage!

Passed 2 vettings in 3 years (2nd vetting was for premium increase).

To get the same horse now I'd be looking at around £15K, it's totally ridiculous.

Just as a point of interest - according to the bank of England, £4800 in 2004 is £7536 now. And that is just inflation adjustment. My friend was selling quality PC ponies for £3-4K in the 90's, surely just on inflation they should be worth more now (if you then add in that the other costs have increased too, then arguably the prices should be higher).

Personally I think that prices needed to adjust a bit. I find it mad that there were some horses for sale cheaper than puppies or kittens. A broodmare can only have one foal a year, whereas a queen or bitch has several kittens/puppies a year. So at the most basic level, the horse should cost more to buy.

I also find it worrying for the standards of horse care and riding that it is cheaper to keep a horse at DIY than go for lessons at a quality riding school. As a result, we are losing riding schools (if you want riding lessons where I live, you now need to travel over 50 miles each way for somewhere half decent). This cannot be good for giving people the basic skills and ability to keep and ride horses well.

 

[Goldenstar]

Yes I agree, having your own place would save me £3,000 a year on livery and having enough acreage to grow hay would save me nearly £600 a year in hay alone for one horse! Getting a contractor in to do it for you or hire the equipment which is what my partner does when the fields on the livery yard where he works need rolling or harrowing. You would save yourself a fortune that way.

It’s not as simple as that, 3 k would not cover the basic maintenance here .
Making your own hay only works when the weather is kind to you otherwise you have paid all the costs of making it and end having to pretty well give it away for hill cattle Having a sort out of one paddock cost around £800 last summer .
And I repaired some fencing that was getting tired and replaced some gates that £2600.
I have just spend £500 on electric fencing supplies .
Then if you buy on a mortgage you need to consider the interest costs .
Its undeniably better to have your horses at home but I don’t think it’s necessarily cheaper .

 

[Lipglosspukka]

I think the prices are gross.

It is outpricing normal people. Horse ownership will become an elitist hobby if the prices stay where they are. Normal people cannot afford to pay a five figure sum for a basic safe allrounder.

I have sold one during covid and I sold him for a normal price. He didn't get an absurd price tag attached because there is absolutely no need for it.

 

[Wishfilly]

I think the prices are gross.

It is outpricing normal people. Horse ownership will become an elitist hobby if the prices stay where they are. Normal people cannot afford to pay a five figure sum for a basic safe allrounder.

I have sold one during covid and I sold him for a normal price. He didn't get an absurd price tag attached because there is absolutely no need for it.

Lots of people couldn't afford horses before, though. It's not a human right to be able to own a horse. What counts as a "normal person" who should be able to afford a horse?

And I don't think you need to pay five figures for a safe all-rounder at the moment. £10k will still buy you something with decent competitive potential.

 

[ihatework]

I think the prices are gross.

It is outpricing normal people. Horse ownership will become an elitist hobby if the prices stay where they are. Normal people cannot afford to pay a five figure sum for a basic safe allrounder.

I have sold one during covid and I sold him for a normal price. He didn't get an absurd price tag attached because there is absolutely no need for it.

I know, it’s awful. I’d like a 5 bed house in the countryside with 10 acres and stabling. On the driveway I’d like a top of the range Range Rover.

This bloody housing market is outpricing normal people. It’s so elitist and unfair ?

 

[smolmaus]

I know, it’s awful. I’d like a 5 bed house in the countryside with 10 acres and stabling. On the driveway I’d like a top of the range Range Rover.

This bloody housing market is outpricing normal people. It’s so elitist and unfair ?

Well... it is! The housing market is actually a sh*tshow (in some places more than others) so maybe not the best comparison ?

But yeah, the definition of "normal" person has to be stretched anyway. Even £30 a week for lessons at a riding school is a stretch compared to other sports. My partner has stated that the second I become a horse owner I have to own the Middle Class label for life.

 

[milliepops]

Well... it is! The housing market is actually a sh*tshow (in some places more than others) so maybe not the best comparison ?

that's fair but IHW wasn't wanting simple accommodation that a normal person could rightfully expect to be able to get, she was hankering after a luxury house with a luxury car, i.e. not necessities, which for me is kind of the point. A horse isn't a necessity.

 

[Rowreach]

I think it’s high time that horse prices reflected the cost and effort they goes into producing them, and I’ve wondered for decades why anyone bothers tbh. Unless you’ve got a Billy type set up, it’s simply not realistic.

 

[Lipglosspukka]

I know, it’s awful. I’d like a 5 bed house in the countryside with 10 acres and stabling. On the driveway I’d like a top of the range Range Rover.

This bloody housing market is outpricing normal people. It’s so elitist and unfair ?

I'm not sure that the patronising sarcasm is necessary.

Be kind.

 

[Birker2020]

One off purchases for towing vehicle, harrow and roller are all well and good.
However, owning your own yard will mean paying out for;
Water bills
Muck heap removal
Electric bill if you have power
Weed killing, fertilising etc if the acreage requires it
Fencing replacement or repairs
Tree and hedge works. (Eg, a big tree comes down, could cost north of 500 to get dealt with)
Yard maintenance
Liability insurance of some form or another.

And the services of a free lancer if you want to go away for a few days.....

I used to take hay off mine, nobody wants to do small acreage these days, it's rare round here to find anyone making small bale hay at all.

I know, I'm lucky my o/h who used to work as a groundsman and now a maintenance man can do all that.

 

[ester]

But yeah, the definition of "normal" person has to be stretched anyway. Even £30 a week for lessons at a riding school is a stretch compared to other sports. My partner has stated that the second I become a horse owner I have to own the Middle Class label for life.

I can do a months gym membership for that with as many classes as I want .

I do tend to compare things to livery costs though, I've had a lot of PT rehab recently and did tell a friend well I could have a horse on full livery instead ?

 

[smolmaus]

that's fair but IHW wasn't wanting simple accommodation that a normal person could rightfully expect to be able to get, she was hankering after a luxury house with a luxury car, i.e. not necessities, which for me is kind of the point. A horse isn't a necessity.

Awk I know, just the housing market is maybe not the best thing to choose to make the point. Housing and cars to an extent are a necessity and should be available to everyone at the lower end of the market and horses just aren't a necessity.

I don't know that there is a suitable analogy. There are other sports and hobbies that are similarly elitist, like motor racing or maybe skiing? Sailing? Maybe there is a yachting forum out there where people are upset that the sport isn't accessible to the working class.

 

[windand rain]

It does cost twice as much annually to have 2 if you have your own land as stated above the cost of a minimum of £1000 per horse per year is purely maintenance money livery etc are on top.
I also agree being responsible for the land is expensive my landlord lets me look after our fields for years it costs about £1500 per year just to kep it looking nice and for it to be protected from overgrazing admittedly it is only 5 acres so not having equipment means hiring in or doing everything by hand

 

[TheMule]

I think the prices are gross.

It is outpricing normal people. Horse ownership will become an elitist hobby if the prices stay where they are. Normal people cannot afford to pay a five figure sum for a basic safe allrounder.

I have sold one during covid and I sold him for a normal price. He didn't get an absurd price tag attached because there is absolutely no need for it.

Well, then 'normal' people should breed their own horses and make their own basic safe allrounders.