Horses and having children on yards....thoughts?

Did anyone see the episode of '24 hours in A & E' where a toddler had been kicked in the head by a horse? By their own horse as I recall. The child survived but it was touch and go. I don't like children particularly but would be devastated if one was injured by my horse. There is a fair chance, in this ridiculously litigious world, that the horse owner would somehow be held accountable as well.
 
I think we were very lucky when we were on a livery yard.
We were there with my kids' ponies and my horse. There were a few other kids. The parents did try to make sure kids behaved and kept out of the way of those who were not wanting to be around children. Certainly no toy tractors or zooming around on bikes!

I have to say, the liveries there were fantastic. There were some (kids got to know which ones) who would never mind being asked a question, and were really encouraging. My girls learned a lot from being there and watching other people.

There were plenty of clinics too and children and adults would both take part. I think we were lucky though - it was such a great setup. I suspect that if there had been any tearaway kids they would not have been welcomed. It worked because people (most of the time) respected each other's space.
 
As a teacher, I wish that parents would take responsibility for the children's safety and behaviour, wherever they are. I am not on a livery yard but am absolutely fed up of seeing small children zooming around unsupervised in cafes where customers and staff are carrying hot food/drinks and in busy supermarkets and shops, getting in every-one's way. Why do people allow their children to use scooters or trainers with wheels to go shopping? And as for allowing them to play in carparks.............. Surely if I can see the danger those children are in, their parents can too. Do they just not care - or is it that some parents have the attitude that everyone else should take responsibility for their children?
 
Pearlsasinger said:
. Do they just not care - or is it that some parents have the attitude that everyone else should take responsibility for their children?
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Haha, and then when you do take responsibility for their children and tell the little darlings that their actions are dangerous? The parents go mad at you for "telling off" their child.

I honestly think that a lot of people are incapable of seeing risk at all. And then get defensive and embarrassed when it is pointed out to them.
 
In my opinion the safety of the child should come before the needs of the adult. I do have sympathy for parents who don't have the childcare they need so have no choice but to bring young children to the livery yards whilst they are doing jobs. Toddlers I think are particularly vulnerable as they are curious and active. There may be horses on the yard that are not safe for young children to be around.

Riding school & pony club will have people trained in safeguardIng children & first aid & hopefully the ponies & horses will suitable for children as well. If you keep your horses at home then you know all your horses and can make adjustments to keep your child safe & don't have to worry about other liveries not being able to control their horses.

My pony is excellent with children but unfortunately a child kicked a football at his head so now he is scared of football's so someone playing with a football on a yard might cause him to react in an unsafe way. I think on livery yards the problem is you cant guarantee another livery's horse will be safe around children. Unfortunately if a child does have an accident on the yard the parent may blame other liveries rather admitting that they were taking a risk bringing the child on the yard on the yard in the first place.
 
Having horses is a lifestyle choice, so to some extent, is having children. What an awful lot of people need to understand is that you actually cannot have it all. Livery yards are not places where it is reasonable to have unsupervised, or partially supervised children. The main point of a livery yard is to keep horses, that is why they exist. If you cannot get childcare for when you are dealing with your horse, then you may have to rethink your lifestyle choices imo
 
YorksG said:
Having horses is a lifestyle choice, so to some extent, is having children. What an awful lot of people need to understand is that you actually cannot have it all. Livery yards are not places where it is reasonable to have unsupervised, or partially supervised children. The main point of a livery yard is to keep horses, that is why they exist. If you cannot get childcare for when you are dealing with your horse, then you may have to rethink your lifestyle choices imo
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This 100% both are choices
 
YorksG said:
Having horses is a lifestyle choice, so to some extent, is having children. What an awful lot of people need to understand is that you actually cannot have it all. Livery yards are not places where it is reasonable to have unsupervised, or partially supervised children. The main point of a livery yard is to keep horses, that is why they exist. If you cannot get childcare for when you are dealing with your horse, then you may have to rethink your lifestyle choices imo
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So having had a child, and perhaps not having the childcare help you may have thought you would do you suggest selling your horse rather than taking your child on occasion?
 
Tiddlypom said:
Learned as a closely supervised child at home, at a RS, at school and at Pony Club.

