horse market seems a bit overpriced!??

Annagain

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I think prices were rising before COVID and that's just exacerbated / accelerated the whole thing. I started looking for my new horse in June 2019 and found him in August 2020. I started thinking 5k would be plenty but within a month or two upped it to £7k as I wasn't really seeing anything that I liked at 5k. I took a break over Christmas 2019 and then with COVID, didn't see another until July. Charlie was the first one I saw after lockdown - by that time I had to pay another £1k again. I'm now seeing similar horses for £10-12k.

I was quite fussy in what I wanted but could have paid less if I'd been prepared to compromise. If I'd wanted a TB, I could have bought a very nice one for £3.5k but despite trying, I just couldn't get used to his shape after years of hunter types. I saw a nice horse locally that was only £2k but he'd been out of work a long time and was obese - far more so in real life than the (presumably old) photos suggested. I didn't mind bringing him back into work but my yard's set up isn't good for getting horses to lose weight - our grass is too good and the YO won't allow fatty paddocks as she hates the way they look. It would probably have suited him eventually when he was doing enough work but it didn't suit him then.

From what I'm seeing now, that end of the market is the most affected. I currently have a friend looking and while she could afford to buy a Charlie even at today's prices she doesn't want to spend that much and she is prepared to make some compromises as she only wants a happy hacker but even so, we're seeing very little in that <£7k price range. The sort of cheap compromise I found quite easily (but didn't take) 18 months ago, are as expensive as the decent ones were when I was looking,

It's very unfair to say those with a £4k budget can't afford ongoing care. Plenty of people could pay more but don't want to, don't think they need what one that would cost more would offer or are deliberately keeping the budget low to ensure they have a decent fund to look after a horse. Look at Red-1 and Rigsby. He was far less than £4k and has had the best of everything from the moment he arrived home in every aspect - veterinary attention, education, diet and, most importantly, love and care. I agree that, had he fallen into the wrong hands, it could have been very different for him and that may be more likely to happen at the lower end of the market but it doesn't mean it definitely will.
 
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smolmaus

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Just out of interest, see link. If 6k wasn't over half my worldy savings right now because we bought a house last year I would be interested. Some sort of "record" (15 points with SJI) but windsucks. Is that reasonable?
 

throwawayaccount

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I agree Annagain, my mare has cost about 3 grand out of my own pocket just for vetbills while insurance has paid the rest, along with full livery on some days and general day to day care.. i've probably been paying a small fortune to say the least, and not once has she gone without.

smolmaus - that's a nice looking horse, windsucking would be a concern so 6k is a bit steep. my old mare windsucked, it transpired she had granulosa cell tumours (which were removed along with an ovary) and she carried on windsucking out of 'habit' (surgeon's words) until she died, she lasted me a good 12 years though.

edit - if i still competed, i would have loved this mare: https://www.horsemart.co.uk/masses-of-potential-in-any-discipline/Horses/507420
 

pixie27

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I'll potentially be looking to buy in the next six months (ish) and the prices are causing a lot of mixed feelings!

On one hand, I'm glad to see horses selling for a decent price. Part of me hopes that more people will start producing horses more slowly, knowing they don't need a quick turnaround to make money - they can spend longer but sell for more. But on the other, I'm terrified to spend so much money and then for something to go wrong. I bought a 4 y/o a few years ago for £5k and turns out he had severe navicular, so was retired within a few months of me owning him. (Stupidly on my part I didn't get LOU as figured we'd just spend a year hacking, then I'd bump up cover when his workload increased.)

I think this is very true. I dont think I'm very good at evaluating horses. It's a real skill. Plus the back story is often misleading/fictional! I'd be the worst dealer because I struggle to find nice ones in budget and I also struggle to sell at a sensible price because I disclose every last sneeze.
Think this is it exactly! I know people who can find a real diamond for a low(ish) price, but I am not one of them!

I couldn't be more excited to own again, but oh boy, horse shopping gives me a cold sweat just thinking about it.
 

