Horses and having children on yards....thoughts?

GemG said:
Well obviously if it were a 'no' children yard in the first place, I wouldn't be there in the first place. I'm not a complete idiot.
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So I don't understand why you think you would be asked to leave if you took a child there?

This was what you wrote

'I would feel (rightly or wrongly) unfairly treated if I had to leave somewhere because I brought my children with me sometimes.'
 
The catch 22 on this thread is that those of us who chose not to have children did so because we did not want the responsibly of children, and many of us because we don't want to be around children. That means that we can completely understand why parents want to bring their children, because we worked out that's what the situation would be if we had them, and did not want it.

But on the reverse side, most of those who have them seem completely unable to understand why, however well behaved the children may be, the intentionally childless would want adult only yards. Personally, I believe that this is part of nature's defence mechanism. Once you have children, you can't just get rid of them, and mental health depends on maintaining the belief that they are a positive thing. For some parents includes an inability to see why, for many other people, parenting would not have been a positive thing.

I have met two parents in my life who said, and meant it, that they wished they had never had them. They were both very unhappy people..
 
ycbm said:
So I don't understand why you think you would be asked to leave if you took a child there?

This was what you wrote

'I would feel (rightly or wrongly) unfairly treated if I had to leave somewhere because I brought my children with me sometimes.'
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My post perhaps didn't read the way I thought it was intended to sound... i apologise for that. I meant if I had to move from a yard if they became non child friendly. I did write that it was somewhere I brought my children sometimes, meaning I already had them (the children existed already) so it wouldn't be a non child yard in the first place would it, or I wouldn't have been allowed onto the yard initially! So it reads correct actually.

Yes, if that came into effect, that would be the rules and I would of course have to leave and move to some yummy mummy, litter ridden, disorganised, chaotic child 'friendly' yard, where kids and ponies run free and kids are swinging from the rafter.

I'm not explaining anymore as I have made my point, and said how I would feel, that's all.

Didn't expect to get jumped on quite so much.
 
No apology needed, I just didn't understand. I'd be cross too if I was on a yard that allowed children and got thrown off it because I took a child.

I wonder if anyone on this thread has actually had that happen to them, and what the circumstances were?
 
ycbm said:
The catch 22 on this thread is that those of us who chose not to have children did so because we did not want the responsibly of children, and many of us because we don't want to be around children. That means that we can completely understand why parents want to bring their children, because we worked out that's what the situation would be if we had them, and did not want it.

But on the reverse side, most of those who have them seem completely unable to understand why, however well behaved the children may be, the intentionally childless would want adult only yards. Personally, I believe that this is part of nature's defence mechanism. Once you have children, you can't just get rid of them, and mental health depends on maintaining the belief that they are a positive thing. For some parents includes an inability to see why, for many other people, parenting would not have been a positive thing.

I have met two parents in my life who said, and meant it, that they wished they had never had them. They were both very unhappy people..
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Absolutely.

My life would undoubtedly be easier without, less stress massively by far.. it is incredibly hard and the single most difficult thing I've ever done. If I'd known the exact realities, I wouldn't probably not have had any. But I do and I have ... and I will obviously do my best to be the best parent I can to them and we do have great times too. But it's incredibly draining and a difficult juggling act with horses. But I feel if I gave up the horses I would lose part of who I am. So it's hard to not take it personally when folk suggest, well folk 'get rid of dogs', - basically tough. If that makes sense.

I wasn't going to post again, but this thread struck a nerve. Damn it.
 
GemG said:
Absolutely.

My life would undoubtedly be easier without, less stress massively by far.. it is incredibly hard and the single most difficult thing I've ever done. If I'd known the exact realities, I wouldn't probably not have had any. But I do and I have ... and I will obviously do my best to be the best parent I can to them and we do have great times too. But it's incredibly draining and a difficult juggling act with horses. But I feel if I gave up the horses I would lose part of who I am. So it's hard to not take it personally when folk suggest, well folk 'get rid of dogs', - basically tough. If that makes sense.