I feel sorry for so many young kids today. They are just another commitment to be juggled, rather than being at the centre of their parents' world.
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Yes my poor child ;) he is the centre of my world 90% of the time and the other 10% he has to come with my while I shop, watch (and help/hinder) while I do housework, work, walk the dogs, occasionally come to the yard (which he loves), run errands for our business etc - the world cannot revolve around him all the time and if it did I wonder what sort of child I would be raising? He has numerous activities we go to that are entirely for his entertainment but he is a very content child and doesn't need constant 'entertaining' to be happy, he is often very happy just chilling with a little book for an hour!
When I was young me and my brothers and sisters had to go to all sorts of places with my parents, my dad was a lorry driver and sometimes I had to go away for weeks at a time with him in the lorry because there was no other choice. I was happy as larry to tag along and be with them and that's just what kids have to do some of the time!
I also see a lot of mums that have children and give up their former selves completely, they don't have their jobs, their social lives etc etc and spiral into loneliness and depression, that is much more common that I realised and have only realised that since I became a mum, so would I ask a mum that had a baby to 'reconsider' having horses as well as everything else a mum has to sacrifice for her child, no bloody way.
 
Well we have two yard owners children on your yard, lots of dogs that race past horses legs barking as if they are going to kill something and the relief lady who does the yard when YO is away has a 3 year old who has no fear of horses. YO's children will often run screaming down the yard behind our horses, dogs often do the same barking at nothing but at full speed, 3 year old brings tiny plastic buckets of water up to horses noses because he just loves them and has no fear and to be absolutely honest ................ I think it is a fabulous despooker for horses - when mine first moved to the yard he was on high alert - I noticed a couple of days ago that five mastiff dogs ran full spelt past his back legs whilst he was tied up barking as though the devil was about to enter the gate - and he didn't move a muscle. Personally .............. I think in this day an age horses have got to get used to everything, and I personally am pleased that at my yard, children screeching past him cause him no reaction and nor do dogs or bicycles, or the other myriad of stuff that comes with kids. Horses are very kind with small children and for me, I don't have an issue with it at all - in fact, I am almost grateful that he has got so much calmer with so much 'stuff' going on around him.
 
Farma said:
So having had a child, and perhaps not having the childcare help you may have thought you would do you suggest selling your horse rather than taking your child on occasion?
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If you cannot organise for your child to be looked after in a safe environment then that may indeed have to happen. If your hobby was driving formula one cars, would you leave the child in the garage/pit area while you continued with your hobby, if you couldn't get childcare? Horse owning is not a right.
 
Farma said:
Yes my poor child ;) he is the centre of my world 90% of the time and the other 10% he has to come with my while I shop, watch (and help/hinder) while I do housework, work, walk the dogs, occasionally come to the yard (which he loves), run errands for our business etc - the world cannot revolve around him all the time and if it did I wonder what sort of child I would be raising? He has numerous activities we go to that are entirely for his entertainment but he is a very content child and doesn't need constant 'entertaining' to be happy, he is often very happy just chilling with a little book for an hour!
When I was young me and my brothers and sisters had to go to all sorts of places with my parents, my dad was a lorry driver and sometimes I had to go away for weeks at a time with him in the lorry because there was no other choice. I was happy as larry to tag along and be with them and that's just what kids have to do some of the time!
I also see a lot of mums that have children and give up their former selves completely, they don't have their jobs, their social lives etc etc and spiral into loneliness and depression, that is much more common that I realised and have only realised that since I became a mum, so would I ask a mum that had a baby to 'reconsider' having horses as well as everything else a mum has to sacrifice for her child, no bloody way.
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But perhaps, rather than putting the child at risk, Mum should pay for assistance on the livery yard at the times when no childcare is available. Certainly what no parent should do, is expect others on the yard to take responsibility for their child, when the parent has taken the horse back to the field, several hundred yards down the road, or gone out for a hack, or is in the arena concentrating on schooling, unless there is a proper arrangement for someone to do so. The children are the parents' responsibility.
 
YorksG said:
If you cannot organise for your child to be looked after in a safe environment then that may indeed have to happen. If your hobby was driving formula one cars, would you leave the child in the garage/pit area while you continued with your hobby, if you couldn't get childcare? Horse owning is not a right.
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One of my horses is unsound and unsaleable - perhaps I should shoot that one?
 