Annagain

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Just out of interest, see link. If 6k wasn't over half my worldy savings right now because we bought a house last year I would be interested. Some sort of "record" (15 points with SJI) but windsucks. Is that reasonable?

That's exactly the point I was making above. 18 months ago I was seeing this sort of horse for £3-4k. I suppose whether he's reasonable depends on his overall performance (would he be worth £12k without?) how bad the windsucking is (are we talking a gulp or two when he sees his tea coming, only when stabled, or constantly?) and what the reason for it is (in my experience, windsucking usually means ulcers which in turn mean an underlying issue)
 

Wishfilly

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Just out of interest, see link. If 6k wasn't over half my worldy savings right now because we bought a house last year I would be interested. Some sort of "record" (15 points with SJI) but windsucks. Is that reasonable?

I don't think there's enough information on that advert to say whether £6k is reasonable or not. If he doesn't hack, I would say not, and the fact it's not mentioned at all on the ad would bother me.

Windsucking is unpopular with a lot of people as it can sometimes cause colic, and also can cause a lot of muscle under the neck, which can be an issue for dressage. Some YOs won't have a windsucker on their yard, which makes life difficult, as well. I'd expect him to be £2-3k cheaper than a comparable horse who didn't windsuck at least. And I'd ideally want to see the vet history to know he didn't have a history of collic.
 

chaps89

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We don't have a good track record in our family- between me and my mum we've had 5 horses varying in price from £700-4500, and none have stayed sound (I swear it's not something we do!)
It's hard enough to lose say £2k, I can't imagine losing £5k which would be the equivalent price today of the £2k I'd say, LOU insurance cover or not.
I also find the thought of spending 5k on a wobbly but safe 4 year old quite alarming.
Fair enough if it had recorded breeding and a good upbringing and had been well started then absolutely, those things cost money but miscellaneous ponies safe but with a bit of schooling needed, it feels a stretch personally.

I can afford the monthly payments and upkeep but certainly don't have many thousands lying around for buying another one whilst current one is still about that's for sure. Fair enough it would be easy enough to save once she's gone but personally an overlap between old and new horse is always preferable (presuming old horse doesn't pop it's clogs sooner than expected) but you know, that's the way the cookie crumbles and we can't always have what we want!

There definitley feels a shortage of genuine projects at projects prices nowadays I feel.
Interestingly a dealer friend put up a FB memory the other day - nice 16hh coloured all rounder type. Sold a few years ago for £3500. She commented to say she couldn't get that same horse on her yard now for that price, much less sell it for that now.
 

smolmaus

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I don't think there's enough information on that advert to say whether £6k is reasonable or not. If he doesn't hack, I would say not, and the fact it's not mentioned at all on the ad would bother me.

Windsucking is unpopular with a lot of people as it can sometimes cause colic, and also can cause a lot of muscle under the neck, which can be an issue for dressage. Some YOs won't have a windsucker on their yard, which makes life difficult, as well. I'd expect him to be £2-3k cheaper than a comparable horse who didn't windsuck at least. And I'd ideally want to see the vet history to know he didn't have a history of collic.
Yeah I agree it's not a great advert. Nearly raises more questions than it answers. The bolded part is kinda what I was interested in as a hypothetical.

We lost one of the rescues last summer after one colic too many and he was a terrible windsucker. He came back from I think 3 homes as he was so lovely people always wanted to take a chance on him but couldn't handle it in the end. I would be very wary myself. You could probably have gotten him fit and chucked him round a course a few times on his good days for some points as well but he was a heartbreaker.
That's exactly the point I was making above. 18 months ago I was seeing this sort of horse for £3-4k. I suppose whether he's reasonable depends on his overall performance (would he be worth £12k without?) how bad the windsucking is (are we talking a gulp or two when he sees his tea coming, only when stabled, or constantly?) and what the reason for it is (in my experience, windsucking usually means ulcers which in turn mean an underlying issue)
Yeah. I suppose "true value" is impossible to really gauge. How much of the price is the actual horse, how much is CV inflation, how much is the declared windsucking and how much is whatever is left undeclared?
 

scats

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The most expensive I’ve ever bought is currently in my stable (Millie- £2.5k) and the cheapest was free.
Personally I think it might be a good thing that there’s not thousands of horses knocking around out there at a few hundred pounds, as I don’t always think the right people are attracted to buying them (there are exceptions, of course).
 