I wasn't going to post again, but this thread struck a nerve. Damn it.
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But no one wants you to give up your horses, just to keep them on child friendly yards so that child free yards can remain child free. What I take issue with is those who seemed baffled by the notion of child free yards and that some people should want to be away from them.

The reason I don't want kids is because I know I would have to sacrifice the horse, and it's not something I am willing to do so pre empting the choice by choosing to remain child free. Knowing that as soon as you have kids the choice is taken away from you and it has to be the horse that gives.
 
GemG said:
Absolutely.

My life would undoubtedly be easier without, less stress massively by far.. it is incredibly hard and the single most difficult thing I've ever done. If I'd known the exact realities, I wouldn't probably not have had any. But I do and I have ... and I will obviously do my best to be the best parent I can to them and we do have great times too. But it's incredibly draining and a difficult juggling act with horses. But I feel if I gave up the horses I would lose part of who I am. So it's hard to not take it personally when folk suggest, well folk 'get rid of dogs', - basically tough. If that makes sense.

I wasn't going to post again, but this thread struck a nerve. Damn it.
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I hope I haven't come across as condemning parents who do take their children to yards. I think most parents who do it accept that it isn't an ideal situation a lot of the time but equally, parenthood is tough enough even without giving up all your other interests.

I've known some kids on yards who were smart, thoughtful and well-behaved, ages ranging from two to fifteen. They were supervised appropriately for their age and experience, and were as pleasant to be around as kids can be.

However, I'm simply not somebody who likes being around kids. And, unfortunately, kids seem to like being around me. (I blame it on being short.)

I'm not going to tell kids to bog off if they aren't doing anything wrong, but I don't want to spend hours answering questions and teaching them things, and I have no idea what the cues for "This conversation is over," are with children. I understand horse, cat, and adult body language, but children and dogs are a mystery to me!

So, given the choice, I'd opt for a yard where that simply isn't an issue because there aren't going to be any kids around.

I'd certainly never say that all children should be banned from all yards, but I don't think it should be so astonishing that there are yards where children aren't allowed. It's just one of those things to be taken into consideration when choosing a yard, along with turnout, school, hacking, etc.
 
Tiddlypom said:
Steady on, ycbm, don't lump all of us parents together. There are lots (most) of us who love, look after and cherish our children, and who do not regret having them!
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I wrote that post very carefully so that no-one could write this post! I have not lumped all parents together. Nature needs parents to love their children!
 
I am intentionally childless - mainly because I recognised the pitfalls from a very young age (older sister getting pregnant young etc).

Anyway - my last experience of children being on a yard thankfully was a positive one. This was a private small farm where the yard owner bred chickens and rented out a couple of stables for extra income. Her nieces helped out every weekend and school holiday. These kids were amazing - they all worked really hard and were just brilliant with the animals (and me lol). They really seemed to enjoy the hard work even though they were quite obviously giving up their weekends/holidays just to help their aunt run the farm. It was a magical place as a result.

My experience before that however was horrible but the difference was that these places were big busy riding schools - where some (not all) parents would drop their kids off for the day and run away. It wasn't great because some of the kids were quite simply spoiled brats and their ponies appeared to be treated as 'fashion accessories'.

So now I have my horses at home - where the neighbour's 15 year old horse owning granddaughter is always welcome because she is the most delightful, level headed horsey person I've ever met!
 
ycbm said:
The catch 22 on this thread is that those of us who chose not to have children did so because we did not want the responsibly of children, and many of us because we don't want to be around children. That means that we can completely understand why parents want to bring their children, because we worked out that's what the situation would be if we had them, and did not want it.

But on the reverse side, most of those who have them seem completely unable to understand why, however well behaved the children may be, the intentionally childless would want adult only yards. Personally, I believe that this is part of nature's defence mechanism. Once you have children, you can't just get rid of them, and mental health depends on maintaining the belief that they are a positive thing. For some parents includes an inability to see why, for many other people, parenting would not have been a positive thing.