Pearlsasinger said:
But perhaps, rather than putting the child at risk, Mum should pay for assistance on the livery yard at the times when no childcare is available. Certainly what no parent should do, is expect others on the yard to take responsibility for their child, when the parent has taken the horse back to the field, several hundred yards down the road, or gone out for a hack, or is in the arena concentrating on schooling, unless there is a proper arrangement for someone to do so. The children are the parents' responsibility.
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Who ever said someone should take responsibility for someone elses child? I take mine on occasion and he is entirely in my care, I pay a fortune for services but I couldn't pay entirely for full livery and I don't want to. I have never ridden with my child there although I have heard of parents that do it isn't something I feel comfortable doing. I have to do minimal jobs at times and go again, he loves and I love to see him enjoying it.
 
Farma said:
Who ever said someone should take responsibility for someone elses child? I take mine on occasion and he is entirely in my care, I pay a fortune for services but I couldn't pay entirely for full livery and I don't want to. I have never ridden with my child there although I have heard of parents that do it isn't something I feel comfortable doing. I have to do minimal jobs at times and go again, he loves and I love to see him enjoying it.
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There are several instances of parents expecting other liveries to take responsibility for their children, that I know of. If your child is always under your close supervision, then I doubt that there is any problem on your yard but that does make me wonder why you started the thread.
 
G&T said:
Well yes I understand it's for the parents' own convenience, that doesn't make it fair on the kids though. I'm not talking about the odd time at the yard, or just on school holidays like the other lady mentioned, that's fair enough. It's parents who are on diy so have to do the horse twice a day, and their completely uninterested child has no choice but to go with them, every day - in my experience those are the kids who end up being a pain to everyone else in the yard because they are just bored to tears. If you choose to have a child shouldn't they take some priority over your existing hobbies? Horses take up a hell of a lot of time.
By the way this isn't aimed at the OP who has said her son loves being at the yard and pottering around with her. That's great! But I have seen plenty of parents who are frankly selfish expecting their kids to just fit around them and their expensive time consuming hobby.
On the original question, I think kids are great, particularly kids that are into ponies, and wouldn't mind them on my yard at all. The biggest nightmares in livery yards I've been on in the past have all been adults over 30 that behave like kids!
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I never said it was right or fair or that I agreed with it. I was just answering your question of why people do it.

If I had a disinterested child and wasn't willing to give up my horse, and I couldn't leave the child with anyone else while I went to the stables, I'd have the horses situation set up such that I could be done in the bare minimum of time and I'd not let the child run riot while I was doing everything. If I was going to ride, clip, fill up a weeks worth of haynets, dig out deep litter bed or something the child would have to be left at home with someone else, or if that wasn't an option at all there would have to be part livery/a sharer to exercise the horse and help with chores/a freelance groom to clip it etc. Or if I usually had childcare while I went to the stables, but that had gone wrong that day for some reason, I'd pay the stables to do the horse.

I've seen it done successfully with parents taking their young children to the stables daily to see to a horse on DIY livery, but those children were well behaved enough that they didn't cause anybody else a problem or were a danger to themselves and the parents found a system that worked for them/their horse and had it down to a fine art.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
There are several instances of parents expecting other liveries to take responsibility for their children, that I know of. If your child is always under your close supervision, then I doubt that there is any problem on your yard but that does make me wonder why you started the thread.
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No need to wonder or seemingly assume anything, as I said I have moved and upon looking for a yard the area I am now in has an unbelievable amount of yards that don't accept children it was shock as I didn't come across this in the area I was previously or in the last 30 years of owning horses. The feeling I had having being told I couldn't move onto a yard if my child ever had to come with me wasn't something I expected to come across, that is why I started this thread.
 
bluedanube said:
Sad tale. If parents value their children, why put them in danger?
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I haven't seen anyone put their children in danger, but I guess horses are dangerous and unpredictable animals, so are dogs but people don't get rid of their dogs as soon as they have kids.
 
Farma said:
I haven't seen anyone put their children in danger, but I guess horses are dangerous and unpredictable animals, so are dogs but people don't get rid of their dogs as soon as they have kids.[/QUOTE

Some people DO get rid of their dogs when they have kids. I have a little jack Russell who is the best dog in the world who was free to whoever came first to pick him up just because the woman had a baby.
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So what do you do with the toddler while caring for your horse? There were a couple of us that were interested.

