Horse preferences, how much does the horse's opinion count?

[Oneday]

My horses didn't always want to do what I wanted them to. However, my attitude was that I worked 8 hours a day in jobs that I didn't particularly enjoy.

I would have walked away from jobs on many occasions if I hadn't had to consider how I would pay for them to live in the style to which they had become accustomed.

Therefore, if they didn't think it was right that for one hour of their day they had to do something they would rather not do it was tough. It wasn't anything very taxing I wanted them to do, a bit of schooling and hacking, so in return for 23 hours of pretty much doing what they wanted, I thought that was a fair exchange. The majority of us have to do things we would rather not do, that is simply part of life, and even living in a wild herd situation, they still wouldn't be able to do exactly as they wanted as they would governed by the herd dynamics.

My TB mare was the same with the trailer, if she heard me hooking it up wouldn't eat her breakfast. Looking back she may have found it slightly stressful, but she always got comments about what a happy test she did. If she had been really stressed or distressed by travelling, I don't think she wouldn't have done her tests with her ears pricked and a smile on her face.

She lived to her late 20's and was ridden until she was in her mid 20's so I don't think it did her any harm.

 

[Cortez]

This is the dilema we as horse riders and owners have to wrestle with. There is no doubt that pretty much everything we do with horses is not what horses would want to do if given the choice.

 

[spotty_pony]

Oh yes - my boy made it known loud and clear that he was born to hunt. Jumping is fine but Dressage he has never enjoyed. He does have arthritis though and never found it particularly easy because of his conformation but I never made him do it once I found out it wouldn’t do him any good.

My other boy who I lost last year used to call to his tack he loves his work that much. ?

I think it’s best to listen to their interests and work with them although there are some things they do not like (eg my mare hated the farrier) that are unavoidable.

 

[Boulty]

I think it's a case of comprising where you can / where the horse has expressed obvious displeasure if it's possible but yes sometimes we do ask our horses to do things they'd rather not so that they can do the job we would like them to do.

The Welsh idiot had many OPINIONS on what he should / shouldn't be doing. I did my best to pander to him management wise but sometimes getting things completely as he wanted would have killed him. I moved yards several times to try & keep him happy (one of his chief complaints was being stabled overnight but he was too much of a lami risk in summer & weight loss risk in winter to totally live out so we compromised). Same pony hated going anywhere on his own. I worked around this (& him being extremely unreliable even in company) until he needed to do hours & hours of roadwork in walk for rehab purposes. Although he wasn't very happy about it initially he learnt to cope hacking alone & even learnt to enjoy it although I'm sure he'd still have preferred to go everywhere with a friend (mainly so he could wind them up!). He used to try & put his own bridle on & nudge at his saddle to make me put it on faster so think he was still fairly happy to be in work.

 

[Winters100]

It is an interesting question, because I suppose most would choose to stay in the paddock rather than being ridden or transported to competitions. Personally, rightly or wrongly, I justify it by thinking that they are fit and healthy, have the best life that I can give them, and that if this means that they have to work for a short part of the day then they still have a good deal. I would not force a horse to do something that caused distress, but if I was looking at a horse which traveled well, but would prefer to stay in the paddock, then I would not be overly concerned.

Ycbm, you are an experienced and kind owner, and you would know if you were causing distress, which does not sound to be the case. I am quite sure that the horse will continue to have a good life with you, and if that means occasionally going in the lorry and not having the best day of his life it is still a very good life for him.

 

[milliepops]

Fell doesn’t like to hack alone and having had a horse in the past that lived to hack for hours a day alone, I didn’t realise a few years back what a big ask it was for some. So I started doing the normal thing of riding through it etc but neither of us was having fun. Last year I started to train up the Exmoor as a pack pony, and we go on walking hacks (Fell seems to love this) and hopefully this year we will start ponying the Exmoor. Or maybe ride the Exmoor and pony the Fell lol, as Exmoor is more whizzy.

My Welsh hates hacking (is not just nappy,but actually sad about it!) especially solo and I also tried to get her through it initially, if that's all I had done with her I'd have missed out on her other talents and aptitudes. I think as a horsey community in the uk we put a lot of importance on hacking, and coming from an eventing background it was previously pretty much non negotiable to me, but this horse illustrated to me that some just aren't cut out for it .

A homebody indeed. Once I accepted that she absolutely flourished in the stuff she was good at.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Mimosa would rather not have her saddle on. It’s a hangover from the few weeks where she had one where the shape didn’t suit her so the girth chafed near her elbow - this one fits beautifully. But I can see her eyes get a bit like a sad spaniel when I fetch the saddle.