I have met two parents in my life who said, and meant it, that they wished they had never had them. They were both very unhappy people..
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ycbm said:
I wrote that post very carefully so that no-one could write this post! I have not lumped all parents together. Nature needs parents to love their children!
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Really, did you?

I do try not to respond to your posts but sometimes I can no longer sit on my hands.

You are completely ignoring the fact that some of us (like myself) do have children and yet can see why a "no kids" yard would be appealing. Just because you don't have/choose not to have children does not automatically mean you detest all children or contact with them. Equally, having children doesn't mean you automatically love all children or crave their company.

I can completely see why, from a safety aspect, having children (whether closely supervised or not) on a yard may be undesirable. Equally I can see that some yards are geared up for catering for children.

I see absolutely no reason why having children should mean giving up horses. I managed to have a couple and run a busy yard at the same time. I had my me time when I went hunting/competing and got somebody else to look after them, and I had my them time when I took them to pony club. It would never have occurred to me that it had to be horses OR children.

I am now on a yard completely by myself. No children and no adults either. And having read this thread, I'm beginning to think I'd rather have the children than the adults anyway ....

I feel incredibly sorry for any children whose parents wish they'd never had them :(
 
I avoided reading this for a few days because I knew exactly how this would go but work is quiet this afternoon so I took the plunge and you lot haven't disappointed me. People's intolerance for those who have made different life decisions from them are never more apparent than when kids are involved! I must admit I hate the term breeders (and now non-breeders). I believe it originated in the gay community as a derogatory term for straight people and given gay people are quite rightly offended by derogatory terms aimed at them, deliberately creating a derogatory term themselves is hypocritical to say the least.

I don't have kids myself but don't dislike them at all. I don't judge anybody for their decision to have them any more than I judge people who think a cup of tea is appropriate with food (actually I judge them less, hot drinks with meals are just plain wrong). My yard was unofficially kid free (it was just way it had worked out) until my friend got a pony for her son. He was 10 at the time (now 11) so not a young kid and is very polite, helpful, unassuming and unobtrusive. Even at 11, he's never left unsupervised and he adores all the horses and treats them with respect. The only thing I worry about for him is that as the only kid on the yard, he's missing out on the fun we used to have but I think that's true for most horsey kids these days - all their riding (and other activities for that matter) seems so organised and supervised.

One of the other liveries has a 6 month old baby whom she has to bring to the yard sometimes. She tries not to but it's not always possible. I wouldn't dream of making her life more difficult by kicking up a fuss about it and sat with her daughter the other day while she got her horse in as her husband was supposed to be meeting her to take the baby home but had got held up. I would probably have preferred to get the horse, but I think she wanted just the couple of minutes to herself that the walk to the field provided.

The reality is if we're on a livery yard we're always going to have to put up with things other people do that we don't like. A bit of tolerance and understanding on all sides would make it a much nicer experience for everyone.

Part of the reason I don't have kids is I recognise how bloody hard it can be - especially if you're trying to combine it with something as time consuming as horses - so if I can help a parent out now and again I'm happy to.
 
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I think it depends on the parents and the children tbh.

I've been on four yards where there were children. In three cases they were the YO's and were no problem at all. The fourth was a Riding school with hoards of children, especially at weekends... Again no problem, they used to groom the horses and run around doing odd jobs. The only time I was a bit concerned was when I turned up one day to find a small child actually UNDER our shire cross's belly brushing him, fortunately he took it in his stride.

Babies and small toddlers, though, I think are a problem as are badly behaved or rowdy children.
 
annagain said:
I avoided reading this for a few days because I knew exactly how this would go but work is quiet this afternoon so I took the plunge and you lot haven't disappointed me. People's intolerance for those who have made different life decisions from them are never more apparent than when kids are involved! I must admit I hate the term breeders (and now non-breeders). I believe it originated in the gay community as a derogatory term for straight people and given gay people are quite rightly offended by derogatory terms aimed at them, deliberately creating a derogatory term themselves is hypocritical to say the least.