I really don't see the issue with having adults only yards, and being told so on enquiry, I think this thread shows that there is plenty of demand for such a set up so it seems a fine business model. It isn't an 'unbelievable amount of yards' if they get sufficient clientel in the area.
 
teddypops said:
Farma said:
I haven't seen anyone put their children in danger, but I guess horses are dangerous and unpredictable animals, so are dogs but people don't get rid of their dogs as soon as they have kids.[/QUOTE

Some people DO get rid of their dogs when they have kids. I have a little jack Russell who is the best dog in the world who was free to whoever came first to pick him up just because the woman had a baby.
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And cats. I know of several people who got rid of their cat when they had a baby as they were afraid the cat would accidentally smother the child.
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ester said:
So what do you do with the toddler while caring for your horse? There were a couple of us that were interested.

I really don't see the issue with having adults only yards, and being told so on enquiry, I think this thread shows that there is plenty of demand for such a set up so it seems a fine business model. It isn't an 'unbelievable amount of yards' if they get sufficient clientel in the area.
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I did answer that many pages back, of course its up to the yard it was just a shock to me when I moved as I said I never came across it and have always been on yards where people bought their kids and never gave it a second thought, when I moved and came across so many having had a baby it was very deflating, not a nice feeling at all when I know I am a responsible mum and horse owner, I have somewhere now but if I lived where I used to I would never have noticed this, having read this thread it does appear that a lot of horsey folk don't want children on yards for numerous reasons.
 
Oh, I did check and have been watching for the reply and have checked again and cannot see it since I asked the other day or before other than you saying he is in your care, could you tell me the post number please as I obviously missed it.

I guess as I don't have one I cannot quite fathom bringing a horse in from the field with toddler in tow etc.
 
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seen some people have little one in carriers when they bring horses in but i do think thats dangerous

far better to park your car in sight of the field and leave them safely strapped in the carseat for the few minutes it takes to bring in
 
My friend who has now moved away evented to a high level while towing around 2 small kids, juggling breast feeding etc, she had a blog around it and I found it quite inspiring even though I didn't have kids at the time, so did many other people hence the successful blog and she wrote the most fascinating posts on the training section of h&h, I felt nothing but admiration for her, I don't think I ever saw a negative post around how she managed her 2 kids or that she shouldn't have them around horses, around the yard or that other event riders minded her having them around, she was at a huge well known competition yard too. Again that goes to add that I just hadn't seen the other side to it until I had my own child. I wanted to add that as if any other mums are reading some of these posts I would hate them to see so much negativity and hopefully they wont feel the need to totally avoid mixing the 2, they just need to find the right environment :)
 
I do have a lot of sympathy for those who find that they do not have the support and childcare options that they thought they would when they decided to have children and cannot afford to pay for childcare. Quite a few of my non horsey friends have ended up as single mothers and life is not easy so adding a horse to the mix could be really tricky to balance not just time wise but financially.

There is a market for childfree yards so maybe there could be a market for yards which are really child friendly. Perhaps with a designated area for children to play safely and an after school/holiday club that parents could use. Parents who perhaps were unable to afford childcare could perhaps support each other so one person keeps an eye on the kids so that another can catch in or do some jobs and the other person return the favour.
 
OrangeAndLemon said:
Is it 'children' that are the problem or unsupervised children?
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It's the unsupervised that are the issue. Whether that's the bored toddler (who wanders off) or the 'helpful' 5 year old, it's not quite so bad if in the pushchair 'can you just keep an eye on little darling while I go and poo pick the field/ride/am gone for an hour' or the older pre-teen or young immature teen 'your (3 or 4 years older) child can go for a hack with mine today' erm REALLY? When their child cannot understand simple instructions like 'do not get too far ahead', or 'wait at the end of the bridleway' or 'go LEFT because that field will be far too muddy' largely because they have no control over their pony, it's very unfair to expect mine to supervise when you cannot be bothered to hack with them yourself (because you also know how difficult it is to supervise your child).

I have no problem with properly supervised children: mine was that child once.
 
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