She doesn’t react, move, object or act out in any way. More sad spaniel and big sighs - sort of “if you must”.

Once it’s on, she loves her work and she’s bright and happy.

I feel like it’s similar me putting on a bra when dressing for work in the morning. A very minor but necessary discomfort, soon forgotten.

If I felt she really didn’t enjoy something and I was forcing her into something that was making her miserable then I would not do it. But then I am lucky that my horses can be utterly useless paddock decorations if they choose, and I can still accommodate them.

 

[Flowerofthefen]

I have the same dilemma myself! See yesterday's thread. Other horses I've had, it never crossed my mind that they were unhappy travelling - they just loaded easily, travelled well and happy when they got there. This one is not happy. He loads, OK, travels OK but clearly anxious and a bit sweaty and wants to go home. I've done a lot of training with him but he still doesn't like it. I've also had to work really hard to get the right saddle for him and back right off on training but he does now seem happy ridden for short sessions and we can build on that.

So are some horses just more sensitive than others or we do we get more connected to some horses and can feel what they are thinking more? Or do they wrap us round their little "fingers" and get away with not doing what we want by pulling on our emotions?

Currently looking for an elderly well-behaved travelling companion pony to solve the issue. Shame you are the other end of the country - perhaps our sensitive souls could have "bunked" up for travelling!

A friends horse loaded and travelled OK but got sweaty on board. He has now been diagnosed with pssm1 and being tested for type 2 and other various things. His sweating was due to pain.

 

[Caol Ila]

Foinavon is still a bit funny about tack being thrown at him. I have a system. He gets a tiny handful of pony nuts in his feed pan when I put the saddle on. Then, I give him a tidbit of whatever when I throw the reins over his head. He doesn't mind taking the bit (he lowers his head), but he has a moment of worry at the reins coming for him. Bribes = no worries. I don't care if it's unconventional.

 

[blitznbobs]

I dont want to go to the cinema (to see another f’ing superhero film), soft play, freezing cold rugby pitch but i do it cos my kids want me to… im not keen on laundry but i do it cos it is part of what i need to do… i dont hate it, im not scared of it , i just dont enjoy it — horses have to do a couple of hours a day of things they may not choose to do so that they can have food, clean bedding, clothing, medical care, pedicures, grooming, etc etc… seems like a very fair trade off to me…

 

[blitznbobs]

Also my cob (who is the greediest horse in the world ever) would prefer it if i let him have free run of the hay shed, feed room, and, in the summer, big grassy field - he has show this desire by breaking into said places on more thsn one occasion— if i let him have free rein he’d be even fatter thsn he is and I would quite rightly be deemed an irresponsible or even cruel owner… doing what you want requires the ability to make bad decisions as well as good… and im sure horses dont have the cognitive ability to think these things through fully.

 

[meleeka]

Having thought about this further while doing the horses tonight I think if he really minded he’d let you know. My own horses will tell me if they really aren’t happy about something being asked of them and then I’ll try and improve that where I can. It might be that he’d rather not, given the choice, but will do as you ask because it’s not that bad.

 

[Lois Lame]

I've been musing about some of the threads about cruelty, and I've got a genuine situation which I would love to know other people's views on.

I own a horse who will not touch his food if he sees or hears me go anywhere near the van before he has finished his breakfast, or if the ramp is left open. I would not be able to catch him if he saw me do the van first. It's very clear that he does not want to be taken away from home. He gets in it seemingly perfectly happily and travels really well, but it nags me that it's so obvious that if it was his choice he would never go anywhere in it. He does it for me, because I ask him to.

I sometimes wonder what right I have to ask him to do something he makes it so clear he doesn't want to do, even though he does it willingly when asked. Views?
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I see that as some kind of a stress thing, whether that be anticipation, excitement, unwillingness; I don't know. But it would make me leave things well alone so that he can finish his breakfast in peace.

As for should he be taken anywhere, I can't tell from what you describe that he is against it, but even if he were, I probably wouldn't let that interfere with my wish to go and do with him what I wanted to go and do. He would have to give me more evidence for me to change my mind.

 

[Lois Lame]

I think it's very easy for people to make excuses as there are on this thread. Does the horse enjoy it once he is there, is he just excited not stressed etc etc
One could look at it that those are excuses because people want to take their horse to X and that means travelling. It is easy to look at it that "I want to go and it doesn't seem to make the horse that bothered so he can't be suffering that much" to justify it to themselves.

One could look at it like that, or one could look at it like: perhaps YCBM's horse is highly strung. Perhaps, when he sees that something is afoot, he gets excited. I can imagine being like that myself, if I were a horse.