I don't have kids myself but don't dislike them at all. I don't judge anybody for their decision to have them any more than I judge people who think a cup of tea is appropriate with food (actually I judge them less, hot drinks with meals are just plain wrong). My yard was unofficially kid free (it was just way it had worked out) until my friend got a pony for her son. He was 10 at the time (now 11) so not a young kid and is very polite, helpful, unassuming and unobtrusive. Even at 11, he's never left unsupervised and he adores all the horses and treats them with respect. The only thing I worry about for him is that as the only kid on the yard, he's missing out on the fun we used to have but I think that's true for most horsey kids these days - all their riding (and other activities for that matter) seems so organised and supervised.

One of the other liveries has a 6 month old baby whom she has to bring to the yard sometimes. She tries not to but it's not always possible. I wouldn't dream of making her life more difficult by kicking up a fuss about it and sat with her daughter the other day while she got her horse in as her husband was supposed to be meeting her to take the baby home but had got held up. I would probably have preferred to get the horse, but I think she wanted just the couple of minutes to herself that the walk to the field provided.

The reality is if we're on a livery yard we're always going to have to put up with things other people do that we don't like. A bit of tolerance and understanding on all sides would make it a much nicer experience for everyone.

Part of the reason I don't have kids is I recognise how bloody hard it can be - especially if you're trying to combine it with something as time consuming as horses - so if I can help a parent out now and again I'm happy to.
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Excellent post, and well said. I assume the anti parent bigots are also anti homosexuals, as obviously anyone with different life choices is just unbearable. The anti parent lot went way beyond saying they didn't want children on a yard and were totally vile. I am appalled.
 
Clodagh said:
Excellent post, and well said. I assume the anti parent bigots are also anti homosexuals, as obviously anyone with different life choices is just unbearable. The anti parent lot went way beyond saying they didn't want children on a yard and were totally vile. I am appalled.
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Well I certainly didn't and there were some equally vile comments from parents such as "anyone who doesn't like children must be a sociopath".

I don't think either party is guilt free here.

And I still maintain that there shouldn't be a problem if people with children go to child friendly yards and those who don't like kids go to child free yards. As long as both yards exist then I really don't see the issue here!
 
Abi90 said:
And I still maintain that there shouldn't be a problem if people with children go to child friendly yards and those who don't like kids go to child free yards. As long as both yards exist then I really don't see the issue here!
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I agreee with this. I just thought the vitriol was way excessive.
 
Clodagh said:
I agreee with this. I just thought the vitriol was way excessive.
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I can understand why people get emotional on both sides. On the child free front every time I got to see my husband's family I get told I'm weird, or not natural for not wanting kids. That I have to have them. And then the random cleaner at work telling me it's about time I had a baby ( I'm 27) and it becomes and unwanted intrusion because it's the social norm for people to have kids it is apparently fine to criticise people for not wanting them. Whereas it's not fine to criticise people with children because that is the social norm. Some of the comments were uncalled for but I see where the emotion comes from
 
Abi90 said:
Well I certainly didn't and there were some equally vile comments from parents such as "anyone who doesn't like children must be a sociopath".

I don't think either party is guilt free here.

And I still maintain that there shouldn't be a problem if people with children go to child friendly yards and those who don't like kids go to child free yards. As long as both yards exist then I really don't see the issue here!
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Going around being sensible about these things? That's not the HHO way!
 
Talking about people's obsession with quizzing women of a certain age when they don't have children. I am childless and I have no intention of having them, they just aren't my thing. I adore my close friends little ones, but i don't want my own.