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I suppose it just depends on where your bar is set for quality/potential and what level of fault you are willing to overlook. Plenty of dire comp bred horses around for 5k that you couldn’t pay me to have, complete yaks, yet others use them as a comparison against far superior animals at 2-3 times the price.

Whatever price bracket you are buying in, from 1K to 100k you have to sort the wheat from the chaff. Just there is a lot more sieving to be done the lower the budget

This is true and you can find real bargains but I can’t be bothered I just want to buy a horse and am lucky that cost does not need to put me off a horse.
When people say like it’s ridiculous to pay 20k on a youngster I know they have never sat on many young top class horses .
 
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Caol Ila

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I've trawled the adverts a bit and found some which look okay, but I'm still hoping the prices come down in the next year. Whenever we have to PTS Gypsum, I'll be in the market for green-but-backed project to play with while my PRE grows up. I really want a cob.

My suspicion is that prices will drop, like they will for dogs.
 

marmalade76

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Now prices are much higher those that cannot afford the 4k for a low level horse most certainly won't be able to afford the ongoing care that that horse will require

I absolutely hate this old chestnut - whilst there's always the odd exceptions, with the majority of experienced horse owners, it's absolute rubbish. I'm sure I'm not the only one who was regularly told as a kid "it's not the buying them that costs, it's the keeping".
 

shortstuff99

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I think it all depends, breeding a horse is going to cost upwards of 4k. Why would a breeder then sell for any less? My most expensive horse I've ever bought was my newest PRE filly who I got direct from the breeder as a yearling. She has top class breeding, is a fully registered PRE and my aim is FEI GP dressage with her. Why should she have been cheap?
 

Annagain

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This is true and you can find real bargains but I can’t be bothered I just want to buy a horse and am lucky that cost does not need to put me off a horse.
When people say like it’s ridiculous to pay 20k on a youngster I know they have never sat on many young top class horses .

It's all relative though isn't it? I don't think it's ridiculous for a youngster to cost £20k but I do think it's ridiculous for most riders to spend £20k on a youngster because they will never need the quality and potential that a £20k youngster offers. I paid what I did for Charlie as I knew I was buying temperament, good conformation and the breed I wanted (which does command a bit of a premium) but even at £8k I doubt he'll ever do as much with me as he could with more confident, capable and motivated rider. If I get to 90 I'll be delighted and I don't care about winning either, just getting round would be fab. I have the savings to spend £20k but it would be a total waste of at least £10k and the horse's potential for me to do that.

In the same vein, OH and could afford to buy a 5 bed detached house with a huge garden but it's just the two of us and we don't like gardening. Our three bed semi with a big enough drive for all his cars is more than we strictly NEED but we could afford a bit more for what we wanted. We just weren't prepared to stretch that even further for stuff we were never going to use.
 
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Wishfilly

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I think there’s a genuine reduction in supply driving this .

That's interesting, the thought had crossed my mind too, actually. There's certainly a lot of supply in some breeds/types (e.g. young connies) but in others it does feel like there just aren't that many horses available to buy.

Short term, I think it's harder to import horses from the EU, which may be having an impact?
 

Goldenstar

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It's all relative though isn't it? I don't think it's ridiculous for a youngster to cost £20k but I do think it's ridiculous for most riders to spend £20k on a youngster because they will never need the quality and potential that a £20k youngster offers. I paid what I did for Charlie as I knew I was buying temperament but even at £8k I doubt he'll ever do as much with me as he could with more confident, capable and motivated rider. If I get to 90 I'll be delighted and I don't care about winning either, just getting round would be fab. I have the savings to spend £20k but it would be a total waste of at least £10k and the horse's potential for me to do that.