 

[Mule]

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[Mule]

Foinavon is still a bit funny about tack being thrown at him. I have a system. He gets a tiny handful of pony nuts in his feed pan when I put the saddle on. Then, I give him a tidbit of whatever when I throw the reins over his head. He doesn't mind taking the bit (he lowers his head), but he has a moment of worry at the reins coming for him. Bribes = no worries. I don't care if it's unconventional.

I do the same. Mine has a nebuliser. He gets a treat before I put it on and after I take it off. He now sticks his nose in the nebuliser as soon as he sees it. It makes no sense to me not to take advantage of his love for treats.

 

[twobearsarthur]

This thread has been so so helpful for an anxiety/feeling of guilt I’ve been experiencing since I bought my latest youngster. So thank you YCBM
I’ve never had these feelings before, I’ve never second guessed what I was doing with my youngsters for the past 30+ years but with B I have this overwhelming feeling (a lot) that he would rather be in the field/barn with his friends and I’m making him do things he wouldn’t choose to do.
I know this is totally unreasonable. I bought a horse to “do things” with not for him to live the life of Riley with his mates so to speak. But I still get this overwhelming (ridiculous) feeling of guilt. For example he isn’t right keen on being wormed, I can feel guilty for a good 24 hrs after I’ve had to worm him!!!
Maybe it’s because I’m older and more introspective than I used to be, maybe it’s because he’s so amenable and will go along with whatever I ask of him even if he isn’t keen. I have no idea. But this thread has really clarified in my mind that I’m being ridiculous. I’m not a mean owner I try my best for him and sometimes he will have to do things he isn’t keen on I just need to make those things as comfortable as possible. Sometimes I wish I was a teenager who didn’t think so much again lol!!!

 

[SEL]

A friends horse loaded and travelled OK but got sweaty on board. He has now been diagnosed with pssm1 and being tested for type 2 and other various things. His sweating was due to pain.

My PSSM 1 horse struggles to travel. The vets took her muscle enzymes after 45 mins on a lorry and CK was over 1000. Travelling is a workout for horses which might be why some dislike it

 

[cauda equina]

I wonder how much of this is an age (of the rider) thing

When I was a kid I loved whizzing about and trying to be competitive
Now I'm old I appreciate the relationship I have with my horses much more, and am far more willing to take their preferences into account
It's still me who makes all the the decisions but when making them I don't just think about what I want
Giving up competing has taken a lot of pressure off all of us too

 

[Cocorules]

Mine get to have some of their own preferences but not all.

I have one that made it clear she didn't like rugs so she doesn't get rugged. Another will quite often have a preference out riding to go up high rather than along a valley. It is like riding a mountain goat sometimes.

They don't though get the choice not to be ridden, nor can they eat as much as they like and they will be caught for various reasons. However, it is not just me inflicting this on them, the one that is not the boss gets second choice of food, where to shelter and where to stand. She gets told where to go by the other one too sometimes.

 

[Griffin]

I think it depends on why you are asking a horse to do something. My mare hates vets with a passion and if I could make it so she never had to see vets, I would. However, she has to be vaccinated, so we both have to accept that for five minutes every year, we are both going to be upset.

She is not a huge fan of travelling but loads easily. I do try to reduce how often we travel (it's very rare) but sometimes she has to get in the horsebox e.g. she couldn't walk when we moved yards because it was too far.

I try to make her life as lovely as possible but occasionally we all have to do things we don't want to for really good reasons.

 

[Peglo]

My Welsh hates hacking (is not just nappy,but actually sad about it!) especially solo and I also tried to get her through it initially, if that's all I had done with her I'd have missed out on her other talents and aptitudes. I think as a horsey community in the uk we put a lot of importance on hacking, and coming from an eventing background it was previously pretty much non negotiable to me, but this horse illustrated to me that some just aren't cut out for it .

A homebody indeed. Once I accepted that she absolutely flourished in the stuff she was good at.

My TB didn’t particularly enjoy hacking either. She was great to ride in the field and jumped everything I pointed her at but I’m sad to say I didn’t make the most of it at the time. I mostly hacked her and we argued a lot. If I could go back I absolutely would not force hacking and make the most of her like of going round in circles. We both would have benefited from me listening to my horse.

Very interesting topic @ycbm and something I’ve thought a lot about with my new one. My TB is very bonded with my old haffie and would stress if I separated them, even if she could still see her (haffie couldn’t care less) So I will just not bother separating them. I will keep them together. But they are old and won’t be going anywhere. Tali I will try and push her slightly out of her comfort zone to help build her confidence but I’m not prepared to cause her visual stress just because I want to do something.