A bloke in work has got me a few times and quizzed me quite intensely about why I don't want children. One time was in front of a load of people and another on my own. He has a child and I'm about the same age as his wife, so maybe he finds it weird that I don't want them. Anyway, I answered his questions and didn't think much more of it, then when he left a few of my friends (two who have children and one who doesn't) were absolutely fuming that he questioned me about it and that it was none of his business. I suppose it wasn't, but it didn't bother me really at the time.

However, thinking back, it was a bit rude of him. Its bad manners to ask how much a person earns, but apparently it's perfectly normal to ask a woman when she's going to reproduce. It's a weird world.
 
annagain said:
I avoided reading this for a few days because I knew exactly how this would go but work is quiet this afternoon so I took the plunge and you lot haven't disappointed me. People's intolerance for those who have made different life decisions from them are never more apparent than when kids are involved! I must admit I hate the term breeders (and now non-breeders). I believe it originated in the gay community as a derogatory term for straight people and given gay people are quite rightly offended by derogatory terms aimed at them, deliberately creating a derogatory term themselves is hypocritical to say the least.

I don't have kids myself but don't dislike them at all. I don't judge anybody for their decision to have them any more than I judge people who think a cup of tea is appropriate with food (actually I judge them less, hot drinks with meals are just plain wrong). My yard was unofficially kid free (it was just way it had worked out) until my friend got a pony for her son. He was 10 at the time (now 11) so not a young kid and is very polite, helpful, unassuming and unobtrusive. Even at 11, he's never left unsupervised and he adores all the horses and treats them with respect. The only thing I worry about for him is that as the only kid on the yard, he's missing out on the fun we used to have but I think that's true for most horsey kids these days - all their riding (and other activities for that matter) seems so organised and supervised.

One of the other liveries has a 6 month old baby whom she has to bring to the yard sometimes. She tries not to but it's not always possible. I wouldn't dream of making her life more difficult by kicking up a fuss about it and sat with her daughter the other day while she got her horse in as her husband was supposed to be meeting her to take the baby home but had got held up. I would probably have preferred to get the horse, but I think she wanted just the couple of minutes to herself that the walk to the field provided.

The reality is if we're on a livery yard we're always going to have to put up with things other people do that we don't like. A bit of tolerance and understanding on all sides would make it a much nicer experience for everyone.

Part of the reason I don't have kids is I recognise how bloody hard it can be - especially if you're trying to combine it with something as time consuming as horses - so if I can help a parent out now and again I'm happy to.
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Super post.....

I left having a family until fairly late (39) so had plenty of time to enjoy my horses and competing while I had no ties.

By the time I did, our horses were at home, so I've never been exposed to anti-children adults or livery yards..

Thankfully...

Fiona
 
Rowreach said:
Really, did you?

I do try not to respond to your posts but sometimes I can no longer sit on my hands.
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Yes. I littered it with conditional words like 'most', 'many' and 'some' so as to specifically allow for the fact that not all people feel the same way as other people. So I have no idea why you bothered to respond to this one.

I feel incredibly sorry for any children whose parents wish they'd never had them :(
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Doesn't everyone?
 
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My daughter has been coming to do the horses with me since she was in a pram. Once she started walking we had a rule that she sat on a bucket just outside my stable while I was mucking out, she wasn't allowed scooters or trikes or her bike as she got older unless there were no other horses in the yard. I never had a problem and she certainly never spooked a horse.

That said, I find peoples passion for tying their horses up outside their stable to do everything to the horse very strange, especially when it is cold during the winter or hot and full of flies in the summer. I muck out, tack up, brush, pull manes etc all with the horse in its stable which seems far easier to me than listening to them trample about bored and cold or hot and bothered by flies.

Horse tied outside their stables are the biggest danger to child obviously but if you have a young child on the yard you should be aware all the time exactly where they are to avoid the danger.
 
Doormouse said:
That said, I find peoples passion for tying their horses up outside their stable to do everything to the horse very strange, especially when it is cold during the winter or hot and full of flies in the summer. I muck out, tack up, brush, pull manes etc all with the horse in its stable which seems far easier to me than listening to them trample about bored and cold or hot and bothered by flies.