I won’t ever compete but if a came across a nice horse that I loved and suited me I would buy to love riding and I would not consider it a waste of 20k
 

windand rain

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I am not sure they will drop much breeders are beginning to realise that their huge losses can be a break even point every horse has cost at least £4000 to get to unbroken 4 year old stage. I seriously think well bred, well brought up youngsters will stay at that and more. In fact I think sporty type youngsters still top that as weanlings. I am old and horses certainly have never kept up with inflation my first wage was a well paid job at £1000per year my first horse cheap at £150. 55 years on that job pays £50,000 per year and that would make him worth £8,250 now as a newly broken unraced 4 year old TB. I would imagine you still wouldn't pay that for one and have seen similar for less than half. Livery is something else that hasnt increased much I paid £25 per week DIY 20 years ago I dont think that is much more now but dont know as rent our field
 

Wishfilly

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I am not sure they will drop much breeders are beginning to realise that their huge losses can be a break even point every horse has cost at least £4000 to get to unbroken 4 year old stage. I seriously think well bred, well brought up youngsters will stay at that and more. In fact I think sporty type youngsters still top that as weanlings. I am old and horses certainly havve never kept up with inflation my first wage was a well paid job at £1000per year my first horse cheap at £150 55 years on that job pays £50,000 per year and that would make him worth £8,250 now as a newly broken unraced 4 year old TB. I would imagine you still wouldn't pay that for one and have sen similar for less than half. Livery is something else that hasnt increased much I paid £25 per week DIY 20 years ago I dont think that is much more now but dont know as rent our field

I don't know what was included in the £25 a week, but I pay £100 a month for my stable (bedding, hay etc is extra), so from that point of view, livery hasn't increased at all! For context, it is a slightly smaller/awkwardly shaped stable, and others on the yard cost more, but still!
 

Annagain

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I won’t ever compete but if a came across a nice horse that I loved and suited me I would buy to love riding and I would not consider it a waste of 20k

If that brings you pleasure that's great and there are obviously others like you are there are horses in that price range and they must be selling. Maybe I'm judging by my own standards but I suspect most riders wouldn't feel that way though, even if they could afford it. I feel enough pressure having bought a 6 yr old, £8k horse (having not bought for 16 years during which time prices really have rocketed and not had anything younger than 9 before) I'd feel a hundred times more pressure to get it right with a £20k horse, to the point that I probably wouldn't enjoy riding.
 

maya2008

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Latest pony costs about £15 a month in feed, £15 per month farrier (£30 every two months), approx £10 per month spread across the year for wormer (she won’t need a whole one), vaccs and teeth. We haven’t needed to put out more hay as she is only small and there is grass too. No livery costs as we were paying for the field already.

So £50 extra per month for now, plus insurance/savings.

In terms of outfitting her, we already had a headcollar that would fit and a feed bowl. When she is backed, I have a spare Thorn pad and a variety of girths and pads to go with it. Will need to buy a bridle, and she will take her turn with arena hire/shows with the others - we will not go more often though, so no extra costs there.

Not every horse costs a fortune to keep; not every owner who doesn’t have £10k spare won’t be able to look after a horse well.

I think the inflated prices will remain until foreign holidays become a thing again and people are back at work in offices.
 

Birker2020

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My suspicion is that prices will drop, like they will for dogs.
I think they will have to or people will outprice themselves out of the market.
But it's like anything, I am sure with the right amount of marketing I could sell the BIC biro on my desk for a tenner, there is always someone daft enough to spend the cash.
 

Ample Prosecco

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I think prices will stay high for well produced young horses which will then have a knock on effect on the re-sale price of older horses.