 

[ycbm]

I wonder how much of this is an age (of the rider) thing

Speaking personally, a lot, I think. Though the horse world, and I think the whole animal world, is moving in the same direction since research has made it obvious just how sentient most animals are.

But the younger me would definitely have said "he travels fine, what's the issue" whereas now I ask myself what he's really feeling.
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[eahotson]

Foinavon has lived wild, and he is a keen bean to get into his stable when the weather is pants. But he also hates the 'round ups' that happen when yard staff catch horses, so I will owe fellow liveries my firstborn child in order to be sure friends can bring him in when I can't.

Gypsum's opinion counted for a lot. If she took an irrational dislike to a yard, your only option was to move. Otherwise, she would fencewalk. She liked it when people understood her. The staff at my current yard told me she liked having "slaves," and I said, "Yes, I'm aware. I am Slave #1." But they were happy with that. So was she. The YO who'd chucked us off her property two weeks beforehand would never think of herself as a slave to an imperious mare. Gypsum had lots of views, and I did my best to accomodate that.

Hermosa still thinks she wants to be pregnant and barefoot, so I am working on dissuading her of that as a career choice. I'm not a complete sucker.

I have got my first mare.I find that she is good at expressing her wishes and I think that she too likes slaves.!

 

[Trouper]

A lot of horses' first experiences of travelling are of being moved from home to home and I think that anxiety can remain in some of the more sensitive ones, however often you load up to go and do "interesting things" and then come home again.
Call me bonkers if you like but I always tell my animals what is happening and that we are coming home again - especially for trips to the vets!

 

[smolmaus]

I had a lot of guilt when I first moved Sadie. Both her and her sister were miserable to be apart, Martha for much longer than Sadie, she never really settled without her. Attempts were made to find them a home together but nobody suited so that is some comfort. Martha found herself a companion home last week and seems to be doing much better in a new environment but I think I will always be guilty about splitting them up.

It's hard to know if I let any of this spill over into what little "training" we do. She is a biddable little creature but her response to not understanding is to stop and look confused which could be very easily confused for being stubborn so I balk at applying the kind of "pressure" other people might do. I don't want anyone else to touch her in case they force her into doing things she doesn't understand but I don't have the skills required to explain everything. I want doing things to be fun for both of us but all she wants in life is a full haynet or a grassy verge. At least it's nice to know I'm not the only person struggling.

 

[scruffyponies]

If only it were that simple. Horses are naturally quite neurotic. Most will naturally avoid any change, and have little self-confidence away from their herd. If they never overcome this anxiety because they never do anything they 'don't want to', does that make them happier?

 

[ycbm]

If they never overcome this anxiety because they never do anything they 'don't want to', does that make them happier?

Good question!
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[Antw23uk]

I often watch a youtuber and they have genuinely convinced themselves there horse is excited to go out to a competition. The mare will pace and paw at the ground tied on the yard and at the mere site of the trailer she tanks off with the owner away from the trailer she is supposed to be 'excited' to go on .... and when on she is a pawing, sweaty mess ... apparently this is her being excited to go out.

I just see a stressed anxious horse so at least call it for what it is! She goes well at competitions and travels fine once on but i often think has the owner convinced herself and the camera that the horse is excited or does she know deep down that its stress and anxiety but doesnt want to say anything as ethically it opens up this exact question you pose OP? An interesting one and a dilemma i have myself at the moment as well

 

[MotherOfChickens]

My Welsh hates hacking (is not just nappy,but actually sad about it!) especially solo and I also tried to get her through it initially, if that's all I had done with her I'd have missed out on her other talents and aptitudes. I think as a horsey community in the uk we put a lot of importance on hacking, and coming from an eventing background it was previously pretty much non negotiable to me, but this horse illustrated to me that some just aren't cut out for it .

A homebody indeed. Once I accepted that she absolutely flourished in the stuff she was good at.

trouble is, I bought him as a hack-I love to hack! I also didnt have any facilities. But am over it now, and if I can get them safe and happy together thats great. If not, we'll all go out in hand and enjoy our Trec obstacles and shooting at targets.

As for getting them happy on their own-I do get that its a life skill but where I live, there are no other horses-literally none, noone I can ride with and no other horses they can see out and about. So I do think its a big ask. Each of them is taken away from the other to work and go on solo in hand hacks. I have plans this year to take one/both on escorted hacks in the Lakes, they both travel well and I will hire a van. Am also in negotiations with OH on getting another but frankly am priced out of the market right now.