Horse tied outside their stables are the biggest danger to child obviously but if you have a young child on the yard you should be aware all the time exactly where they are to avoid the danger.
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I often tie my horse up outside the stable, especially for grooming. The dust and mud falls outside then and I can sweep up, rather than fall in the stable making it dusty. I also think it is easier to see in the daylight for plaiting etc and obviously I wash stable stains off outside. I also often leave the horse tied up outside while I muck out if I am doing a big muck out, sweeping under banks etc. Much less dusty for the horse. I think the horses like to be outside rather than being constantly pushed from side to side in a stable.
I certainly wouldnt be happy if I was on a yard where someone said I couldnt tie up outside because of another liveries child. It would be up to the parent to watch the child, it shouldnt prevent me doing my stable jobs the way I wanted to. After all, we probably would both be paying the same livery charge!
 
Mucking out and grooming in the stable can aggravate respiratory issues FWIW... I also like a bedding free floor when doing foot care... just a couple of reasons to bring a horse out.

On the other hand on yards I've been on with out of control kids I have limited my tieing up outside activities when I thought it was risky. So if a football was being kicked around for example, my horses stayed in stables.
 
Doormouse said:
That said, I find peoples passion for tying their horses up outside their stable to do everything to the horse very strange, especially when it is cold during the winter or hot and full of flies in the summer. I muck out, tack up, brush, pull manes etc all with the horse in its stable which seems far easier to me than listening to them trample about bored and cold or hot and bothered by flies.

.
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I on the other hand can’t understand why you haven’t taught your horse to stand quietly whilst tied up? Or have discovered the use of rugs for warmth or fly spray to get rid of flys.
It’s far easier to muck out a stable if the horse isn’t in it (perticularly if like mine they try and help) also it is not good for the horse to be in the stable when you disturb any dust in the bed, keeping them in whilst doing that results in coughs and vet bills.
when grooming a horse the dust generated is far better off out of the stable rather than settling in your bedding. Plaiting by daylight is much easier than by the one bulb at the front of the stable.
With them tied up outside if something goes wrong you have a lot more room to deal with the situation without getting trapped between the horse and a wall.
Finally if your horse won’t tie up and stand quietly then how on earth do you tack up at a competition?
 
scats said:
Talking about people's obsession with quizzing women of a certain age when they don't have children. I am childless and I have no intention of having them, they just aren't my thing. I adore my close friends little ones, but i don't want my own.

A bloke in work has got me a few times and quizzed me quite intensely about why I don't want children. One time was in front of a load of people and another on my own. He has a child and I'm about the same age as his wife, so maybe he finds it weird that I don't want them. Anyway, I answered his questions and didn't think much more of it, then when he left a few of my friends (two who have children and one who doesn't) were absolutely fuming that he questioned me about it and that it was none of his business. I suppose it wasn't, but it didn't bother me really at the time.

However, thinking back, it was a bit rude of him. Its bad manners to ask how much a person earns, but apparently it's perfectly normal to ask a woman when she's going to reproduce. It's a weird world.
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I totally agree, before having a baby I used to get asked so often it was ridiculous, it did seem that if you were in a relationship and of a certain age kids are automatically expected and it seemed that people you barely know to ask you such personal questions about that choice (or in some cases its not a choice). Now I have one I get asked constantly when the next one will be so it doesn't end, then when I say I am happy with one they will say oh you will have another like they know me and my child bearing capability better than I do, so it doesn't end!
 
I'm also wondering if more yards not allowing children stems from the discrepancy between the level of service people expect from livery and what people are willing to pay. A lot of yard owners have to cut corners wherever possible to avoid pricing themselves out of the market and, along with the nagging dread of an expensive lawsuit should a child be injured, getting enhanced DBS checks for staff etc are just expenses which eat into already meagre profits.

Edit: Could also be why you've only noticed it after moving to a new area; different prices/market etc?
 
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