There is a finite supply of horses with no easy way of increasing the number of horses available anytime soon. Importing from the continent is harder. Demand has gone up as I think many people hovering on the edge of the decision to buy, made that commitment for various reasons: a recognition that lifes too short not to chase dreams, more money around due to no holidays, trips or meals out, working from home allowing more flexibility, lifestyle changes in favour of a more outdoor life etc. Unlike puppies which can be bought in a whim, I really don't think that many people buy horses frivolously so I dont think there will suddenly be a glut of unwanted horses around to reduce costs. Demand will continue to outstrip supply for a long time I think. So prices will stay high or go higher.
 

Wishfilly

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Latest pony costs about £15 a month in feed, £15 per month farrier (£30 every two months), approx £10 per month spread across the year for wormer (she won’t need a whole one), vaccs and teeth. We haven’t needed to put out more hay as she is only small and there is grass too. No livery costs as we were paying for the field already.

So £50 extra per month for now, plus insurance/savings.

In terms of outfitting her, we already had a headcollar that would fit and a feed bowl. When she is backed, I have a spare Thorn pad and a variety of girths and pads to go with it. Will need to buy a bridle, and she will take her turn with arena hire/shows with the others - we will not go more often though, so no extra costs there.

Not every horse costs a fortune to keep; not every owner who doesn’t have £10k spare won’t be able to look after a horse well.

I think the inflated prices will remain until foreign holidays become a thing again and people are back at work in offices.

The having the field already part is significant, though- it makes a huge difference, compared to paying for livery, and in most cases needing to pay for hay/bedding as true grass livery is hard to find these days. And you're obviously experienced, and have a lot of equipment already.

I don't think anyone is saying that someone needs loads of spare cash to look after a horse well, but for a novice one horseowner putting a horse on livery, if they are struggling to afford a £3-4k purchase price, they are likely to struggle in some ways to afford the horse too. Not necessarily that the horse will miss out on essentials like feed, but more they may not see the dentist/saddle fitter as necessary, or the owner may run into problems if the vet is needed.

It is obviously possible to keep a horse on a shoestring (although ironically on another thread when I suggested it would be possible to keep a loan horse for <£300 a month, everyone disagreed with me) but I think it is reasonable to say if someone without a horse would struggle to add to their existing budget for a horse over a period of, say, 6 months, they might struggle to afford said horse.
 

Ample Prosecco

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It is obviously possible to keep a horse on a shoestring (although ironically on another thread when I suggested it would be possible to keep a loan horse for <£300 a month, everyone disagreed with me) but I think it is reasonable to say if someone without a horse would struggle to add to their existing budget for a horse over a period of, say, 6 months, they might struggle to afford said horse.

Haha it's a contrary forum!! Generally speaking a suggested budget to buy a horse is far too low whereas a suggested price for selling one is far too high. :p
 

Birker2020

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The having the field already part is significant, though- it makes a huge difference, compared to paying for livery, and in most cases needing to pay for hay/bedding as true grass livery is hard to find these days. And you're obviously experienced, and have a lot of equipment already.

I don't think anyone is saying that someone needs loads of spare cash to look after a horse well, but for a novice one horseowner putting a horse on livery, if they are struggling to afford a £3-4k purchase price, they are likely to struggle in some ways to afford the horse too. Not necessarily that the horse will miss out on essentials like feed, but more they may not see the dentist/saddle fitter as necessary, or the owner may run into problems if the vet is needed.

It is obviously possible to keep a horse on a shoestring (although ironically on another thread when I suggested it would be possible to keep a loan horse for <£300 a month, everyone disagreed with me) but I think it is reasonable to say if someone without a horse would struggle to add to their existing budget for a horse over a period of, say, 6 months, they might struggle to afford said horse.
Yes I agree, having your own place would save me £3,000 a year on livery and having enough acreage to grow hay would save me nearly £600 a year in hay alone for one horse! Getting a contractor in to do it for you or hire the equipment which is what my partner does when the fields on the livery yard where he works need rolling or harrowing. You would save yourself a fortune that way.
 
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